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| [GMCnet] Running Again After 19 Years [message #189840] |
Sat, 10 November 2012 19:16  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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I've been sort of holding out on Y'All: About 3 weeks ago a Dixielander in
Montgomery, AL, Bill Hutchinson, called to ask me to spread the word that a
GMC was available cheaply in his area. A widow had called him to say that
their '76 Eleganza II had been parked at Gunter AFS since 1999. She was
ready to sell it for $2500. Having seen it from time to time over the
years, he thought it might be a good buy. After another friend visited to
view the coach and found it too much for him to tackle at 82, I started
spreding the word locally.
As a result, John Beaver, my local racing engine builder buddy, and I left
here at 0830 EDT (I'd been awake since 0230) on Friday, 2 Nov. for the 150
mile drive to check it out. When we arrived at 1030 CDT, our friend
already had the RV storage lot open and here's what we found:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qbdf9052ovibcbk/hCygZ8j8Z-
TZE166V100105, a '76 Eleganza with modified exterior paint in quite good
condition considering its time unattended. The interior, while it was
obviously once a VERY nice coach is trashed. The side window behind the
driver was slid to the rear about 2" -- obviously since the coach was
parked. The forward overhead vent's cap was missing and the screen full of
pine needles. Obviously everything nearly beneath that opening had been
repeatedly soaked. Two twin size foam mattresses lay to each side behind
the cockpit and on the floor was a 1' high pile of rolled carpets, from the
rear bed to the cockpit step. Yet despite all that, the attractive
hard-finished headliner panels, except around the open vent, looked good.
And the molded, plastic wood-grained cabinets looked great.
The outside base paint is apparently original Imron, but it was
over-sprayed with the shown highlight color. Despite a deep coat of
accumulated dirt & fungus, a moist finger rubbed anywhere quickly yielded a
shiny surface. The license plate's latest sticker was for 1993, which we
believe is the actual date when the coach was last driven.
The engine and drive train all looked pretty good with little accumulated
grease and oil. The frame showed little rust and no separation of the
doubled areas. Both air bags were flat and the left one looked worse than
any I'd ever seen. Surprisingly, all 6 Michelin all-steel tires still held
some air.
Content with the body condition, John wanted to hear the engine run before
making an offer for the coach, so we changed the oil and filter, filled the
radiator with water, water pump lubricant and a partial bottle of
stop-leak, and squirted ATF+acetone into the cylinders. A gentle pull of a
socket wrench on the crank pulley bolt showed the engine to turn freely.
With a battery installed, the starter spun the engine very nicely,
spraying our red penetrant all under the fenders where we'd removed the
liners.
We installed a set of old AC7 spark plugs I'd brought and connected little
Mr. Gasket electric fuel pump between a 5 g. can and the inlet to the
mechanical fuel pump. After just a couple of spins spins, the engine fired
right up, with the choke operating as advertised. Then it quit.
Fortunately. Because we soon discovered a puddle of gas beneath the
mechanical pump. Turned out, the lower body had a crack in it and was
spraying fuel all down that side of the engine.
Using an electric wiper kit PS elbow from my tool box, we connected the
electric pump directly to the carburetor and tried again. Now it wouldn't
run start. After checking the carb filter and fiddling around for a while,
we figured out that the electric pump had lost its prime (we'd had the same
problem earlier). With that fixed, the engine started and ran quite well,
with no tappet noise and only a single cylinder misfiring. The exhaust was
pretty smokey for a while but finally cleared up. The right iron exhaust
manifold, with 4 bolts already backed out 1/4", was noisy.
Liking what he'd learned so far, we got the widow on-scene and John made a
deal with her to purchase the coach (which she had a deadline for removal
from the base). That settled and bill of sale in hand, We all set to work
to see if it could be rolled and driven. Bill offered the use of his spare
air bag to replace the terrible one, and we'd brought the 6 wheels from my
coach, "just in case". But first we began to check the brakes. It didn't
take long to see the water in the front MC reservoir, but the rear one, for
the front brakes, was full of brake fluid, so our hopes were aroused. I'd
brought one of my spare rebuilt MC's, so I quickly installed that. In the
process, I discovered the unusual, to me, MC/Booster seal shown in the
Gunter MC sub folder.
