Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » LP add on tank ????
| LP add on tank ???? [message #194171] |
Thu, 27 December 2012 22:44  |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ok, I know there is a high likely hood this will "fuel" a argument. But I do not have that intent. I already know its not the correct way to do this, if you want to argue that point start another thread. This thread is a question about the way LP gas flows.
I do A LOT of dry camping, and use my Mr. Heater Big Buddy for the coach. Works great, I removed the onboard furnace and now just use the Big Buddy. So LP use is a concern. I have a LP frig, heater buddy, and instant on water heater.
Anyway, I wanted to be able to carry a extra 20LB tank to hookup to the main onboard tank. I know they make things like extend a stay, and Ts that go after the main onboard tank between the tank and regulator. My issue is theres no room to be able to plumb in stuff like that.
I bought a adaptor, and all the hook ups, that will allow me to directly hook up a 20lb tank direct to my fill on the main tank.
Thats where my question starts.....
I do not think LP will flow from a full 20 lb tank into a empty onboard tank, please let me know if I am wrong there.
In order for me to use the 20 lb tank, I'm pretty sure the only way it will flow is if I invert the 20 lb tank and raise it higher then the onboard tank.
Is that correct? Is that the way to flow LP from the small tank into the empty large tank???
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: LP add on tank ???? [message #194221 is a reply to message #194171] |
Fri, 28 December 2012 09:25  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| RadioActiveGMC wrote on Thu, 27 December 2012 23:44 |
<snip>
I bought a adaptor, and all the hook ups, that will allow me to directly hook up a 20lb tank direct to my fill on the main tank.
Thats where my question starts.....
I do not think LP will flow from a full 20 lb tank into a empty onboard tank, please let me know if I am wrong there.
In order for me to use the 20 lb tank, I'm pretty sure the only way it will flow is if I invert the 20 lb tank and raise it higher then the onboard tank.
Is that correct? Is that the way to flow LP from the small tank into the empty large tank???
|
Micheal,
The propane (the larger portion of what is in most LP) is what we often refer to as a "room temperature vapor pressure". So, you just don't have much to work with, but it is very easy to work with and even easier to get.
The fill connection of any independent fill tank (where there are separate fill and service fittings) has an integral check valve that has a relatively high cracking pressure (like 10~15 psi) and you will be hard pressed to get that without a pump of some kind.
If you disconnect the regulator and use use that as the fill connection, you will have a chance.
If you invert the small tank and get it high enough over the coach tank and wait forever, the liquid will get down there. It will be close to forever unless you help it.
The thing that will help most is causing a temperature differential between the two tank (with the one you are trying to empty being the warmer. No matter what you do, it will still take a long time. This is why I used to use a pump. But not just any pump will do and it adds a level of possible danger to the process.
Ways to get the temperature differential:
-Leave the high tank in the sun and shade the lower tank. (This will take slightly less than forever.)
-Warm the upper tank with a heater of some kind. A hair dryer will do, but something without arcing brushes would be nice given the fact that you will probably have loose gas.
-Cool the lower tank. Just a towel with water on it will work if you are in the southwest, it won't do any good in the rest of the country unless you can wet the tank with cold well water.
Then, there is another gotcha waiting....
Many of the newer OPD valve tanks will not allow flow with the tank inverted, so you will have to wait and see on that one.
I have to wonder why the effort. The stove and refrigerator use very little fuel. Why not just connect the portable tank to the trip-over heater?
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194235 is a reply to message #194171] |
Fri, 28 December 2012 10:44 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Michael,
This is how I do the extra LP for the coach. I use the main tank for only going down the road and short term usage which I can unusually fill once a year. When I stay at a place for a longer time I use an external tank. See the following pictures, there are 8 total. <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p46783-lp-tank-modification.html
As for attempting to fill the tank from another tank it is pretty much a lost cause a Matt has stated. When they fill your tank they pump it in to overcome the residual pressure in the tank.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Dec 27, 2012, at 11:44 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, I know there is a high likely hood this will "fuel" an argument. But I do not have that intent. I already know its not the correct way to do this, if you want to argue that point start another thread. This thread is a question about the way LP gas flows.
>
> I do A LOT of dry camping, and use my Mr. Heater Big Buddy for the coach. Works great, I removed the onboard furnace and now just use the Big Buddy. So LP use is a concern. I have an LP frig, heater buddy, and instant on water heater.
