Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE
| [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 11:26  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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One again, I'm acting as an intermediary for an old-time GMC owner. Those
who've been around here very long will know FOR SURE that this request is
NOT for my use (ain't goin' nowhere THAT cold!):
Has anyone devised techniques to prevent freezing of exterior components
while using the GMC during sub-freezing weather? A Colorado resident wants
to be able to use his coach year-round, but is concerned about the macerator,
holding tanks, and associated plumbing. Any ideas I can pass to him?
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192291 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 11:40  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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I have had the holding tank plumbing freeze up and I just waited until the sun came out and thawed it out (in New Mexico we usually had sun most days). When I lived in Michigan I would put salt into the holding tank and that would be enough to prevent freezing. I also, years ago when I had a Travco, wrapped the drain lines with electrical tape that plugs into 120 volts. These can be purchased at the hardware stores. That was only for when the coach was parked and electricity was available.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Dec 5, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> One again, I'm acting as an intermediary for an old-time GMC owner. Those
> who've been around here very long will know FOR SURE that this request is
> NOT for my use (ain't goin' nowhere THAT cold!):
>
> Has anyone devised techniques to prevent freezing of exterior components
> while using the GMC during sub-freezing weather? A Colorado resident wants
> to be able to use his coach year-round, but is concerned about the macerator,
> holding tanks, and associated plumbing. Any ideas I can pass to him?
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192292 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 11:47 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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[quote title=Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 05 December 2012 09:26]One again, I'm acting as an intermediary for an old-time GMC owner. Those
who've been around here very long will know FOR SURE that this request is
NOT for my use (ain't goin' nowhere THAT cold!):
Has anyone devised techniques to prevent freezing of exterior components
while using the GMC during sub-freezing weather? A Colorado resident wants
to be able to use his coach year-round, but is concerned about the macerator,
holding tanks, and associated plumbing. Any ideas I can pass to him?
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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I can tell you the housing on my macerator cracked a couple of years ago when I stopped over night on my way south to warmer climes and that was in Southern California. Probably warmer then Colorado. The macerator is likely the most susceptible part to freeze damage assuming travel with an empty holding tank. The last couple of times I poured some antifreeze into the drains to keep the macerator from freezing.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192293 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 11:48 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Ken,
I use my GMC in sub zero temps. But one thing I just do not do, is use the plumbing. not going to detail what we do about going to the bathroom. But we just bring bottled water. and use the gmc as a nice warm tent. I have thought about trying to get the plumbing to work, but things just freeze too easy. I just would not trust things when it gets that cold. If a tank warmer, or some other heater quits. pop a breaker on electrical stuff. you end up with broken stuff.
I am sure there are things a person can do. But you still run the risk of things freezing. pretty easy. and things freeze pretty quick, once temps drop below 0.
I would think a person could change things to keep things from freezing. Just take some work and thought.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192295 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 11:59 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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A friend that traveled home to Edmonton Canada in February from Southern California winterized his SOB used bottled water and a porta potty for the trip north. He had antifreeze in the external plumbing.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192297 is a reply to message #192295] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 12:18 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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We've used ours on nights when it got to about 25 degrees, all plumbing
including the macerator was OK but I DID put antifreeze into the holding tank
and through the macerator first.
One concern I had is our tankless water heater which is mounted right behind the
refrigerator, where the refrig outside vent is. There must have been enough
coach and refrigerator heat because nothing froze. I would be concerned with
the plumbing if we had extended nights/days below 25 degrees. With the plumbing
winterized we'd line the toilet bowl with porta potty bags and then seal each
one after use. Not fun collecting them and finding a place to dispose of them,
but it works.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: "roy@gmcnet.org" <roy@gmcnet.org>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, December 5, 2012 12:02:32 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE
A friend that traveled home to Edmonton Canada in February from Southern
California winterized his SOB used bottled water and a porta potty for the trip
north. He had antifreeze in the external plumbing.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192299 is a reply to message #192297] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 12:36 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Some very non gmc motorhome links:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/45835-C5500-TopKick-4x4-Crew-Cab-Build
For some info on doing that hard core. The tanks and plumbing are inside
the insulated box with you.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/expedition-vehicles/933305-f-700-4x4-camper.html
Not quite so hard core, a metal frame. Also a good discussion of the issues.
In short, insulate the tanks & plumbing, try to get them thermally coupled
to your living area.
Good luck, let us know how it works out.
Ron
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net> wrote:
> We've used ours on nights when it got to about 25 degrees, all plumbing
> including the macerator was OK but I DID put antifreeze into the holding
> tank
> and through the macerator first.
>
> One concern I had is our tankless water heater which is mounted right
> behind the
> refrigerator, where the refrig outside vent is. There must have been
> enough
> coach and refrigerator heat because nothing froze. I would be concerned
> with
> the plumbing if we had extended nights/days below 25 degrees. With the
> plumbing
> winterized we'd line the toilet bowl with porta potty bags and then seal
> each
> one after use. Not fun collecting them and finding a place to dispose of
> them,
> but it works.
>
>
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "roy@gmcnet.org" <roy@gmcnet.org>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wed, December 5, 2012 12:02:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE
>
>
>
> A friend that traveled home to Edmonton Canada in February from Southern
> California winterized his SOB used bottled water and a porta potty for
> the trip
> north. He had antifreeze in the external plumbing.
