Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Replacement Starter
| Replacement Starter [message #194466] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 15:04  |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
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Process of getting Odie up and running. Found out I need a new starter or have the one I have rebuilt.
Read someplace that the GMC took a special starter for the motorhome.
Any ideas on which way I need to go?
Sorry if this topic is a redo.
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: Replacement Starter [message #194469 is a reply to message #194466] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 15:16  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
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| toyomojoe wrote on Mon, 31 December 2012 14:04 |
Process of getting Odie up and running. Found out I need a new starter or have the one I have rebuilt.
Read someplace that the GMC took a special starter for the motorhome.
Any ideas on which way I need to go?
Sorry if this topic is a redo.
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Conventional wisdom here says it is best to have your starter rebuilt by a local re-builder. That said, I have heard good things about "Denso" rebuilds, from the premium auto parts outlets.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[Updated on: Mon, 31 December 2012 15:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194472 is a reply to message #194471] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 15:39 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
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Thats pretty much what I was thinking. Now just have to find someone to do it!
Man am I ready to see Odie moving again!
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194476 is a reply to message #194473] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 17:09 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
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No not 100% sure. Was working to get it started changed plugs, oil, filters, rebuilt carb. Fresh battery, Turned the key, cranked cranked cranked but starter was not turning very fast. fired and ran briefly, cranked again still turning slow, but fired and ran , running now nice thick white smoke killing all the bugs in the area, (burning off old dead fuel) ran for 5-10 mins (smoked cleared away and running clean) but power steering started making a loud bearing noise (Yes no fluid dry as a bone) cut it off to put fluid in pump, tried to crank again and just grunted, short grunts not spinning at all. Hooked another truck up to it thinking it was the battery, made no difference.
So brings me to the starter. Coach has not run in 10 years, thinking maybe starter brushes could be rusty.
Napa has a rebuilt high torque Delco that shows will fit it, but I see someone elses had a problem with Napa.
Gene I had seen this detail before about moving the starter cable and thought I would try it when i get a new starter, (thanks for the link because I lost it) also going to change the battery cables.
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter ... STUPID QUESTION [message #194483 is a reply to message #194480] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 17:36 |
peabody
Messages: 126
Registered: May 2011
Location: steamboat springs, co
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I'm a retired lawyer not a mechanic. Stupid Q: but how does this this rewiring go ? What goes to where ? My starter will start the engine but the first crank or two is er, er, er then it turns fast enough to start the engine. It does this every time I go to start the engine.
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:13:10 -0800
> From: mr.erfisher@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter
>
> >
> > Napa has a rebuilt high torque Delco that shows will fit it, but I see
> > someone elses had a problem with Napa.
> >
> > many of the high torque starters have ceramic magnets, and not much metal.
>
> I would get yours rebuilt, but
> fixing the cables might just do the job
>
> keep the old starter, they are more massive and can stand the high load
>
>
> gene
>
>
>
> > Gene I had seen this detail before about moving the starter cable and
> > thought I would try it when i get a new starter, (thanks for the link
> > because I lost it) also going to change the battery cables.
> > --
> > Joe Kemenczky
> > 1975 Eleganza ll (Odie) 75,000 miles.
> > Working on complete restoration.
> > Loving every minute!
> > Monroe, NC (East of Charlotte).
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter ... STUPID QUESTION [message #194486 is a reply to message #194484] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 17:46 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
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I have a stupid question also.. Was the power boost added because the starters where dragging?
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194500 is a reply to message #194470] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 19:22 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
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Actually there are several versions of the starter that fit the 455 & 403 motors. It is the same starter fits both motors. On the way home from Florida spring of 2010 we stopped in Ozark, AL which is 25 or so miles north of Dothan AL. We were spending several days there fixing one of our traveling friends coach. I happened to notice a Starter/Alternator Rebuild shop on one of the main drags in the town. (Precision Auto Service Center, 1157 Andrews Ave, Ozark, AL 334 774-8051) I stopped and asked the guy what they get for a rebuilt starter that fits the 455/403 motors. I think that it was about $109 out the door at that time. He asked me if I want a standard or as he said it a heavy duty starter. He went into detail on the differences between the two. I watched him put the starter together and test it in less than 15 minutes. The main point to look for is the number of flat copper leads that come out of the starter housing and are connected to the solenoid. If you
have the single flat lead then it is the standard and if you have the 2 flat leads coming out of the housing then it is the HD windings. It used the industry Lester#3629.
It has been said that the MH starter if you have the original starter on your coach is a HD starter with the square wound windings. As many have said, have it rebuild by a repetitable rebuilder. I look for old time shops as they unusally have the older guy that has been doing it for years, I will be bringing an rebuildable dual flat lead starter with me to Dothan and plan to run up and have him build me another.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Dec 31, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I dont think there is anything "special" about the GMC starter. I carry a spare that was rebuilt by my local rebuilder. Also carry an alternator that he rebuilt. Why? Well, I have replaced both on the road. Took 3 from Autozone to get a good one.
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
> Dexter, Mo.