>
> Anyway, I wanted to be able to carry a extra 20LB tank to hookup to the main onboard tank. I know they make things like extend a stay, and Ts that go after the main onboard tank between the tank and regulator. My issue is theres no room to be able to plumb in stuff like that.
>
> I bought a adaptor, and all the hook ups, that will allow me to directly hook up a 20lb tank direct to my fill on the main tank.
>
> Thats where my question starts.....
>
> I do not think LP will flow from a full 20 lb tank into a empty onboard tank, please let me know if I am wrong there.
>
> In order for me to use the 20 lb tank, I'm pretty sure the only way it will flow is if I invert the 20 lb tank and raise it higher then the onboard tank.
> Is that correct? Is that the way to flow LP from the small tank into the empty large tank???
>
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194253 is a reply to message #194171] |
Fri, 28 December 2012 14:25 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I'm pretty certain that you should NEVER invert an LP Gas tank.
The tank holds LIQUID propane (or butane) and it is converted
to a gas by the output valve AFIK. There ARE tanks certified
for HORIZONTAL operation. INVERTED? Highly doubtful.
I'm pretty sure that the OPV (Overflow Protection Valve) would
stop any flow from an inverted tank. Since the EXTERNAL tank
output is a gas, I don't believe it would charge the INTERNAL tank.
You would probably have to have an input port on your coach's
gas plumbing to connect your EXTERNAL tank to the system. I
suspect that you would need diabling shutoffs for BOTH tanks
where they connect to the coach gas plumbing system.
Best advice I can give is to get with a professional LP Gas outlet
to ensure a safe installation.
Stuff that can go BOOM is not a place for amateurs to go!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: radioactive626@msn.com
> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:44:40 -0600
> Subject: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
>
>
>
> Ok, I know there is a high likely hood this will "fuel" a argument. But I do not have that intent. I already know its not the correct way to do this, if you want to argue that point start another thread. This thread is a question about the way LP gas flows.
>
> I do A LOT of dry camping, and use my Mr. Heater Big Buddy for the coach. Works great, I removed the onboard furnace and now just use the Big Buddy. So LP use is a concern. I have a LP frig, heater buddy, and instant on water heater.
>
> Anyway, I wanted to be able to carry a extra 20LB tank to hookup to the main onboard tank. I know they make things like extend a stay, and Ts that go after the main onboard tank between the tank and regulator. My issue is theres no room to be able to plumb in stuff like that.
>
> I bought a adaptor, and all the hook ups, that will allow me to directly hook up a 20lb tank direct to my fill on the main tank.
>
> Thats where my question starts.....
>
> I do not think LP will flow from a full 20 lb tank into a empty onboard tank, please let me know if I am wrong there.
>
> In order for me to use the 20 lb tank, I'm pretty sure the only way it will flow is if I invert the 20 lb tank and raise it higher then the onboard tank.
> Is that correct? Is that the way to flow LP from the small tank into the empty large tank???
>
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194256 is a reply to message #194253] |
Fri, 28 December 2012 14:39 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I have been filling the small propane tanks for hand torches, camping stoves, etc from a propane tank for years by inverting the tank. However, you are correct, that the new OPV does prevent the ability to do that.
As to going "BOOM" that is fairly unlikely. I recall years back in the late 60's at a Watkins Glen race in the evening someone dropped a propane tank onto a log fire. I was sure that it would explode but actually it just heated up until the pressure in the tank got high enough to open the valve and then it released propane which caught on fire and flared up quite high. When the pressure went down it stopped until it reheated and the cycle repeated several times until the tank was empty.
Propane is a relatively safe product. Like gasoline, propane is flammable, but has a much narrower range of flammability than gasoline and much higher ignition temperature 920- 1020 degrees vs. 80- 300 degrees for gasoline. Propane will only burn with a fuel-to-air ratio of between 2.2% and 9.6% and will rapidly dissipate beyond its flammability range in the open atmosphere-making ignition unlikely. Propane, unlike gasoline, is heavier than air and in the event of a leak it will flow downward rather than up toward a ingntion source.
The ignition temperature is the temperature at which a fuel will ignite without the need for a spark or flame.