> --
> Roy Keen
> Minden,NV
> 76 X Glenbrook
> _______________________________________________
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--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192300 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 12:48 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 05 December 2012 12:26 |
One again, I'm acting as an intermediary for an old-time GMC owner. Those who've been around here very long will know FOR SURE that this request is NOT for my use (ain't goin' nowhere THAT cold!):
Has anyone devised techniques to prevent freezing of exterior components while using the GMC during sub-freezing weather? A Colorado resident wants to be able to use his coach year-round, but is concerned about the macerator, holding tanks, and associated plumbing. Any ideas I can pass to him?
Ken H.
|
Ken,
If the coach is a GMC/Gemini, then the only plumbing that is outside a heated area is the black tank drain. When these coaches were sold, they were sold as "A Four Seasons Coach". Emery's idea of salt in the black tank is real good, but I have never worried about it until after I dump and rinse the black tank. But then again, we have no macerator to worry about. I figure the urea (also used to melt ice were salt is not acceptable) is probably adequate to prevent a hard freeze that could damage anything. This has worked for us when were in freezing weather. Just remember to not leave the potable hose full over night as it is real hard to store as a 25' solid rod.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192326 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 16:13 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My home of 35 years in NW New Jersey was built in 1941 as a lakefront summer house. The water supply line from the street was never buried as the house was on a rock shelf. I spiral wrapped a heat tape along the 90 foot length and slipped a foam sleeve over top. It never gave me a moment's trouble.
I lived for a couple of months in my coach in that same town in November and December. I had previously insulated below and behind the water tank with 1 1/2 inches of rigid foam and, as this was a temporary stay, put an electric heater under the waste tank.
For a long stay I'd suggest a commercial heat pad under the tank with heat tape and foam covering around the drain line, valve, macerator, and pipes. Adding wind blocks around the perimeter of the coach would help and would help keep the interior a little warmer too.
Glenn
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192327 is a reply to message #192288] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 16:37 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
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I have thought about this a few times, as some of the Illinois state parks can be very scenic in the winter, but the restrooms at most of them are closed November-March. So I really would like at least the bathroom to work.
Having said that, I have never actually done any winter camping, as I get scared around the middle of November and always punt when I buy a few gallons of the pink stuff and do the drill.
All that said, I have considered Matt's points. Most of the tanks/plumbing in the GMC upfitted coaches are in the (heated) living area. This includes the fresh water tanks, and the electric hot water heater tank.
I have an Eleganza II with wet bath on passenger side and kitchen on drivers side. The fresh water tank is on passenger side just behind bathroom. Plumbing runs from fresh water toank to bathroom, then across ceiling to kitchen. I know that heat rises and those pipes *should* stay above freezing if the furnace is working, but none the less I would be very tempted to put shutoff valve(s) in the bathroom and just not use the kitchen sink or the pipes running to it.
Since the GMC coaches only have the one holding tank, there is no grey tank to worry about; so that leaves the black tank itself, drain pipe from the black tank and most likely a macerator. I have not bought one of these yet, but have looked at their web site many times. http://www.ultraheat.com/ offers tank heaters, and pipe and elbow heaters. I would want to be staying at a campground that had electricity available if I were to try this.
I have also read that pouring a cup or so of pink antifreeze down the toilet after each flush is sometimes suggested.
Of course, to keep those inside tanks above freezing, you would want to make sure the furnace is working and would likey go through propane quickly.
Around here we usually get a few days below 0F, but not too many of them.
If I ever get brave enough to try this, it would likely only be for a long weekend, and I would hope temps stay above 0F and I will report here how it goes...
Then I will also report back in the spring and tell you how much plumbing and tanks I had to replace.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
[Updated on: Wed, 05 December 2012 16:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winter GMC USE [message #192329 is a reply to message #192328] |
Wed, 05 December 2012 16:44 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I wonder about running a loop of engine coolant past your tank and macerator
as a way to heat them when driving, and defrost. How about a specific pipe
to add anti freeze to the macerator only? Insulate the bottoms and sides of
the black water tank, and the macerator?
Good luck. I don't think these things were really meant to be out in real
cold.
But please let us know what you do, and how the cold works out.
Ron
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 2:37 PM, A. <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 05 December 2012 11:26
> > One again, I'm acting as an intermediary for an old-time GMC owner.
> Those who've been around here very long will know FOR SURE that this
> request is NOT for my use (ain't goin' nowhere THAT cold!):
> >
> > Has anyone devised techniques to prevent freezing of exterior components
> while using the GMC during sub-freezing weather? A Colorado resident wants
> to be able to use his coach year-round, but is concerned about the
> macerator, holding tanks, and associated plumbing. Any ideas I can pass to
> him?
> >
> > Ken H.
> > Americus, GA
> > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> It would help if we knew more about the environment. Shore power
> available for the duration? A toad comprised of a 250 gallon propane tank?
> Schedule and budget for insulation?
> For example, if it is going to be in one place for months with shore
> power, maybe just underpinning the thing like a house trailer and some
> electric heat tape strips for pipes applied strategically.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> "Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
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--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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