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194502 is a reply to message #194473] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 19:34 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
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hit it with a hammer knock the rust off it, take it off, take the cover off and softly scrape the rust out of the windings any where you see it,
my boat use to not start and just clean the windings and bingo another year good to go. There is not much that can go wrong
like these photos below show, it could be pre starter, or ground that stops the flow of electro >>>>>>>>>>
The older the person to help you the more he knows what he is doing in starters most the time.
mickey
77palm beach
anaheim ca.
On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:52 PM, gene Fisher wrote:
>>
>> Thats pretty much what I was thinking. Now just have to find someone to do
>> it!
>> Man am I ready to see Odie moving again!
>>
> are you sure you need a new one?
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5493-gmc-cranking-improve-for-free.html
>
> good luck
>
> gene
>
>
>
>> --
>> Joe Kemenczky
>> 1975 Eleganza ll (Odie) 75,000 miles.
>> Working on complete restoration.
>> Loving every minute!
>> Monroe, NC (East of Charlotte).
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194508 is a reply to message #194502] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 20:28 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
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Mickey That is true, it could be before the starter. But since I have it off i'm gonna go ahead and have it rebuilt. I'll also change the wires and add a new ground. Can't hurt. Replacing everything else on the GMC..lol
Thanks for all the info and ideas guys!
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194528 is a reply to message #194508] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 22:17 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Make sure that the starting battery ground wire is attached to the engine block somewhere and not the frame. It makes no difference where on the engine you attach it. Most are attached on the passenger side of the engine near the front.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacement Starter [message #194532 is a reply to message #194466] |
Mon, 31 December 2012 22:47 |
Tim Jeffries
Messages: 35
Registered: August 2012
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I managed to find the same (OEM re-mfg starter at O'reilly Auto Parts (
formerly Kragen here in SD) after two tries with Summit Racing at sending
me the wrong starter on a $160 upgrade (fail -due to non-matching mounts,
TWICE). But my Shade Tree mechanic, Rolando, insisted that I upgrade the
cables -a much better investment. Now they are 2/0 HUGE truck cables. Cost:
about $110.00 for cables and hardware, plus the re-manufactured "original"
starter: $55.00.
Starts very fast = easy on the batteries, so they will last much longer.
Tim J.
'73 260
rePainted Desert
San Diego
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Joe Kemenczky <toyomojoe@live.com> wrote:
>
>
> Process of getting Odie up and running. Found out I need a new starter or
> have the one I have rebuilt.
> Read someplace that the GMC took a special starter for the motorhome.
> Any ideas on which way I need to go?
>
> Sorry if this topic is a redo.
> --
> Joe Kemenczky
> 1975 Eleganza ll (Odie) 75,000 miles.
> Working on complete restoration.
> Loving every minute!
> Monroe, NC (East of Charlotte).
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Replacement Starter - Be Mindful Of... [message #194551 is a reply to message #194466] |
Tue, 01 January 2013 09:04 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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My recent experience lead me down an interesting path.
The starter used in our coaches is possibly too robust.....
They keep cranking when they should have (for their own good) just quit and gone home.
They will keep cranking with the brush screws dragging on the commutator bars (this is not good) and when this happens, it has all the characteristics that would normally be associated with and possibly recognized as bad cable connections. Even when it gets to this point, repair is still possible, but not on the road.
They seem to go just over 100K.
So, if you don't have history on your starter, and you have any reason to have it down, undo the three screws, look in the back and see how much room there is between the screws that hold the brushes and the commutator surface. If it is less than a 1/16, get it tended to. New brushes are about 5$us and take about 20 minutes to fit.
The starter used on our coaches is from a Delco family called 10MT. The family was in production from 1956 to 1994. Problem, ours has the specific nose casting for the 425 transmission. So, your local rebuilder will probably have a box of "MT10 Rebuild Parts" on his shelf, but the assembled starter can be less simple to obtain. Last summer, I would have been stuck for three days but for a Black List Rescue.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Replacement Starter [message #194552 is a reply to message #194466] |
Tue, 01 January 2013 09:54 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| toyomojoe wrote on Mon, 31 December 2012 13:04 |
Process of getting Odie up and running. Found out I need a new starter or have the one I have rebuilt.
Read someplace that the GMC took a special starter for the motorhome.
Any ideas on which way I need to go?
Sorry if this topic is a redo.
|
I recently put in a NAPA starter and it spins the engine like never before. I was doing the er er when hot after getting gas.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Replacement Starter [message #194555 is a reply to message #194552] |
Tue, 01 January 2013 10:22 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
Karma: 0
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Makes for a better day when you turn the key and you get Varoooomm... instead of er er er er .
Going to call around tomorrow and see about having mine rebuilt.
If I can't 2nd option is a delco from Napa.
Something I have not thought about, Is the one I have the one that came on it?
Anyone know the correct number that should of been on a 75 eleganza?
If I change the battery cables, clean the location of the ground on the frame, add ground to motor, relocate starter wire to battery and have starter rebuilt, Good bet i will get varoooom?
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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