Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Blocking intake heat riser
| Blocking intake heat riser [message #196833] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 07:57  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Ok, I've done as much research as I can although I'm sure there are more sites to dig through.
- I've found several treads that describe HOW to block the passages from pouring aluminum to installing block off plates.
- I understand that not blocking off the plates can result in the manifold heat boiling the gas from the carb (seen it on my own coach)
What I haven't been able to find is what happens to the original design functions of the GM engineers. As I think I understand, GM on most big block engines, wanted to heat the fuel air mixture to ensure better atomization. Without the heat, the fuel air mixture is inefficient with the cold engine...I assume the choke stays on longer to enrich the mixture??? So my question is really striving for understanding not questioning the wisdom of the folks who tell me I should do this.
I understand from some hot rodder friends that Olds (or perhaps aftermarket) had a phenolic spacer under the carb to address the excess heat problem. I know Chrysler made an entire phenolic carb (the Thermoquad) for this reason. Basically a Quadrajet but with a phenolic body. They worked great unless the body cracked or warped which was a problem. The secondaries were frigging HUGE and when you got your foot into it the Thermoquad on a 440 would moan like the hounds of hell and really go...while still getting decent mileage if you stayed on the little primaries. Again, similar but different from our Quadrajets.
Just wondering while waiting for the storm line to pass us by this morning. If there is a link to a discussion on this, please post it.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196841 is a reply to message #196836] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 09:25  |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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What I think I have learned from addressing this issue for years and finding it to be a good thing--- I first tried to fix the problem by heating up an intake on a Weber bbq grill to get the metal hot then had the crack brazed. I actually saw that intake again @ 5 years later and the crack came back. Then I tried melting zinc alloy because Lynn-- not Joe Mondello told me to do it. Found the zinc might actually melt out! Holy crap-- molten zinc passing through the engine can't be good! Then I stated in with the block-off plates wheich seem to hang in there well. I use the Mondello plates, Dick Patterson also makes a nice set.
I think in that the Toro intake which we use being the only "concave" intake manifold GM or anyone for that matter ever designed-- I think someone missed the concept of additional heat created when "bending" the hot exh. gasses to go under the middle of the intake. Whenever you bend hot gases like that, the point where the gases bend will get very hot. This point is directly under the carb. The thin wall between the huge secondary ports must just form a crack at it's thinnest point because that's exactly what we find in just about every intake we see. From that I surmize that if your intake is not sporting a crack there that at some point it will in that we have seen just sooooo many that way. I feel because this is the only one ever made this way and the fact that we are hammering our motors really hard carring our turtle shell that the combination creates an "unexpected result".
The crack is no problem until it reaches the floor of the vacuum side of the intake. At that point, the crack will allow the hot exh. gasses to contaminate the intake vacuum and of course when you loose vacuum a carb motor is done. I have also seen this play hell with FI systems. I will say I have seen FI systems with a hanus crack that would still run --- badly but still run.
Bottom line is I feel this is a needed modification for a motor gong into a GMC. We do this mod on every motor we produce with 100% results. No vacuum issues means something must be working. Yanking the "valley pan" and the sketchy sealing qualities they have in favor of a fiber intake gasket set is also a great improvement. You must have the valley pan (or turkey tray) in place if you have hot exh. gasses flowing through the intake. There are "cookies" of burned oil in your motor right now, getting that stuff out of your motor is only a good thing so there are many "win/wins in blocking the crossover. Hope this helps,
Jim Bounds
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________________________________
From: Wally Anderson <wallyand@aim.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser
Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Wed, 30 January 2013 07:57
> Ok, I've done as much research as I can although I'm sure there are more sites to dig through.
>
> - I've found several treads that describe HOW to block the passages from pouring aluminum to installing block off plates.
>
> - I understand that not blocking off the plates can result in the manifold heat boiling the gas from the carb (seen it on my own coach)
>
> What I haven't been able to find is what happens to the original design functions of the GM engineers. As I think I understand, GM on most big block engines, wanted to heat the fuel air mixture to ensure better atomization. Without the heat, the fuel air mixture is inefficient with the cold engine...I assume the choke stays on longer to enrich the mixture??? So my question is really striving for understanding not questioning the wisdom of the folks who tell me I should do this.
