Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189493 is a reply to message #189473] |
Wed, 07 November 2012 17:47   |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
I don't have the answer and am anxious to hear it. But I did learn
something interesting last Friday. Remember Dave Lenzi's presentation at
Amana, where he described the problem with the new "metric" boosters from
MBM? That is, the "nose" of the Master Cylinder (MC) does not fit snugly
into the recess in the front of the booster and doesn't hold the seal in
place? And remember the adapter he made to both center the nose and retain
the seal?
Well, when I R&R'd the MC on the early 76 Eleganza we're recovering from
Montgomery, AL, I found that its seal was not the expected flat disc, but a
cup, very much like Dave's creation except that it's an integral design! I
called Dave & he'd never seen nor heard of such. Has anyone else? That's
probably the design we should have to ensure both centering and sealing.
Here are some photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zi81pjwyk8mwf2f/UZgMqWvGuH
or
http://goo.gl/5Sn5b
Ken H.
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> Someone had once posted a source for the seal that goes around the push
> rod in the front of the brake booster.
> Does anyone have that information?
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189534 is a reply to message #189493] |
Wed, 07 November 2012 20:33 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Obviously, someone is making a "correct" metric replacement booster,
with the necessary seal adapter. Now, the trick is to find out who!
Gary Kosier
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 6:47 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal
Emery,
I don't have the answer and am anxious to hear it. But I did learn
something interesting last Friday. Remember Dave Lenzi's presentation at
Amana, where he described the problem with the new "metric" boosters from
MBM? That is, the "nose" of the Master Cylinder (MC) does not fit snugly
into the recess in the front of the booster and doesn't hold the seal in
place? And remember the adapter he made to both center the nose and retain
the seal?
Well, when I R&R'd the MC on the early 76 Eleganza we're recovering from
Montgomery, AL, I found that its seal was not the expected flat disc, but a
cup, very much like Dave's creation except that it's an integral design! I
called Dave & he'd never seen nor heard of such. Has anyone else? That's
probably the design we should have to ensure both centering and sealing.
Here are some photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zi81pjwyk8mwf2f/UZgMqWvGuH
or
http://goo.gl/5Sn5b
Ken H.
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> Someone had once posted a source for the seal that goes around the push
> rod in the front of the brake booster.
> Does anyone have that information?
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189552 is a reply to message #189534] |
Wed, 07 November 2012 21:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I don't think that's a metric booster on the Eleganza. The coach hasn't
been moved nor worked on since at least 1999, and probably 1993. I think
that's the original booster & MC & seal between them.
Wish we could find something like that, but I won't hold my breath.
Ken H.
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Kosier wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Obviously, someone is making a "correct" metric replacement booster,
> with the necessary seal adapter. Now, the trick is to find out who!
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189652 is a reply to message #189563] |
Thu, 08 November 2012 17:40 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I posted this as a reply to JohnH's email under the Disk Brakes Install thread and then realized it would be better under this
subject so I've copy and pasted it.
Regards,
Rob M.
John,
I agree with what you've noted below and would like to expand on it a bit.
Dave noted that there were two types of boosters out there OEM and Metric.
I will discuss the OEM first.
Dave noted that the OD of the rear of the master cylinder is smaller than the bore in the booster. The bolt holes in the master
cylinder are too large to center it properly. The second seal fits over the rear of the master cylinder and positions the master
cylinder in the center of the booster bore as it is being tightened down. It keeps the rod in the center of the master cylinder
piston. If the master cylinder and rod are not aligned and in the center when you apply the brakes the rod will be at an angle and
it can create a vacuum leak which would affect the amount of boost that is applied.
He noted that he could not find the part number for the second seal. However, I just went to the Parts Book 78Z and on page 4-8 one
finds Key 9 - SEAL, front housing. If you look at the picture it sure looks like that seal is "cup" shaped and goes over the end of
the master cylinder that goes into the booster.