Propane has the lowest flammability range of any of the commonly available fuels. The flammability range is the percentage of propane in air from the lowest to the highest that will burn.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Dec 28, 2012, at 1:25 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald wrote:
>
> I'm pretty certain that you should NEVER invert an LP Gas tank.
> The tank holds LIQUID propane (or butane) and it is converted
> to a gas by the output valve AFIK. There ARE tanks certified
> for HORIZONTAL operation. INVERTED? Highly doubtful.
>
> I'm pretty sure that the OPV (Overflow Protection Valve) would
> stop any flow from an inverted tank. Since the EXTERNAL tank
> output is a gas, I don't believe it would charge the INTERNAL tank.
>
> You would probably have to have an input port on your coach's
> gas plumbing to connect your EXTERNAL tank to the system. I
> suspect that you would need diabling shutoffs for BOTH tanks
> where they connect to the coach gas plumbing system.
>
> Best advice I can give is to get with a professional LP Gas outlet
> to ensure a safe installation.
>
> Stuff that can go BOOM is not a place for amateurs to go!
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ______________
> *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> *--OO--[]---O-*
>
>
>
>
>
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: radioactive626@msn.com
>> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:44:40 -0600
>> Subject: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok, I know there is a high likely hood this will "fuel" a argument. But I do not have that intent. I already know its not the correct way to do this, if you want to argue that point start another thread. This thread is a question about the way LP gas flows.
>>
>> I do A LOT of dry camping, and use my Mr. Heater Big Buddy for the coach. Works great, I removed the onboard furnace and now just use the Big Buddy. So LP use is a concern. I have a LP frig, heater buddy, and instant on water heater.
>>
>> Anyway, I wanted to be able to carry a extra 20LB tank to hookup to the main onboard tank. I know they make things like extend a stay, and Ts that go after the main onboard tank between the tank and regulator. My issue is theres no room to be able to plumb in stuff like that.
>>
>> I bought a adaptor, and all the hook ups, that will allow me to directly hook up a 20lb tank direct to my fill on the main tank.
>>
>> Thats where my question starts.....
>>
>> I do not think LP will flow from a full 20 lb tank into a empty onboard tank, please let me know if I am wrong there.
>>
>> In order for me to use the 20 lb tank, I'm pretty sure the only way it will flow is if I invert the 20 lb tank and raise it higher then the onboard tank.
>> Is that correct? Is that the way to flow LP from the small tank into the empty large tank???
>>
>> --
>> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
>> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194257 is a reply to message #194256] |
Fri, 28 December 2012 14:55 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Gasoline fumes are also heavier than air. That is why bilge blowers
on inboard engine boats suck from the bottom of the bilges, to keep
them away from possible ignition sources.
My point is that people TRAINED in handling LP gas should be the ones
to do the installations. Rank amateurs should not be installing gas
lines any more than they should be doing gasoline lines!
YRMV
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: emerystora@mac.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:39:56 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
>
> I have been filling the small propane tanks for hand torches, camping stoves, etc from a propane tank for years by inverting the tank. However, you are correct, that the new OPV does prevent the ability to do that.
>
> As to going "BOOM" that is fairly unlikely. I recall years back in the late 60's at a Watkins Glen race in the evening someone dropped a propane tank onto a log fire. I was sure that it would explode but actually it just heated up until the pressure in the tank got high enough to open the valve and then it released propane which caught on fire and flared up quite high. When the pressure went down it stopped until it reheated and the cycle repeated several times until the tank was empty.
>
> Propane is a relatively safe product. Like gasoline, propane is flammable, but has a much narrower range of flammability than gasoline and much higher ignition temperature 920- 1020 degrees vs. 80- 300 degrees for gasoline. Propane will only burn with a fuel-to-air ratio of between 2.2% and 9.6% and will rapidly dissipate beyond its flammability range in the open atmosphere-making ignition unlikely. Propane, unlike gasoline, is heavier than air and in the event of a leak it will flow downward rather than up toward a ingntion source.
>
> The ignition temperature is the temperature at which a fuel will ignite without the need for a spark or flame.
>
> Propane has the lowest flammability range of any of the commonly available fuels. The flammability range is the percentage of propane in air from the lowest to the highest that will burn.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2012, at 1:25 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm pretty certain that you should NEVER invert an LP Gas tank.