>
> I understand from some hot rodder friends that Olds (or perhaps aftermarket) had a phenolic spacer under the carb to address the excess heat problem. I know Chrysler made an entire phenolic carb (the Thermoquad) for this reason. Basically a Quadrajet but with a phenolic body. They worked great unless the body cracked or warped which was a problem. The secondaries were frigging HUGE and when you got your foot into it the Thermoquad on a 440 would moan like the hounds of hell and really go...while still getting decent mileage if you stayed on the little primaries. Again, similar but different from our Quadrajets.
>
> Just wondering while waiting for the storm line to pass us by this morning. If there is a link to a discussion on this, please post it.
Bdub has this in the faq
http://www.bdub.net/gmc-faq.html
Then control F and search for blocking will get you right on it.
HTH
--
Wally Anderson
1975 Glenbrook
Megasquirt 455 port injection science project-On the road 16,468 miles
Omaha Nebraska
Greater Midwest Classics
GMCES
http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Blocking intake heat riser [message #196862 is a reply to message #196833] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 13:50 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Kerry, the consensus is that the heated manifold is a good thing for drivability and emissions----in a passenger car. Same drive train in a 11,000# vehicle is a severe duty scheme all the time. With that much road load the heat produced gets the manifold up to temp quick enough without any crossover gasses let alone heat riser valve. Though a parked idling warm up would not apply, the current theory anyway is long cold warmup times as a practice are bad anyway. Unless sub zero, I start and gently drive offmy vehicles about a min or 2 to warm the engine to normal temp asap and prevent more water/sludge in the oil than is necessary. The other thing that can really cook the floor of the manifold is if one muffler (before the Y) is restricted or blocked or flowing differntly from it's partner. This forces all or some of the exhaust across the only remaining path and really cooks the floor of the manifold, especially if pulling a long grade, etc. As far a the block off, I think many of our vendors sell the proper gaskets to do so including Applied, Lenzi, JimB and others. The other schem is what Cinnabar does and puts restrictors in the corss over to still allow a bit of preheating. Since most GMC use is in warmer climes, that may be unnecessary as well. I have my AC AutoThermac hooked up and working so that helps during cold start warmup as well. But then again I hate fumes and emissions so anything I can do to get it run cleaner with the stock Qjet is good.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196869 is a reply to message #196833] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 16:27 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
I have two OEM cast iron Toronado intake manifolds at my shop in Humble, TX and one here in Sydney. One of the manifolds in Humble
has TWO cracks (one in the bottom of the plenum and one in the bottom of the crossover). Two cracks will allow engine vacuum to suck
oil vapor into the crossover then into the plenum.
One of the items on my TTD list is to block the crossovers in the manifolds in Houston with a product called Hard Blok. It is the
material that drag racers use to fill engine blocks. Last year I had purchased a bucket of HardBlok (two 14 lb bags).
Below is a link to the page on the HardBlok website that provides detailed information about it.
http://www.hardblok.com/product-info/
Clicking on the How to Order link:
http://www.hardblok.com/how-to-order/
I checked Summit (2ea 14lb bags @ $96.95) and Jegs (2ea 14lb bags $89.99) - Jegs is a bit cheaper (didn’t check shipping)
http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/hard-blok/product-line/hard-blok-engine-block-filler?autoview=SKU
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&Ne=1%2B2%2B3 %2
B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=hardblok
The plan is:
1) Using a cylindrical carbide cutter http://www.sgstool.com/product.aspx?groupcode=SBGPBUR in a router "mill"
a 1/8" deep recess around both crossover ports that is 1/8" larger on all sides of the port.
2) Fabricate two 1/8" thick "plugs" that fit into the recesses.
3) Bring the manifold to a radiator shop and have it cleaned to remove as much of the crud in the crossover as possible.
4) Fabricate and install a metal plate with a rubber gasket on one of the crossover to head ports.
5) Fabricate a wooden stand that will hold the manifold in the vertical position with the open crossover to head ports up.
6) Clean the crossover using hydrochloric acid until no carbon comes out (I believe when the crossover is clean all I'll get is a
rusty colored solution.
7) Flush the crossover with clear water.
8) Remove the plate and rubber gasket and install the plug from step 2).