For the hell of it I just did a Google search for 5460935 and this is what popped up:
http://www.gmpartswiki.com/w/5460935
I clicked on 5460935 in the first paragraph
And this popped up:
http://www.gmpartswiki.com/gmpart?gmpartno=5460935
I did a Google search for 18005270 and this popped up:
http://shop.docrebuild.com/1963-1967corvettepbfrontshellsealoriginalgm18005270.aspx
As you can see it's NOT a cup shaped seal
I went into the Forum and noted that MikeK had already performed this exercise (thanks Mike!) and found:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0307phr_baer_serious_street_system_disc_brakes/photo_17.html
as well as this:
http://shop.docrebuild.com/1964-1967corvettepbshellfrontsealoriginalgm5464287or5452549.aspx
Bottom line: I have a sensitized booster to install on The Blue Streak and I've just ordered the following from Dr. Rebuild:
1) 1964-1967 Corvette PB Shell Front Seal Original GM 5464287 or 5452549
2) 1963-1967 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 18005270
3) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 5460935
4) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Cup Insert replaces GM 5460929
Once I get them I'll take the OEM booster and OEM Master Cylinder out of The Blue Streak and see what works. I also have a
sensitized booster here and a P-30 Master Cylinder and I'll see what works with that combination.
Metric Booster
Dave noted that the bore in the metric booster was even larger than the OEM and he manufactured an adapter to center the master
cylinder in the booster. Unfortunately that's all I can remember about that. If anyone else can add more details PLEASE do so!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Gary and Rob
Dave Lensi stated in his presentation in Amana that along with the longer rod a second rubber seal should also be used when putting
the bracket between the MC and the booster. The second seal gives position stability and ensures that the rod stays centered. He
also mentioned the holes in the bracket should be modified to accommodate the dimples near the studs on the booster. Otherwise the
bracket will not be flat and increase the distance between the booster and MC. Care must also be taken to centre the MC on the
booster because the MC nose was no longer fully seated in the booster.
Best regards
John
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189722 is a reply to message #189652] |
Fri, 09 November 2012 10:03 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Rob
Check out
http://shop.docrebuild.com/1963-1967corvettepbfrontshellsealoriginalgm18005270.aspx
and
http://shop.docrebuild.com/1964-1967corvettepbshellfrontsealoriginalgm5464287or5452549.aspx
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Nov 8, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I posted this as a reply to JohnH's email under the Disk Brakes Install thread and then realized it would be better under this
> subject so I've copy and pasted it.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> John,
>
> I agree with what you've noted below and would like to expand on it a bit.
>
> Dave noted that there were two types of boosters out there OEM and Metric.
>
> I will discuss the OEM first.
>
> Dave noted that the OD of the rear of the master cylinder is smaller than the bore in the booster. The bolt holes in the master
> cylinder are too large to center it properly. The second seal fits over the rear of the master cylinder and positions the master
> cylinder in the center of the booster bore as it is being tightened down. It keeps the rod in the center of the master cylinder
> piston. If the master cylinder and rod are not aligned and in the center when you apply the brakes the rod will be at an angle and
> it can create a vacuum leak which would affect the amount of boost that is applied.
>
> He noted that he could not find the part number for the second seal. However, I just went to the Parts Book 78Z and on page 4-8 one
> finds Key 9 - SEAL, front housing. If you look at the picture it sure looks like that seal is "cup" shaped and goes over the end of
> the master cylinder that goes into the booster.
>
> For the hell of it I just did a Google search for 5460935 and this is what popped up:
>
> http://www.gmpartswiki.com/w/5460935
>
> I clicked on 5460935 in the first paragraph
>
> And this popped up:
>
> http://www.gmpartswiki.com/gmpart?gmpartno=5460935
>
> I did a Google search for 18005270 and this popped up:
>
> http://shop.docrebuild.com/1963-1967corvettepbfrontshellsealoriginalgm18005270.aspx
>
> As you can see it's NOT a cup shaped seal
>
> I went into the Forum and noted that MikeK had already performed this exercise (thanks Mike!) and found:
>
> http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0307phr_baer_serious_street_system_disc_brakes/photo_17.html
>
> as well as this:
>
> http://shop.docrebuild.com/1964-1967corvettepbshellfrontsealoriginalgm5464287or5452549.aspx
>
> Bottom line: I have a sensitized booster to install on The Blue Streak and I've just ordered the following from Dr. Rebuild:
>
> 1) 1964-1967 Corvette PB Shell Front Seal Original GM 5464287 or 5452549
> 2) 1963-1967 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 18005270
> 3) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 5460935
> 4) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Cup Insert replaces GM 5460929
>
> Once I get them I'll take the OEM booster and OEM Master Cylinder out of The Blue Streak and see what works. I also have a
> sensitized booster here and a P-30 Master Cylinder and I'll see what works with that combination.