> > The tank holds LIQUID propane (or butane) and it is converted
> > to a gas by the output valve AFIK. There ARE tanks certified
> > for HORIZONTAL operation. INVERTED? Highly doubtful.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure that the OPV (Overflow Protection Valve) would
> > stop any flow from an inverted tank. Since the EXTERNAL tank
> > output is a gas, I don't believe it would charge the INTERNAL tank.
> >
> > You would probably have to have an input port on your coach's
> > gas plumbing to connect your EXTERNAL tank to the system. I
> > suspect that you would need diabling shutoffs for BOTH tanks
> > where they connect to the coach gas plumbing system.
> >
> > Best advice I can give is to get with a professional LP Gas outlet
> > to ensure a safe installation.
> >
> > Stuff that can go BOOM is not a place for amateurs to go!
> >
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> > ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> >
> >
> >> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> >> From: radioactive626@msn.com
> >> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:44:40 -0600
> >> Subject: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ok, I know there is a high likely hood this will "fuel" a argument. But I do not have that intent. I already know its not the correct way to do this, if you want to argue that point start another thread. This thread is a question about the way LP gas flows.
> >>
> >> I do A LOT of dry camping, and use my Mr. Heater Big Buddy for the coach. Works great, I removed the onboard furnace and now just use the Big Buddy. So LP use is a concern. I have a LP frig, heater buddy, and instant on water heater.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I wanted to be able to carry a extra 20LB tank to hookup to the main onboard tank. I know they make things like extend a stay, and Ts that go after the main onboard tank between the tank and regulator. My issue is theres no room to be able to plumb in stuff like that.
> >>
> >> I bought a adaptor, and all the hook ups, that will allow me to directly hook up a 20lb tank direct to my fill on the main tank.
> >>
> >> Thats where my question starts.....
> >>
> >> I do not think LP will flow from a full 20 lb tank into a empty onboard tank, please let me know if I am wrong there.
> >>
> >> In order for me to use the 20 lb tank, I'm pretty sure the only way it will flow is if I invert the 20 lb tank and raise it higher then the onboard tank.
> >> Is that correct? Is that the way to flow LP from the small tank into the empty large tank???
> >>
> >> --
> >> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> >> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194260 is a reply to message #194257] |
Fri, 28 December 2012 15:19 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| k2gkk wrote on Fri, 28 December 2012 13:55 |
Rank amateurs should not be installing gas
lines any more than they should be doing gasoline lines!
|
That might not be the best way to put it around this crowd (a good number of us having replaced at least some of the gas lines on our rigs, including myself a couple days ago).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194315 is a reply to message #194261] |
Sat, 29 December 2012 10:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I expect people with a DIY gene will figure it out and note the safety callouts. Those who aren't so comfortable playing with stuff that burns will prolly seek out the pros. Like every other bit of work on the GMC. I plumb transmission lines, they carry more oressure than the lp system on my coaches. I got lotsa bubble juice.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode Norris
'76 palm beach
From: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
Just sayin' that SOME folks might benefit from
supervision on their first trip down the lane!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: mark@habcycles.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 15:19:05 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
>
>
>
> k2gkk wrote on Fri, 28 December 2012 13:55
> > Rank amateurs should not be installing gas
> > lines any more than they should be doing gasoline lines!
>
> That might not be the best way to put it around this crowd (a good number of us having replaced at least some of the gas lines on our rigs, including myself a couple days ago).
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: LP add on tank ???? [message #194371 is a reply to message #194171] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 10:59 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I may have to explore the idea of plumbing in a T. Space is so limited. I kinda had a few ideas that if the main onboard LP tank was empty as soon as the tanks pressure is equal gas would low. The 20 lb tank doesn't have a regulator. I'm not in a rush as was stated LP usage is usually fairly nominal. I only use about a 1/8 tank per day or less now. But we do a lot of cold weather dry camping and LP is the most valuable fuel source, for heat and cooking. We go with the kids and theres nothing worse then the kids freezing during a fun camping trip!
I as well have refilled the little 1 lb portable tanks. I have the Mr. Heater Buddy adaptor. Freeze the 1 lb tank for 20 mins. Put the adaptor on the 20lb tank. Invert the 20 lb, and wait a few mins. 1 lb tank is filled.