9) Mix the HardBlok and pour it into the crossover until it comes out of the open vertical port.
10) Install and clamp the second "plug" into the open port.
11) Allow the HardBlok to cure as per the instructions.
If the cracks in the manifold are only at the bottom of the plenum the Dick Paterson's gasket / block off plate kit will work just
fine. If there are cracks in the bottom of the plenum AND the bottom of the crossover the kit won't work because engine vacuum will
suck oil mist into the crossover then into the plenum.
Upsides:
1) Repair cost of $100 (give or take a bit)
2) You can do it in your backyard / garage
3) You can use the OEM turkey tray gasket and maintain good port alignment
Downsides:
1) Messing with hydrochloric acid can be dangerous if you're not careful - always add acid to water NEVER add water to acid!!!
2) HardBlok will add weight to an already heavy manifold.
Comments please.
To respond to your second question:
Mr. Gasket makes a phenolic gasket for the Quadrajet:
http://mr-gasket.com/phenolic-insulator-q-jet.html
However, I believe it's too thick and will raise the Q-jet enough to interfere with the engine hatch.
I installed the Mr. Gasket kit below:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/86/10002/-1
This is 1/4" thick and will not raise the carb enough to cause interference with the engine hatch.
Mr. Gasket also sells a 1/2" thick kit:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/86B/10002/-1
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Ok, I've done as much research as I can although I'm sure there are more sites to dig through.
- I've found several treads that describe HOW to block the passages from pouring aluminum to installing block off plates.
- I understand that not blocking off the plates can result in the manifold heat boiling the gas from the carb (seen it on my own
coach)
What I haven't been able to find is what happens to the original design functions of the GM engineers. As I think I understand, GM
on most big block engines, wanted to heat the fuel air mixture to ensure better atomization. Without the heat, the fuel air mixture
is inefficient with the cold engine...I assume the choke stays on longer to enrich the mixture??? So my question is really striving
for understanding not questioning the wisdom of the folks who tell me I should do this.
I understand from some hot rodder friends that Olds (or perhaps aftermarket) had a phenolic spacer under the carb to address the
excess heat problem. I know Chrysler made an entire phenolic carb (the Thermoquad) for this reason. Basically a Quadrajet but with
a phenolic body. They worked great unless the body cracked or warped which was a problem. The secondaries were frigging HUGE and
when you got your foot into it the Thermoquad on a 440 would moan like the hounds of hell and really go...while still getting decent
mileage if you stayed on the little primaries. Again, similar but different from our Quadrajets.
Just wondering while waiting for the storm line to pass us by this morning. If there is a link to a discussion on this, please post
it.
Kerry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196880 is a reply to message #196869] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 19:04 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
After you do steps 1&2 the only reason for filling the intake manifold
with Hardblok would be to try to seal up cracks.
If the manifold in not cracked than the rest of the steps would be
unnecessary.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Kerry,
>
> I have two OEM cast iron Toronado intake manifolds at my shop in Humble,
> TX and one here in Sydney. One of the manifolds in Humble
> has TWO cracks (one in the bottom of the plenum and one in the bottom of
> the crossover). Two cracks will allow engine vacuum to suck
> oil vapor into the crossover then into the plenum.
>
> One of the items on my TTD list is to block the crossovers in the
> manifolds in Houston with a product called Hard Blok. It is the
> material that drag racers use to fill engine blocks. Last year I had
> purchased a bucket of HardBlok (two 14 lb bags).
>
> Below is a link to the page on the HardBlok website that provides detailed
> information about it.
>
> http://www.hardblok.com/product-info/
>
> Clicking on the How to Order link:
>
> http://www.hardblok.com/how-to-order/
>
> I checked Summit (2ea 14lb bags @ $96.95) and Jegs (2ea 14lb bags $89.99)
> - Jegs is a bit cheaper (didn’t check shipping)
>
>
> http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/hard-blok/product-line/hard-blok-engine-block-filler?autoview=SKU
>
>
> http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&Ne=1%2B2%2B3 %2
> B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=hardblok
>
> The plan is:
>
> 1) Using a cylindrical carbide cutter
> http://www.sgstool.com/product.aspx?groupcode=SBGPBUR in a router "mill"
> a 1/8" deep recess around both crossover ports that is 1/8" larger on all
> sides of the port.
