Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] oil testing
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil testing [message #191377 is a reply to message #191374] |
Mon, 26 November 2012 22:09   |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Only thing being, that's all new oil, how will they hold up in your engine,
what will they be like just before an oil change?
There was a thread on the SwedishBricks Volvo list about oil change
intervals with Mobile 1 (the one true oil), people had used testing
services to push intervals out to 12,000 miles. One guy changed his every
25,000, he has worn out several, with no problems related to lubrication.
We do the best we can with VERY limited data.
Ron
On Nov 26, 2012 7:25 PM, "Kosier" <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Just read an interesting article on testing oils. Shoots a lot of fables
> we’ve been passing around.
> See www.cadillacpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15270
>
> Gary Kosier
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil testing [message #191401 is a reply to message #191374] |
Tue, 27 November 2012 08:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Very interesting. I tried, without success, to find the preceding posting,
which apparently gave more information on the test equipment and procedures
and covered more, more plebian oils.
As for practical value, it has little, as far as I can see, since it
doesn't cover readily available oils. About the only conclusion it leads
me to, and that's really a WAG, is that the Valvoline VR1 oils may be a
good bet.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Kosier wrote:
> Just read an interesting article on testing oils. Shoots a lot of fables
> we’ve been passing around.
> See www.cadillacpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15270
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil testing [message #191490 is a reply to message #191401] |
Wed, 28 November 2012 12:32 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
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Ken,
I'm a little disappointed that you only looked at the test results and not
at the
conclusion that resulted from them.
However, here is the earlier posting on the subject.
www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483
Gary Kosier
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:27 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] oil testing
Very interesting. I tried, without success, to find the preceding posting,
which apparently gave more information on the test equipment and procedures
and covered more, more plebian oils.
As for practical value, it has little, as far as I can see, since it
doesn't cover readily available oils. About the only conclusion it leads
me to, and that's really a WAG, is that the Valvoline VR1 oils may be a
good bet.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Kosier wrote:
> Just read an interesting article on testing oils. Shoots a lot of fables
> we’ve been passing around.
> See www.cadillacpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15270
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil testing [message #191498 is a reply to message #191490] |
Wed, 28 November 2012 13:11 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I read the conclusions but applying them requires the test results. The
first part certainly covers a wider variety of available oils.
Thanks,
Ken
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I'm a little disappointed that you only looked at the test results and not
> at the
> conclusion that resulted from them.
> However, here is the earlier posting on the subject.
> www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483
>
> Gary Kosier
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:27 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] oil testing
>
> Very interesting. I tried, without success, to find the preceding posting,
> which apparently gave more information on the test equipment and
> procedures
> and covered more, more plebian oils.
>
> As for practical value, it has little, as far as I can see, since it
> doesn't cover readily available oils. About the only conclusion it leads
> me to, and that's really a WAG, is that the Valvoline VR1 oils may be a
> good bet.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Kosier wrote:
>
> > Just read an interesting article on testing oils. Shoots a lot of
> fables
> > we’ve been passing around.
> > See www.cadillacpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15270
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil testing [message #191541 is a reply to message #191498] |
Wed, 28 November 2012 18:01 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, I got an idea. Most of my digital meters have a capacity range or two. I'm gonna make up a pair if plates and try dipping them in gas and gasohol and see what the difference is. I post the results.
Â
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] oil testing
Gary,
I read the conclusions but applying them requires the test results. The
first part certainly covers a wider variety of available oils.
Thanks,
Ken
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I'm a little disappointed that you only looked at the test results and not
> at the
> conclusion that resulted from them.
> However, here is the earlier posting on the subject.
> www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483
>
> Gary Kosier
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:27 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] oil testing
>
> Very interesting. I tried, without success, to find the preceding posting,
> which apparently gave more information on the test equipment and
> procedures
> and covered more, more plebian oils.
>
> As for practical value, it has little, as far as I can see, since it
> doesn't cover readily available oils. About the only conclusion it leads
> me to, and that's really a WAG, is that the Valvoline VR1 oils may be a
> good bet.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Kosier wrote:
>
> > Just read an interesting article on testing oils. Shoots a lot of
> fables
> > we’ve been passing around.