Dry camping however is a bit different. The 20 lb tanks not so easy to invert, but not to hard either. Displacing 20lbs of LP is a lot more then just a little 1 lb tank. Plus its usually freezing cold outside. I wouldn't want to hair dryer the 20 lb tank cause of battery power use. LP is fairly safe outdoors. The odorant is easy to smell. I'd never have a open flame. Being very cautious is the main concern of course. But its very stable. LP in closed areas is much more dangerous. It settles and can be there for a long while. I use soapy water and spray and spray to check connections.
I'll have to examine the T option. I also would like to replace the 13 gal tank for a bigger one, then I think I'd be fine. The 13 gal tank has no leaks but I still cant imagine it shouldn't be replaced at some point in the future. And if I do I'd rather go bigger.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194373 is a reply to message #194371] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 12:14 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Here is a picture of using a T fitting to either attach a bar-b-que grill or to attach an external propane tank for extended stays.
In the case of the bar-b-que grill you would be using the pressure regulator that comes from your main tank.
For the external tank setup you would have to have a pressure regulator on the tank that you are attaching.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/storage-ideas/p1956.html
If you are going to hang an additional T and quick connect onto the POL valve you should be sure that you have the right fitting so that it doesn't crack. Here is a picture of the original one that came with my GMC and the one I used to replace it. The original started to bend from the additional weight.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5594-propane-pol-fittings.html
Note that I put in a valve in front of the quick connect because at the low pressure from the regulator the quick connect didn't seal properly.
If ou were going to just use the T for an external tank I suppose that you could put the T before the regulator and then feed the high pressure from the external tank directly into the T but I would still suggest the shutoff valve.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Dec 30, 2012, at 9:59 AM, Michael wrote:
>
>
> I may have to explore the idea of plumbing in a T. Space is so limited. I kinda had a few ideas that if the main onboard LP tank was empty as soon as the tanks pressure is equal gas would low. The 20 lb tank doesn't have a regulator. I'm not in a rush as was stated LP usage is usually fairly nominal. I only use about a 1/8 tank per day or less now. But we do a lot of cold weather dry camping and LP is the most valuable fuel source, for heat and cooking. We go with the kids and theres nothing worse then the kids freezing during a fun camping trip!
>
> I as well have refilled the little 1 lb portable tanks. I have the Mr. Heater Buddy adaptor. Freeze the 1 lb tank for 20 mins. Put the adaptor on the 20lb tank. Invert the 20 lb, and wait a few mins. 1 lb tank is filled.
>
> Dry camping however is a bit different. The 20 lb tanks not so easy to invert, but not to hard either. Displacing 20lbs of LP is a lot more then just a little 1 lb tank. Plus its usually freezing cold outside. I wouldn't want to hair dryer the 20 lb tank cause of battery power use. LP is fairly safe outdoors. The odorant is easy to smell. I'd never have a open flame. Being very cautious is the main concern of course. But its very stable. LP in closed areas is much more dangerous. It settles and can be there for a long while. I use soapy water and spray and spray to check connections.
>
> I'll have to examine the T option. I also would like to replace the 13 gal tank for a bigger one, then I think I'd be fine. The 13 gal tank has no leaks but I still cant imagine it shouldn't be replaced at some point in the future. And if I do I'd rather go bigger.
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194376 is a reply to message #194371] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 13:05 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Michael,
I think that you might be chasing windmills when you think that you can refill the coach tank with a 20# cylinder. I think that you need to look at it from a different perspective. With the "T" fitting installed you can turn off the main tank and use it as reserve tank and the 20# or slightly larger tanks that are available can be used as the main source of LP. I found a 25# fiberglass at my local LP dealer for a great price of under $100 and that included the tank filled. That is the green colored tank that appears in the pictures that I posted in reference to your first email. I found this to be the most economical way to heat our coach. When we were in Tucson that past 2 winters the cost was a lot less than the LP truck coming once a week. I could go to one of the many LP filling stations in the city and get the propane for about $2.65 a gallon. The propane delivered was $3.20 a gallon plus a delivery charge.
The getting of a larger coach tank is a possibility, but I think when you check the cost of a new larger LP coach tanks you will consider the 20# or larger portable tanks a better choice with the ease and overall cost. Your free to do what you want but don't make it any more difficult that it needs to be.