> 2) Fabricate two 1/8" thick "plugs" that fit into the recesses.
> 3) Bring the manifold to a radiator shop and have it cleaned to remove as
> much of the crud in the crossover as possible.
> 4) Fabricate and install a metal plate with a rubber gasket on one of the
> crossover to head ports.
> 5) Fabricate a wooden stand that will hold the manifold in the vertical
> position with the open crossover to head ports up.
> 6) Clean the crossover using hydrochloric acid until no carbon comes out
> (I believe when the crossover is clean all I'll get is a
> rusty colored solution.
> 7) Flush the crossover with clear water.
> 8) Remove the plate and rubber gasket and install the plug from step 2).
> 9) Mix the HardBlok and pour it into the crossover until it comes out of
> the open vertical port.
> 10) Install and clamp the second "plug" into the open port.
> 11) Allow the HardBlok to cure as per the instructions.
>
> If the cracks in the manifold are only at the bottom of the plenum the
> Dick Paterson's gasket / block off plate kit will work just
> fine. If there are cracks in the bottom of the plenum AND the bottom of
> the crossover the kit won't work because engine vacuum will
> suck oil mist into the crossover then into the plenum.
>
> Upsides:
>
> 1) Repair cost of $100 (give or take a bit)
> 2) You can do it in your backyard / garage
> 3) You can use the OEM turkey tray gasket and maintain good port alignment
>
> Downsides:
>
> 1) Messing with hydrochloric acid can be dangerous if you're not careful -
> always add acid to water NEVER add water to acid!!!
> 2) HardBlok will add weight to an already heavy manifold.
>
> Comments please.
>
> To respond to your second question:
>
> Mr. Gasket makes a phenolic gasket for the Quadrajet:
>
> http://mr-gasket.com/phenolic-insulator-q-jet.html
>
> However, I believe it's too thick and will raise the Q-jet enough to
> interfere with the engine hatch.
>
> I installed the Mr. Gasket kit below:
>
> http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/86/10002/-1
>
> This is 1/4" thick and will not raise the carb enough to cause
> interference with the engine hatch.
>
> Mr. Gasket also sells a 1/2" thick kit:
>
> http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/86B/10002/-1
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kerry Pinkerton
>
> Ok, I've done as much research as I can although I'm sure there are more
> sites to dig through.
>
> - I've found several treads that describe HOW to block the passages from
> pouring aluminum to installing block off plates.
>
> - I understand that not blocking off the plates can result in the manifold
> heat boiling the gas from the carb (seen it on my own
> coach)
>
> What I haven't been able to find is what happens to the original design
> functions of the GM engineers. As I think I understand, GM
> on most big block engines, wanted to heat the fuel air mixture to ensure
> better atomization. Without the heat, the fuel air mixture
> is inefficient with the cold engine...I assume the choke stays on longer
> to enrich the mixture??? So my question is really striving
> for understanding not questioning the wisdom of the folks who tell me I
> should do this.
>
> I understand from some hot rodder friends that Olds (or perhaps
> aftermarket) had a phenolic spacer under the carb to address the
> excess heat problem. I know Chrysler made an entire phenolic carb (the
> Thermoquad) for this reason. Basically a Quadrajet but with
> a phenolic body. They worked great unless the body cracked or warped
> which was a problem. The secondaries were frigging HUGE and
> when you got your foot into it the Thermoquad on a 440 would moan like the
> hounds of hell and really go...while still getting decent
> mileage if you stayed on the little primaries. Again, similar but
> different from our Quadrajets.
>
> Just wondering while waiting for the storm line to pass us by this
> morning. If there is a link to a discussion on this, please post
> it.
>
> Kerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196894 is a reply to message #196869] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 20:58 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Sounds like a plan. But based on having poured zinc into a few manifolds,
I wouldn't bother with the rubber gasket/steel plate seal for the lower
ports. All I used was a piece of pine board. As soon as the 800*F or so
zinc charred the wood, it quit burning. When the zinc cooled, it mostly
receeded into the port; the little excess was easily removed with wood
chisel. With your cold hard-block, there won't even be any charring.