After "bench bleeding" the MC in place on the coach, we discovered that the
calipers were frozen solid; no amount of foot pressure, with or without
vacuum boost, would budge them -- the discs still rotated. That pretty
well wound up our wildly optimistic hope to drive the coach back home.
After reloading the gasoline generator and electric air compressor we'd
brought in John's pickup, along with all the miscellaneous tools, parts,
fluids, rags, etc., etc., we went to dinner at Golden Corral. Then on to
Harbor Freight to swap out my recently failed 1/2" impact wrench. With no
receipt, they wouldn't honor the warranty. But they would honor a
retroactive 2 year service contract available for $9.95, so we added that
to my other $40 worth of junk before leaving.
We finally got back to Americus, exhausted, at about midnight, having laid
the plans for the next trip a week later -- yesterday, 9 Nov. More about
that later.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| [GMCnet] Fwd: Running Again After 19 Years [message #189862 is a reply to message #189840] |
Sat, 10 November 2012 20:35  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Yesterday morning, 9 Nov, John Beaver picked me up at 0615 EST for the next
episode in the Gunter Eleganza rescue. While I'd only slept a couple of
hours before the last trip, this time I had a good solid 7 hours to carry
me through the day -- thank Goodness!
When we arrived, Bill again had the RV storage lot opened and was ready to
go to work. So we unloaded the generator, air compressor, foot locker full
of parts and tools, tool box, impact wrench, 4" grinder, die grinder, and
miscellaneous other stuff from John's pickup.
While John began to install the new 80 mm calipers on the front, Bill and I
cut the too-rusted bolts holding the T-skirts so we could get those out of
our way -- and to protect them from the possibility of one of those antique
bags failing. We were glad to find that the R. air bag was still up from
last week, as were the tires we'd inflated.
The decrepit L. air bag came off easily, but the replacement gave us a
little trouble when the air inlet end fitting came out of the bag.
Fortunately, the O-ring still looked good, so I applied Teflon tape and
reassembled it. We had only a little trouble with that task and turned to
removing the old 16.5" wheels. We treated all the well-rusted lug nuts
with ATF+Acetone penetrant. Then, with a BIG 4-way lug wrench, two
different impact wrenches, and a 3' cheater pipe, we finally got all the
rear wheels off. Only one lug bolt spun in the hub, forcing Bill to go
home for a grinder with cutting wheel to remove that wheel.
By the time Bill and I had accomplished our little jobs, John had the 80 mm
calipers installed. He'd ground off the interfering external bump in his
shop. But, as Dave Lenzi warned us at Amana, the calipers struck the
knuckle -- so much so that he couldn't even install the second mounting
bolt before removing the interference. Luckily I'd remembered to warn him
to bring along a die grinder; its carbide burr made quick work of that
problem.
Thankfully, the front calipers gravity bled so we didn't even have to pull
out Jim H.'s pressure bleeder that I'd brought along. Nor did the
combination valve require depression of the front pin. A respectable pedal
height was achieved on the first pedal push, and quickly improved to Very
good.
With the engine feeding from a 5 gallon can tied on the front bumper, via
the little Mr. Gasket electric pump (powered from the yellow Aux power at
the HVAC dropping resistor) directly to the carburetor, it ran well for a
short test drive inside the storage lot. With the new front brakes and the
already rust-dragging rear drums, the coach stopped very nicely, trying to
slide rear tires on the gravel during light stops. This was about noon, so
we broke for a sandwich and cookies lunch. Bill had to leave to meet
guests.
It was now the time we'd intended to depart for Georgia, but the more we
considered driving 150 miles with 25 mile apart stops to refill the 5
gallon can on the front bumper, and 50 mile apart service station stops to
refill that can and our spare, the less we liked the idea. I'd already
determined that I'd only make a pretzel of the Allen wrench trying to
remove the tanks' drain plugs,. By blowing into the fuel line from the
tanks, we found that there was no sound of gasoline in the tanks. So we
decided to try to run from them.