>
>
> I may have to explore the idea of plumbing in a T. Space is so limited. I kinda had a few ideas that if the main onboard LP tank was empty as soon as the tanks pressure is equal gas would low. The 20 lb tank doesn't have a regulator. I'm not in a rush as was stated LP usage is usually fairly nominal. I only use about a 1/8 tank per day or less now. But we do a lot of cold weather dry camping and LP is the most valuable fuel source, for heat and cooking. We go with the kids and theres nothing worse then the kids freezing during a fun camping trip!
>
> I as well have refilled the little 1 lb portable tanks. I have the Mr. Heater Buddy adaptor. Freeze the 1 lb tank for 20 mins. Put the adaptor on the 20lb tank. Invert the 20 lb, and wait a few mins. 1 lb tank is filled.
>
> Dry camping however is a bit different. The 20 lb tanks not so easy to invert, but not to hard either. Displacing 20lbs of LP is a lot more then just a little 1 lb tank. Plus its usually freezing cold outside. I wouldn't want to hair dryer the 20 lb tank cause of battery power use. LP is fairly safe outdoors. The odorant is easy to smell. I'd never have a open flame. Being very cautious is the main concern of course. But its very stable. LP in closed areas is much more dangerous. It settles and can be there for a long while. I use soapy water and spray and spray to check connections.
>
> I'll have to examine the T option. I also would like to replace the 13 gal tank for a bigger one, then I think I'd be fine. The 13 gal tank has no leaks but I still cant imagine it shouldn't be replaced at some point in the future. And if I do I'd rather go bigger.
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194378 is a reply to message #194371] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 15:24 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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what size tank is this big one that comes with the gmc? how long will that run the fridge and my po has put in an LP heater under the vacuum cleaner door. It is a flat like felt looking flameless i suppose heater. I have not tried to fill the bottle yet, how much will that cost. Any info on this system
will fill the vacuum of knowledge i have for it all. thank you
mickey clueless to lp systems
77 palm beach
anaheim ca. it anyone has time to help out, thank you. happy new year - One more year without an atomic attack amazing.
On Dec 30, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Michael wrote:
>
>
> I may have to explore the idea of plumbing in a T. Space is so limited. I kinda had a few ideas that if the main onboard LP tank was empty as soon as the tanks pressure is equal gas would low. The 20 lb tank doesn't have a regulator. I'm not in a rush as was stated LP usage is usually fairly nominal. I only use about a 1/8 tank per day or less now. But we do a lot of cold weather dry camping and LP is the most valuable fuel source, for heat and cooking. We go with the kids and theres nothing worse then the kids freezing during a fun camping trip!
>
> I as well have refilled the little 1 lb portable tanks. I have the Mr. Heater Buddy adaptor. Freeze the 1 lb tank for 20 mins. Put the adaptor on the 20lb tank. Invert the 20 lb, and wait a few mins. 1 lb tank is filled.
>
> Dry camping however is a bit different. The 20 lb tanks not so easy to invert, but not to hard either. Displacing 20lbs of LP is a lot more then just a little 1 lb tank. Plus its usually freezing cold outside. I wouldn't want to hair dryer the 20 lb tank cause of battery power use. LP is fairly safe outdoors. The odorant is easy to smell. I'd never have a open flame. Being very cautious is the main concern of course. But its very stable. LP in closed areas is much more dangerous. It settles and can be there for a long while. I use soapy water and spray and spray to check connections.
>
> I'll have to examine the T option. I also would like to replace the 13 gal tank for a bigger one, then I think I'd be fine. The 13 gal tank has no leaks but I still cant imagine it shouldn't be replaced at some point in the future. And if I do I'd rather go bigger.
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194380 is a reply to message #194373] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 15:55 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
Double Trouble's PO installed the "T" upstream of the regulator probably because he had a BBQ with a built in regulator (like the
one I have now).
Installing it there not only will you feed unregulated LPG gas out you can feed unregulated LPG gas in (direct from a BBQ bottle).
When the main LPG tank runs out, you turn it off, connect the BBQ bottle to the "T" and turn it on.
Bob's your uncle - you're cooking with gas! ;-) Howzat for combing Aussie and US lingo?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:14 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ????
Here is a picture of using a T fitting to either attach a bar-b-que grill or to attach an external propane tank for extended stays.