>
> Metric Booster
>
> Dave noted that the bore in the metric booster was even larger than the OEM and he manufactured an adapter to center the master
> cylinder in the booster. Unfortunately that's all I can remember about that. If anyone else can add more details PLEASE do so!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Heslinga
>
> Gary and Rob
>
> Dave Lensi stated in his presentation in Amana that along with the longer rod a second rubber seal should also be used when putting
> the bracket between the MC and the booster. The second seal gives position stability and ensures that the rod stays centered. He
> also mentioned the holes in the bracket should be modified to accommodate the dimples near the studs on the booster. Otherwise the
> bracket will not be flat and increase the distance between the booster and MC. Care must also be taken to centre the MC on the
> booster because the MC nose was no longer fully seated in the booster.
>
> Best regards
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189740 is a reply to message #189722] |
Fri, 09 November 2012 14:55 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Emery,
Those are two of the four parts I ordered:
> Bottom line: I have a sensitized booster to install on The Blue Streak and I've just ordered the following from Dr. Rebuild:
>
> 1) 1964-1967 Corvette PB Shell Front Seal Original GM 5464287 or 5452549
> 2) 1963-1967 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 18005270
> 3) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 5460935
> 4) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Cup Insert replaces GM 5460929
However, below are the responses I've received:
Number 1)
************************************************************************************************************************
From: Docrebuild's Shopping Cart [mailto:Docrebuild@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:37 AM
To: Robert Mueller
Subject: Order #1301 - Canceled
Hello Robert Mueller,
This email has been sent to inform you that your order, #1301, has been updated to a status of Canceled.
************************************************************************************************************************
Number 2)
************************************************************************************************************************
From: docrebuild@aol.com [mailto:docrebuild@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:38 AM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Cancelled Order
I only sell to those owning a Corvette.
************************************************************************************************************************
My response to Number 2)
************************************************************************************************************************
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 1:53 PM
To: 'docrebuild@aol.com'
Subject: RE: Cancelled Order
Doc,
I am quite disappointed by this email.
The GMC was a great motorhome made by a sister division of GM between 1973-1978. GM did such a good job with this vehicle out of the
12,941 built there are still over 8,000 in existence of which more than half are in use.
We have a discovered the problem that thirty odd years after these coaches were built very few of them have the seals that go over
the rear of the master cylinder fitted. We've discovered that the mis-alignment of the piston in the master cylinder and the piston
in the booster cocks the rod enough to cause a loss of vacuum when you apply the brakes.
I was quite excited when I found your parts as it will help us solve the problem and return the braking system to full integrity.
I respect your policy, if you won't sell to us would you provide your source of supply so we can have the seals made for our
application?
Regards,
Rob Mueller
************************************************************************************************************************
So far no answer; I suggest we give it a week or so and if I don't get no response somebody that owns a Corvette order the parts.
HOWEVER, they need to be on different orders or "Doc" will figger it out!
Question for the lawyers out there, is this business practice legal?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora
Rob
Check out
http://shop.docrebuild.com/1963-1967corvettepbfrontshellsealoriginalgm18005270.aspx
and
http://shop.docrebuild.com/1964-1967corvettepbshellfrontsealoriginalgm5464287or5452549.aspx
Emery
On Nov 8, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I posted this as a reply to JohnH's email under the Disk Brakes Install thread and then realized it would be better under this
> subject so I've copy and pasted it.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> John,
>
> I agree with what you've noted below and would like to expand on it a bit.
>
> Dave noted that there were two types of boosters out there OEM and Metric.
>
> I will discuss the OEM first.
>
> Dave noted that the OD of the rear of the master cylinder is smaller than the bore in the booster. The bolt holes in the master
> cylinder are too large to center it properly. The second seal fits over the rear of the master cylinder and positions the master
> cylinder in the center of the booster bore as it is being tightened down. It keeps the rod in the center of the master cylinder
> piston. If the master cylinder and rod are not aligned and in the center when you apply the brakes the rod will be at an angle and
> it can create a vacuum leak which would affect the amount of boost that is applied.
>
> He noted that he could not find the part number for the second seal. However, I just went to the Parts Book 78Z and on page 4-8
one
> finds Key 9 - SEAL, front housing. If you look at the picture it sure looks like that seal is "cup" shaped and goes over the end
of
> the master cylinder that goes into the booster.