Now for the hydrochloric acid wash, the rubber gasket may be in order -- or
a different piece of wood.
I'll try to remember to check with John Beaver tomorrow about the cost of
Hard Block; the Jegs price seems high. John uses a lot of it, so may have
a better source.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> ...4) Fabricate and install a metal plate with a rubber gasket on one of
> the crossover to head ports.
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Blocking intake heat riser [message #196895 is a reply to message #196833] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 21:03 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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I've always said that ignorance was treatable but stupid was forever. I appreciate the education and I'm thankful to no longer be ignorant on this particular subject.  
I'm probably going to just buy the pre blocked gasket from JimK but is there any reason I couldn't just bevel the opening, cut and grind a 1/8 plate steel plug and TIG it in?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Wed, 30 January 2013 21:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196897 is a reply to message #196894] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 21:10 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
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Ken,
Thanks, the rubber gasket was for the HCL the HardBlok. I have to figger out a SAFE method of pouring the contaminated HCL out of
the crossover when the chemical reaction between the residual "gunk" and the HCL stops.
I might just flood the crossover with clear water from a hose until the HCL diluted to a harmless level.
Emery, is there something I could mix in to neutralize the acid?
Way back deep in the recesses of my grey matter something along the lines of:
An acid + a base = a salt comes to mind, however, the same grey matter (in a much younger state) FLUNKED high school chemistry! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013 1:58 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser
Rob,
Sounds like a plan. But based on having poured zinc into a few manifolds,
I wouldn't bother with the rubber gasket/steel plate seal for the lower
ports. All I used was a piece of pine board. As soon as the 800*F or so
zinc charred the wood, it quit burning. When the zinc cooled, it mostly
receeded into the port; the little excess was easily removed with wood
chisel. With your cold hard-block, there won't even be any charring.
Now for the hydrochloric acid wash, the rubber gasket may be in order -- or
a different piece of wood.
I'll try to remember to check with John Beaver tomorrow about the cost of
Hard Block; the Jegs price seems high. John uses a lot of it, so may have
a better source.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> ...4) Fabricate and install a metal plate with a rubber gasket on one of
> the crossover to head ports.
> ...
>
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196899 is a reply to message #196895] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 21:15 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
Sure, as long as the manifold isn't cracked, however, from what I've learned hanging around here is that quite a few of them are
cracked when removed from a GMC.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
I'm probably going to just buy the pre blocked gasket from JimK but is there any reason I couldn't just bevel the opening, cut a
steel plug and TIG it in?
--
Kerry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196912 is a reply to message #196895] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 21:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
On my 455 manifold, I did as Rob described: Used an ordinary router with a
carbide bit to make a 1/8" wide X 3/32" deep seat all around each port,
then inserted a steel plug and a little RTV in each. The Mr Gasket 404
holds the plugs firmly in place.
I learned the trick from Alex Sirum years ago. I think he has a jig --
I've got a "good hand/eye" -- HA!
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
>
> I'm probably going to just buy the pre blocked gasket from JimK but is
> there any reason I couldn't just bevel the opening, cut a steel plug and
> TIG it in?
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196937 is a reply to message #196897] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 06:23 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ordinary baking soda would work fine to neutralize the acid. I use it all the time to clean car battery tops and connectors. Follow it with a water rinse.
However be prepared for a foamy mess if you have a lot of acid.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:10 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Thanks, the rubber gasket was for the HCL the HardBlok. I have to figger out a SAFE method of pouring the contaminated HCL out of
> the crossover when the chemical reaction between the residual "gunk" and the HCL stops.
>
> I might just flood the crossover with clear water from a hose until the HCL diluted to a harmless level.
>
> Emery, is there something I could mix in to neutralize the acid?
>
> Way back deep in the recesses of my grey matter something along the lines of:
>
> An acid + a base = a salt comes to mind, however, the same grey matter (in a much younger state) FLUNKED high school chemistry! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
> Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013 1:58 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser
>
> Rob,
>
> Sounds like a plan. But based on having poured zinc into a few manifolds,
> I wouldn't bother with the rubber gasket/steel plate seal for the lower
> ports. All I used was a piece of pine board. As soon as the 800*F or so
> zinc charred the wood, it quit burning. When the zinc cooled, it mostly
> receeded into the port; the little excess was easily removed with wood
> chisel. With your cold hard-block, there won't even be any charring.