In the case of the bar-b-que grill you would be using the pressure regulator that comes from your main tank.
For the external tank setup you would have to have a pressure regulator on the tank that you are attaching.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/storage-ideas/p1956.html
If you are going to hang an additional T and quick connect onto the POL valve you should be sure that you have the right fitting so
that it doesn't crack. Here is a picture of the original one that came with my GMC and the one I used to replace it. The original
started to bend from the additional weight.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5594-propane-pol-fittings.html
Note that I put in a valve in front of the quick connect because at the low pressure from the regulator the quick connect didn't
seal properly.
If ou were going to just use the T for an external tank I suppose that you could put the T before the regulator and then feed the
high pressure from the external tank directly into the T but I would still suggest the shutoff valve.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Dec 30, 2012, at 9:59 AM, Michael wrote:
>
>
> I may have to explore the idea of plumbing in a T. Space is so limited. I kinda had a few ideas that if the main onboard LP tank
was empty as soon as the tanks pressure is equal gas would low. The 20 lb tank doesn't have a regulator. I'm not in a rush as was
stated LP usage is usually fairly nominal. I only use about a 1/8 tank per day or less now. But we do a lot of cold weather dry
camping and LP is the most valuable fuel source, for heat and cooking. We go with the kids and theres nothing worse then the kids
freezing during a fun camping trip!
>
> I as well have refilled the little 1 lb portable tanks. I have the Mr. Heater Buddy adaptor. Freeze the 1 lb tank for 20 mins. Put
the adaptor on the 20lb tank. Invert the 20 lb, and wait a few mins. 1 lb tank is filled.
>
> Dry camping however is a bit different. The 20 lb tanks not so easy to invert, but not to hard either. Displacing 20lbs of LP is a
lot more then just a little 1 lb tank. Plus its usually freezing cold outside. I wouldn't want to hair dryer the 20 lb tank cause of
battery power use. LP is fairly safe outdoors. The odorant is easy to smell. I'd never have a open flame. Being very cautious is the
main concern of course. But its very stable. LP in closed areas is much more dangerous. It settles and can be there for a long
while. I use soapy water and spray and spray to check connections.
>
> I'll have to examine the T option. I also would like to replace the 13 gal tank for a bigger one, then I think I'd be fine. The 13
gal tank has no leaks but I still cant imagine it shouldn't be replaced at some point in the future. And if I do I'd rather go
bigger.
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: LP add on tank ???? [message #194385 is a reply to message #194171] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 18:22 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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You can get a dual input regulator that has auto switchover from the usual places (camping world, etc) and connect one to your onboard tank and the other to the standby tank. These are what are on the front of most travel trailers where there are two tanks. The stores sell the hoses that have the newer BBQ type connections so you can use that for the new tank and the old style one from the coach on the other one.
I use two BBQ tanks, in a slideout drawer, with the auto swichover regulator. Works great. Has nice little indicators to show full and empty. I think the switch valve works on pressure differential, when one tank is empty, the higher pressure in the full tank rotates the valve. There is also an off position in the middle.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194389 is a reply to message #194385] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 19:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
The PO of The Blue Streak had to replace the OEM LPG tank with BBQ bottles. He used small ones I installed a couple of large ones
and connected them using a manual switching regulator. The reason being is that you could use up both tanks with the auto switching
models.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Choffat
You can get a dual input regulator that has auto switchover from the usual places (camping world, etc) and connect one to your
onboard tank and the other to the standby tank. These are what are on the front of most travel trailers where there are two tanks.
The stores sell the hoses that have the newer BBQ type connections so you can use that for the new tank and the old style one from
the coach on the other one.
I use two BBQ tanks, in a slideout drawer, with the auto swichover regulator. Works great. Has nice little indicators to show full
and empty. I think the switch valve works on pressure differential, when one tank is empty, the higher pressure in the full tank
rotates the valve. There is also an off position in the middle.
--
-Chr$
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP add on tank ???? [message #194391 is a reply to message #194389] |
Sun, 30 December 2012 19:13 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I use two 40# tanks for my fireplace logs in the house with a manual changeover valve & s/s overbraid hoses. I went manual this time because it forces me to recognize that one tank is out and be planning to do a refill run.
The assembly I used was the MANC-SS down near the bottom of the page. http://www.tejassmokers.com/lowpressureregulators.htm
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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