>
> For the hell of it I just did a Google search for 5460935 and this is what popped up:
>
> http://www.gmpartswiki.com/w/5460935
>
> I clicked on 5460935 in the first paragraph
>
> And this popped up:
>
> http://www.gmpartswiki.com/gmpart?gmpartno=5460935
>
> I did a Google search for 18005270 and this popped up:
>
> http://shop.docrebuild.com/1963-1967corvettepbfrontshellsealoriginalgm18005270.aspx
>
> As you can see it's NOT a cup shaped seal
>
> I went into the Forum and noted that MikeK had already performed this exercise (thanks Mike!) and found:
>
> http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0307phr_baer_serious_street_system_disc_brakes/photo_17.html
>
> as well as this:
>
> http://shop.docrebuild.com/1964-1967corvettepbshellfrontsealoriginalgm5464287or5452549.aspx
>
> Bottom line: I have a sensitized booster to install on The Blue Streak and I've just ordered the following from Dr. Rebuild:
>
> 1) 1964-1967 Corvette PB Shell Front Seal Original GM 5464287 or 5452549
> 2) 1963-1967 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 18005270
> 3) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 5460935
> 4) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Cup Insert replaces GM 5460929
>
> Once I get them I'll take the OEM booster and OEM Master Cylinder out of The Blue Streak and see what works. I also have a
> sensitized booster here and a P-30 Master Cylinder and I'll see what works with that combination.
>
> Metric Booster
>
> Dave noted that the bore in the metric booster was even larger than the OEM and he manufactured an adapter to center the master
> cylinder in the booster. Unfortunately that's all I can remember about that. If anyone else can add more details PLEASE do so!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Heslinga
>
> Gary and Rob
>
> Dave Lensi stated in his presentation in Amana that along with the longer rod a second rubber seal should also be used when
putting
> the bracket between the MC and the booster. The second seal gives position stability and ensures that the rod stays centered.
He
> also mentioned the holes in the bracket should be modified to accommodate the dimples near the studs on the booster. Otherwise
the
> bracket will not be flat and increase the distance between the booster and MC. Care must also be taken to centre the MC on the
> booster because the MC nose was no longer fully seated in the booster.
>
> Best regards
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189742 is a reply to message #189740] |
Fri, 09 November 2012 15:24 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 09 November 2012 15:55 |
Emery,
Those are two of the four parts I ordered:
> Bottom line: I have a sensitized booster to install on The Blue Streak and I've just ordered the following from Dr. Rebuild:
>
> 1) 1964-1967 Corvette PB Shell Front Seal Original GM 5464287 or 5452549
> 2) 1963-1967 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 18005270
> 3) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Seal Original GM 5460935
> 4) 1963 Corvette PB Front Shell Cup Insert replaces GM 5460929
However, below are the responses I've received:
Number 1)
************************************************************************************************************************
From: Docrebuild's Shopping Cart [mailto:Docrebuild@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:37 AM
To: Robert Mueller
Subject: Order #1301 - Canceled
Hello Robert Mueller,
This email has been sent to inform you that your order, #1301, has been updated to a status of Canceled.
************************************************************************************************************************
Number 2)
************************************************************************************************************************
From: docrebuild@aol.com [mailto:docrebuild@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:38 AM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Cancelled Order
I only sell to those owning a Corvette.
|
Doc Rebuild is known for his "my way or hit the highway" attitude. None of my Vettes are 63-67 so I probably can't help you with the order. I googled the one part # and found on a Buick board July post, someone neded seals and got them from this place, but they said they were short on them and would only sell him one and charged him $10.
http://www.pwrsteering.com/
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Brake booster front seal [message #189746 is a reply to message #189742] |
Fri, 09 November 2012 16:05 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mike,
I read some of his comments on his website that referred to statements made on one of the Corvette forums and went to see what he
had to say. You're right he is (as we day Downunder) "up himself!"
Thanks for the other link; I'll give it a go.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike
Doc Rebuild is known for his "my way or hit the highway" attitude. None of my Vettes are 63-67 so I probably can't help you with
the order. I googled the one part # and found on a Buick board July post, someone neded seals and got them from this place, but
they said they were short on them and would only sell him one and charged him $10.
http://www.pwrsteering.com/
--
Mike
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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