> > See www.cadillacpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15270
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil testing [message #191591 is a reply to message #191545] |
Thu, 29 November 2012 07:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I'm more interested in repeatability than fancy. I'll submerge, and the sensor is gonna be buiklt as a unit so everything stays the same relative to everything else.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: A. <markbb1@netzero.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] oil testing
Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 28 November 2012 18:01
> Well, I got an idea. Most of my digital meters have a capacity range or two. I'm gonna make up a pair if plates and try dipping them in gas and gasohol and see what the difference is. I post the results.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
Of course tests will have to be conducted with the plates the same depth in each sample as well as seperated by the same distance.
Seems like I recall that the T-37 fuel level was measured by concentric cylinders in the tank and display was based on changes in capacitance as the fuel level changed.
--
'73 23' Sequoia
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Sometimes 'free' is too expensive."
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil [message #192708 is a reply to message #191374] |
Mon, 10 December 2012 07:21 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Maybe one of the gurus will speak here - I'm thinking Aeroshell 40 weight. It's formulated to run in a flat tappet engine. It's formulated for aviation engines, but yuo gotta wodner whether it might work in a GMC. Only concern is, we used to run non-detergent oil in the flat motors till the rings began to seat and then switch to Aeroshell.
Anybody?
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Dolph Santorine <dolph@dolphsantorine.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil
ARRRRGH...... ZDDP ZOMBIES.
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
On Dec 8, 2012, at 9:45 PM, rallymaster@juno.com wrote:
>
> NO, don't throw up your hands and run.
>
> I was just wondering if anyone wanted to share their choice of oil for
> the first thousand or so on a newly rebuilt GMC engine.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron & Linda Clark
> 1978 Eleganza II
> North Plains, ORYGUN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil [message #192718 is a reply to message #192708] |
Mon, 10 December 2012 09:40 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Johnny-
Since I'm not doing the weekly Orlando shuffle anymore (my Dad is doing much, much better), I thought I would do something beyond my usual feeble attempt at humor.
There are a lot of different opinions on the whole oil situation, and it's almost entirely about the additive package, and less about the base oil itself (synthetic or mineral).
With the risk of starting "oil-mageddon", here's the view from my seat.
1. I'm not big on Oil Additives. I'm not a chemist. I don't understand that branch of chemistry. Who knows what the combination might be?
2. Unlike my daily driver, which "miles out" it's oil before it times it out, the motor home is different.
3. The engine in the Spec Miata is modern by comparison, so those rules don't apply.
4. The 455 is a flat tappet engine (thank you Mr. Obvious)
There is enough old car work being done around here, and I've since found a machine shop that does both dirt track SBC and restoration SBC/BBC. Our kind of shop. A couple of apprentices and an attention to detail that's rare. He does a lot for a number of big time restoration companies in the midwest, and get's completely anal about what he recommends. Hold that though for a second.
The detergent was added to oil to make the filters work better when they became standard on automobiles. It's a surficant, and, as I understand it, the skin effect helps those little bits of metal floating around in the oil get attached to the filter medium.
It also let's those grinding stick to engine parts, an can cause a host of other problems.
So, it's there for the filter. If you want to get the bad stuff out in the break in period, it's probably exactly the opposite of what you need.
So, here is what I learned at lunch with a different group of guru's
The Dirt Track guys tend to run a Valvoline VR-1 like oil in break in and for the life of the engine.
The old car guys around here run non-detergent 30 weight for break in (small engine oil), and are pretty evenly divided between multi viscosity and a straight weight for the life of the engine.
The aircraft guys have to document it all, and are limited to utilizing approved lubricants, but non-detergent break in and detergent for life makes perfect sense.
I don't have an engine to break in right now. I have a couple of old flat tappet engines. I'm running multi-viscosity VR-1 in both of them.
In the daily drives, I run whatever is on sale at the auto parts emporium or the drive in oil change shed.
All that being said, I do believe that zinc content is great for older, flat tappet engines. I don't know how much of a difference it's going to make over the life of the engine. Has there been any research done on it, and is the delta significant enough to be worth the investment?
I think your approach is sound. When I replace the 455 in the motorhome, I'm going to follow the builders recommendation for the break in period.
Beyond that, I like strawberry.
Dolph
On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:21 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Maybe one of the gurus will speak here - I'm thinking Aeroshell 40 weight. It's formulated to run in a flat tappet engine. It's formulated for aviation engines, but yuo gotta wodner whether it might work in a GMC. Only concern is, we used to run non-detergent oil in the flat motors till the rings began to seat and then switch to Aeroshell.
> Anybody?
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
>
> From: Dolph Santorine <dolph@dolphsantorine.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil
>
> ARRRRGH...... ZDDP ZOMBIES.