By now, what with miscellaneous tasks done and the pickup reloaded, it was
about 1530 -- near "quitting time" on the base. With the BX service
station only 2 blocks away, we decided to drive there to put gas in the
on-board tanks. That went off without a hitch. After filling the tanks
with about 30 gallons, John pulled the coach to a remote corner of the
parking lot and crawled under to switch the electric pump's input from the
bumper tank to the on-board tank. The engine fired right up and seemed to
run well, so we decided to head home, spirits high.
As a parting joke as I headed to the pickup, I told John, "It's running
nice -- though you may not make it to the gate (which was 200 yards away)."
As I cranked the pickup, John pulled across the 4-lane street toward the
gate. Before I started rolling, he'd stopped -- diagonally parked in a
no-parking area blocking 2/3 of one of the two about to be full traffic
lanes.
Remember, this was 1600. Within 30 minutes, there were two solid lanes of
traffic streaming past us. It's a tribute to military organization and
flexibility that that traffic flowed around us without a burble. No one
tried to run over us. Not one horn blew. Not one finger waved. When the
Security Police finally showed up, they only parked 100 yards behind us
with the blue light on -- never approached us.
For the next hour we fooled with trying to get fuel to the carb. The pump
simply would not prime. We could get gravity flow by sucking on the bottom
feed line, but the pump couldn't sustain it. We decided there must be an
air leak somewhere in the line to the tanks. Sure 'nuff, there was a leak
at the outlet of the selector valve. Finding one of the lines feeding the
selector to be completely disintegrated (visibly open), we cut the other.
Although that line was hard as iron, it seemed to be fluid-tight.
On the previous Friday I'd brought along a replacement 3/8" oil dipstick
tube because Bill had said there was a problem with the one installed.
Truer words were never spoken: The installed dipstick turned 90* to
horizontal immediately above its hole in the block, then turned back
vertical immediately outboard of the iron manifold, which had been machined
so much there was no room between it and the block. There's no way to
thread a dipstick through there!
Now we had a use for that replacement dipstick -- a splice connector to
bypass the fuel tank selector switch, which we did, with our floor jack
holding the coach up and rolling around on the pavement as the "going home"
traffic streamed by 4' away. To no avail: The pump STILL would not prime.
While the little thing seemed to be trying, and would draw a finger a
little, we decided we needed a new pump.
With some trepidation, I took John's pickup and headed out to find a parts
store. After stopping at a truck accessories store, I headed for Advance
Auto, where I found only a plastic version of the little metal Mr. Gasket
pump we were trying to use. On to Auto Zone, with the same result. Then
to O'Reilly's to have the obviously novice clerk ask for an "application".
He finally, reluctantly, went to the Mr. Gasket shelf and offered a high
pressure version of the little plastic fellow. Then he found the low
pressure version. When I asked whether there was anyone with more
knowledge of the inventory, he headed into the warehouse area -- and stayed
-- and stayed -- until I was shouting for him to come back and check me
out with the Mr. Gasket ($2 more than at AZ). When he finally came back,
he had a $69.95 Airtex, 5-9.5 psi pump. I bought that.
When I turned back into Gunter AFS, "Retreat" was being played so all
traffic was stopped. My fears returned that the Security Police would have
John in cuffs, for being loose on the base with no military ID nor
authorization to be there. And that they'd be waiting to arrest me for
having left my visitor unescorted.
John was not in custody and reported that the SP's had only asked what the
problem was, and offered any help we might call for.
After the new pump STILL would not prime, we decided to run on the bumper
tank to AutoZone, where there was a large, well lighted, little occupied
parking lot. Arriving there without incident, we told the staff our
intentions and went to an excellent home style buffet at "The Fried Green
Tomato". Excellent meal, despite our filthy condition.