>
> Now for the hydrochloric acid wash, the rubber gasket may be in order -- or
> a different piece of wood.
>
> I'll try to remember to check with John Beaver tomorrow about the cost of
> Hard Block; the Jegs price seems high. John uses a lot of it, so may have
> a better source.
>
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>
>> ...4) Fabricate and install a metal plate with a rubber gasket on one of
>> the crossover to head ports.
>> ...
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196939 is a reply to message #196912] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 07:03 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I did the same but used my drill press to support the head (not the intake
manifold) and was able to slow down the cutter. It took the better part of
a day to do both heads. I would actually move the head into the cutter at
a very slow pace. I started with a carbide end mill but ended up using a
carbide router bit.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Kerry,
>
> On my 455 manifold, I did as Rob described: Used an ordinary router with a
> carbide bit to make a 1/8" wide X 3/32" deep seat all around each port,
> then inserted a steel plug and a little RTV in each. The Mr Gasket 404
> holds the plugs firmly in place.
>
> I learned the trick from Alex Sirum years ago. I think he has a jig --
> I've got a "good hand/eye" -- HA!
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm probably going to just buy the pre blocked gasket from JimK but is
> > there any reason I couldn't just bevel the opening, cut a steel plug and
> > TIG it in?
> > --
> > Kerry Pinkerton
> >
> > North Alabama, near Huntsville,
> >
> > 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> > an Art Deco car hauler
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #196945 is a reply to message #196939] |
Thu, 31 January 2013 07:48 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Welding cast steel is not that straight forward and you can do everything right and cause catestrophic results. As scarce as the low compression "J" design smogger heads are, I do not want to take the liability of screwing one up.
Using Dick Patterson's set up or Mondello plates with a Mr. Gasket standard fiber gasket set has worked so well for us in the past without creating possible liability and damage which we did cause damage to the 2 heads we welded (story, "Intake on the Barby" on my site) I feel we do it this way which we feel is best for our siruation. There are many ways though to skin cats, dogs and Ground Hogs...
Jim Bounds
-----------------------
________________________________
From: Bruce Hart <hartsgmc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser
I did the same but used my drill press to support the head (not the intake
manifold) and was able to slow down the cutter. It took the better part of
a day to do both heads. I would actually move the head into the cutter at
a very slow pace. I started with a carbide end mill but ended up using a
carbide router bit.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Kerry,
>
> On my 455 manifold, I did as Rob described: Used an ordinary router with a
> carbide bit to make a 1/8" wide X 3/32" deep seat all around each port,
> then inserted a steel plug and a little RTV in each. The Mr Gasket 404
> holds the plugs firmly in place.
>
> I learned the trick from Alex Sirum years ago. I think he has a jig --
> I've got a "good hand/eye" -- HA!
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm probably going to just buy the pre blocked gasket from JimK but is
> > there any reason I couldn't just bevel the opening, cut a steel plug and
> > TIG it in?
> > --
> > Kerry Pinkerton
> >
> > North Alabama, near Huntsville,
> >
> > 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> > an Art Deco car hauler
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Blocking intake heat riser [message #197034 is a reply to message #197023] |
Fri, 01 February 2013 06:01 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob,
Why don't you just take it to a good automotive machine shop and have it
"tanked"? Their caustic bath should clean it to bare iron without you
having any of the hassle.
Ken H.
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Robert Mueller wrote:
> Emery,
>
> Here in Australia HCL is sold as 30% HCL - 70% H2O mix. Is it the same in
> the USA?
>
> Along with my concern about the danger of messing with HCL I got to
> thinking about the environment.
>
> I envision the HCL reacting with the exhaust residue and possibly foaming
> up a bit.
>
> I am GUESSING that I will have to fill, soak, and drain the crossover
> three / four times to get all of the exhaust residue out of
> the crossover. I guesstimate that the volume of the crossover is 2 quarts
> give or take a bit. That means I would have used 1.5 - 2
> gallons of 30% HCL.I want to do the right thing environmentally and was
> wondering if pouring HCL even if it's neutralized out on to
> the ground is OK.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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