>
>
> Dolph Santorine
>
> DE N8JPC
> Wheeling, West Virginia
> dolph@dolphsantorine.com
>
> 1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
> TZE167V100820
>
> 1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
> TZE166V101610
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2012, at 9:45 PM, rallymaster@juno.com wrote:
>
>>
>> NO, don't throw up your hands and run.
>>
>> I was just wondering if anyone wanted to share their choice of oil for
>> the first thousand or so on a newly rebuilt GMC engine.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ron & Linda Clark
>> 1978 Eleganza II
>> North Plains, ORYGUN
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil [message #192720 is a reply to message #192718] |
Mon, 10 December 2012 10:26 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:40 AM, Dolph Santorine <dolph@dolphsantorine.com> wrote:
>
>
> The detergent was added to oil to make the filters work better when they became standard on automobiles. It's a surficant, and, as I understand it, the skin effect helps those little bits of metal floating around in the oil get attached to the filter medium.
>
> It also let's those grinding stick to engine parts, an can cause a host of other problems.
Dolph
Please understand that I am not trying to be critical of you but your email has a lot of misinformation about oil.
The paragraph quoted above about detergents is especially incorrect. The detergents in oil do not cause things to stick to filters or metal parts. It is the opposite. It causes the cleaning of particles , varnish, etc from engine parts. Think of surfactants as soap. You use a detergent to wash clothes or dishes at home. It works very similarly in the engine. It will dissolve deposits on engine parts and keep them in suspension so they don't "stick to engine parts".
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil [message #192763 is a reply to message #191374] |
Wed, 12 December 2012 02:59 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ron,
Yep!
Frankly I don’t bother changing it every 3000 miles; I change the oil and filter once a year when we finish our tour which runs
between 4 - 5 thousand miles.
The engine in Double Trouble was built by Ken Frey about 85,000 miles ago and it burns about the same amount of oil as your engine.
It runs around 19 inches of vacuum at idle, has good compression on all eight cylinders, runs at 45-50 psi oil pressure at highway
speed and sounds good! It drives the wheels through a 3.21 to 1 final drive. I drive the speed limit whether it's 65 - 70 or 75. I
did conduct an experiment once and drove at 55 for a couple of days. I noted that my oil consumption dropped along with my gas
consumption. ;-)
The reason I don't bother changing it at 3000 miles is because the Maintenance Schedule published by GMC requiring the oil change at
3000 miles is damn near 40 years old!
The additive packages in engine oil have changed (improved?) since then and I reckon once a year will suffice.
I have an aluminum radiator in Double Trouble and the water temp runs at 180° F consistently. I have a thermocouple that I will be
installing in the oil lines to monitor the oil temp. I doubt that with a water temp of 180° F that the oil temp will run anywhere
near the temperature that its lubricating properties break down.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: rallymaster@juno.com [mailto:rallymaster@juno.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:08 PM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil
So, essentially, Rob, that would be using the same oil immediately after
the rebuild as would be used for the rest of the engine's life. Only
changing it after a thousand or so, then at 3K, or thereabouts,
intervals.
The reason I'm asking is that I have a newly rebuilt engine with about
10K miles on it that's still burning about a qt. of oil in 400 miles, and
I'm trying to find out why.
No visible leaks (no oil on the ground where it's parked), the rebuilder
says no blow-by, and no visible smoke after the light gray stuff goes
away when the engine warms up.
RonC
On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 16:12:21 +1100 "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
writes:
> Ron,
>
> For the hell of it I went back through my folder "Oil" and found
> recommendations for:
>
> Amsoil AMO10W-40
> Castrol Edge 5W-50 with Syntec
> Delo 400 40W
> Mobil 1 15w50 Synthetic
> Shell Rotella T 15W-40
> Shell Rotella T 15W-40 Synthetic
> And MORE!
>
> AFAIC it would be the same for a GMC engine with LOTS of miles on it
> Shell Rotella 15W-40 with five oz of SFR Oil Fortifier:
>
> http://www.sfrcorp.com/product/sfr-100-petroleum-oil-fortifier
>
> I've got and order in for some of the Molybdenum oil additive that a
> fellow GMCer uses. Next time he orders a batch I'm in!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rallymaster@juno.com
>
> NO, don't throw up your hands and run.
>
> I was just wondering if anyone wanted to share their choice of oil
> for the first thousand or so on a newly rebuilt GMC engine.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron & Linda
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
Ron & Linda Clark
1978 Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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