Back at the coach, Bill found still another leak, where the rubber line
from the selector switch (now our splice) connects to the front clip's
steel line. To fix that, we bought a 5' prefabricated fuel line and 3' of
30R7 hose (they had NO 30R14 nor 30R9). By the time we had that installed,
the store had close at 2100 (9PM) and turned off the lights, leaving us
almost in the dark. Of course, all our flashlights were also about
depleted by now.
STILL no priming. Well, we jumped through a lot more loops, including, we
estimated, iteration 37 of transferring the fuel line between the on-board
circuit and the bumper tank. About 2200, (11 PM EST at home), we decided
we had no alternative but to run on the bumper tank. What with gas station
stops and other delays, it was 0200 CST when SHE called me. We were at a
Waste Disposal Station (huge dumpsters with ramps up to there tops for
public use) between Opelika and Phenix City, AL. Despite the hour, we were
determined to get rid of those putrid mattresses and carpet scraps. When
we finally got down to the floor, we began to walk carefully: the years of
rain have left only sagging carpet to support one's weight between the
floor joists. :-(
John finally dropped me off at home at 0430 EST. I was in bed, after an
all-over bath in Permatex Fast Orange Smooth hand soap, by 0530. Finally
climbed back out at 0930 this morning -- and have moved only to go help
John unload his pickup. AFTER he got back from his 0630 deer hunting trip!
Beats me how he did it.
The GMC's now at its new home. At times it ran well; at others it barely
made it up little hills at 40 mph, only to climb the next higher one at 60
mph. But then, we didn't install the spare carb, nor even replace the bad
accelerator pump. It probably was not a bad recovery considering that it
probably hadn't moved in the previous 19 years. It could have gone better
if we'd not been so stubborn about trying to use the on-board tanks. Or if
we'd know earlier how little damage it would have done to cut down to the
tanks through the rotten floor.
I suspect I won't be involved in another one. :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Running Again After 19 Years [message #189881 is a reply to message #189840] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 13:43 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken,,,,I have my eye on a 23' in Tupelo. Since you're an expert {should we call you Lazuros} how about giving me a hand. Hasn't run in 22yrs,,,,,PL (just kidding Ken)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Running Again After 19 Years [message #189883 is a reply to message #189881] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 13:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bring it on!
(to my house -- then we'll talk about it.)
Ken H.
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Paul Leavitt wrote:
>
> Ken,,,,I have my eye on a 23' in Tupelo. Since you're an expert {should we
> call you Lazuros} how about giving me a hand. Hasn't run in 22yrs,,,,,PL
> (just kidding Ken)
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: Running Again After 19 Years [message #189884 is a reply to message #189875] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 14:04 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sun, 11 November 2012 09:45 |
| Ken Henderson |
I suspect I won't be involved in another one. 
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Somehow I doubt that...  Thanks for a great write up. Anyone take any photos?
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Kerry, click on Ken's link in the first post.
Considering the water damage, the coach really doesn't look too bad. It is a shame the old girl had to take water. I think it was once very nice.
Great story. I always am amazed when a hunk of iron sits, waiting, for years and when we apply a little spark and gas it comes to life again, as if it were yesterday. Well, almost.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Running Again After 19 Years [message #189891 is a reply to message #189881] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 16:00 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| g.winger wrote on Sun, 11 November 2012 13:43 |
Ken,,,,I have my eye on a 23' in Tupelo. Since you're an expert {should we call you Lazuros} how about giving me a hand. Hasn't run in 22yrs,,,,,PL (just kidding Ken)
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Whereabouts in Tupelo? If a few miles East of Tupelo, I might be able to assist.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: Running Again After 19 Years [message #189913 is a reply to message #189862] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 18:40 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Ken,
That is a great write up. I've done a few recoveries of vehicles and the Glenbrook I have now.
And yes, I felt very tired and said I wouldn't do it again, but overall it was full of satisfaction and fun at the accomplishment achieved.
Yes I would do it again.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
[Updated on: Sun, 11 November 2012 18:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: Running Again After 19 Years [message #189936 is a reply to message #189862] |
Mon, 12 November 2012 00:58 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I guess I missed it, but why didn't you just use the OEM mechanical pump?
I moved one once a little over 300 miles with three 5 gallon gas cans, a 7 foot piece of gas line, three bungee straps, and a piece of plywood cut to match the bottom of the gas cans. We used the plywood to prevent the bumper from wearing a hole in the bottom of the plastic gas cans. We also had a piece of foam to place between the can and the front of the coach.
One bungee held the plywood to the bottom of the can and the other two held the can to the top of the bumper. We ran the 6 foot hose out of the top of the can and attached it to the input side of the mechanical pump. Every time it ran out of gas we would stop and switch the cans. We used 7 cans of fuel during the trip. We also carried 2 replacement fuel filters for the carb. We ended up not needing them.
I did a similar thing for someone who just wanted to move one locally, only we only needed one can of fuel.
Second suggestion, When you can not get a GMC fuel pump to prime from the main tanks after the fuel lines have been opened, use a rag and an air source. Remove the hose on the input side of the pump and add air pressure to the tanks using the gas fill tube. When gas starts flowing out of the fuel line push the line on to the input of the fuel pump and of course immediately remove the air pressure. It does not take much air to get the fuel to flow. If you remove the air pressure before you attach the line to the pump all of the gas in the line will run back to the tanks and you will have to start the air pressure process all over again. This really take two people to do this.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: Running Again After 19 Years [message #189939 is a reply to message #189936] |
Mon, 12 November 2012 06:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I think I mentioned that after the first start we found that the mechanical
pump had a crack which allowed gas to spray everywhere. We didn't have a
spare mechanical pump and they're too much trouble to replace anyway. I've
convinced John that he needs to eliminate the selector valve (pre-ethanol)
and install an electric pump per tank; might as well start now.
Since we had a pickup to carry the spare gas can, we only rope-tied one can
to the bumper and through the grille opening; it shows no sign of "jiggle"
wear. One of the spare oil dipstick tubes I had served to pick up from the
bottom of the jug. We didn't need a spare filter either -- probably
because we didn't feed the pre-ethanol deposits from the on-board tanks.
By the time we got to the need for pressurizing the tanks to prime the pump
we'd already loaded the generator and compressor. And we'd discovered that
one of the tanks' output tube was completely deteriorated -- I was afraid
of blowing it, and the other, apart even worse.
All good suggestions, just not applicable in our situation.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> I guess I missed it, but why didn't you just use the OEM mechanical pump?
>
> I moved one once a little over 300 miles with three 5 gallon gas cans...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Running Again After 19 Years [message #189941 is a reply to message #189902] |
Mon, 12 November 2012 06:56 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Aw, I LIKE my 23.... fits in parking lots and turns corners properly.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Paul Leavitt <leavittpaul@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Running Again After 19 Years
No,,,,it was a joke,,,no 23 for me!!!!
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: Running Again After 19 Years [message #189943 is a reply to message #189939] |
Mon, 12 November 2012 07:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 12 November 2012 06:42 |
Ken,
I think I mentioned that after the first start we found that the mechanical
pump had a crack which allowed gas to spray everywhere. We didn't have a
spare mechanical pump and they're too much trouble to replace anyway. I've
convinced John that he needs to eliminate the selector valve (pre-ethanol)
and install an electric pump per tank; might as well start now.
Since we had a pickup to carry the spare gas can, we only rope-tied one can
to the bumper and through the grille opening; it shows no sign of "jiggle"
wear. One of the spare oil dipstick tubes I had served to pick up from the
bottom of the jug. We didn't need a spare filter either -- probably
because we didn't feed the pre-ethanol deposits from the on-board tanks.
By the time we got to the need for pressurizing the tanks to prime the pump
we'd already loaded the generator and compressor. And we'd discovered that
one of the tanks' output tube was completely deteriorated -- I was afraid
of blowing it, and the other, apart even worse.
All good suggestions, just not applicable in our situation.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> I guess I missed it, but why didn't you just use the OEM mechanical pump?
>
> I moved one once a little over 300 miles with three 5 gallon gas cans...
|
I messed the fact that the OEM mechanical pump was bad....Sorry
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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