Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 1st Design vs 2nd Design
| 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #186883] |
Wed, 10 October 2012 15:50  |
Phantom2
Messages: 94
Registered: September 2012
Location: Springfield, IL
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How do I determine where the dividing line is between the 1st design & second??? some parts listed for sale specify for !st Design.
Larry
Larry Hopkins
75 Avion
Springfield, IL
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| Re: 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #186888 is a reply to message #186885] |
Wed, 10 October 2012 16:17  |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 17:01 |
............. I say buy parts for whatever year you might have, keeping in mind what I mentioned.............
Dan
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That may be dangerous as a lot of changes were made mid years. (i.e '75 a/c condensers, '75 radial tires, '73 door lock, 77 engine, etc)
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #186899 is a reply to message #186890] |
Wed, 10 October 2012 18:36 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 17:34 |
| GMC Cruse wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 16:17 |
| WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 17:01 |
............. I say buy parts for whatever year you might have, keeping in mind what I mentioned.............
Dan
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That may be dangerous as a lot of changes were made mid years. (i.e '75 a/c condensers, '75 radial tires, '73 door lock, 77 engine, etc)
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I dont think so. You only quoted a portion of what I said.
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Dan:
I was trying to say that there were more mid-year changes than to just the windows, flooring, air conditioning and engine that you mentioned. Your post sounded, to me, like those were the only things he had to be concerned with.
By “dangerous, I meant if he needed certain parts and just got one for the same year, it may not fit his GMC. If he needed a bogie swing arm and parts for a ’74, they changed at 4v101024. The lock cylinder changed at 3v100168. The second design for the transmission assembly is listed as starting at 6v100878 and uses different governors among other things. Looks like the change to HEI was made at 5v100472. The side “bump strip” changed in early ’76. There were numerous other mid-year changes many of which were small ones such as changes to the fuel tubes and hoses at 5v100529.
Larry:
My info came from the "GMC Motorhome and Transmode Parts Book" printed in May 1979. If you have a particular part in mind, I can see what the book lists for it.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #186911 is a reply to message #186903] |
Wed, 10 October 2012 19:32 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
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| Jim Galbavy wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 20:07 |
Mike,
It is good to think it thru. ... but I am afraid that you may be getting lost in some of the details. We do need to know what year and TZE he has. A door cylinder lock? That is a locksmith issue. Once the year and model is known any of the GMC venders can guide him. Most of what you are stating is 30-40 year old data. I have a '73. My motor is rebuild and upgraded to a '76-77 455ci standard. I have L. Harrison's 4 bag system and 16in Alcoas with modern radials. There is not much that is stock '73 except the windows and title.
Just my 2 cents.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, Fl
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Please read the posts again. I never said the year and TZE wasn't needed. Larry appears to be looking at original parts that are listed as 1st or 2nd design and wants to know how to tell if they will fit his GMC. Dan listed some of the mid-year changes and then said just buy parts for the year Larry has. If Larry sees an ad listing a 73-74 first design bogie swing arm and buys it since they're list as '74, he'll need to buy more (pin, bushings,etc.) than the arm if his GMC is higher than 4v101024 and it won't be the same as the one on the other side.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #186947 is a reply to message #186943] |
Thu, 11 October 2012 08:56 |
Jim Bounds
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Registered: January 2004
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Yea, it's not something that came "original". There is though a pretty important difference in a "1st" and "2nd" design or style of GMC in many ways. The body construction certainly had and early and late. The floor construction too. The Gemini built early interiors were big time different than the in house GM interior cabinet construction. Even the name designations had early named after Natl parks with the late coaches not. Then there is the drive trains, early would be up to 1/2 year 77 sporting a 455, the 403 could be called late. So "1st" and "2nd" means many different things to different people. Oh, and then there are the Transmodes-- all the transmodes did not have a spring under the boost switch which meant ALL the batteries would drain if someone left the switch in boost-- what design would you call that!
When someone is talking to me about their coach, I have a selection of questions I must ask them before I can talk about their coach problem. Go figure-- they all look the same but they are all hand built production vehicles and the most important word in this phrase "Everything almost fits perfect" is almost...
Jim Bounds
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________________________________
From: David Greenberg <gmcmotorhomeregistry@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design
I never heard those terms for the GMC other than in pre production. GM made
running changes. Engine. Changover was by TZE on/about 1 March 1977
On Oct 10, 2012 4:50 PM, "Larry" <larry_hopkins660@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> How do I determine where the dividing line is between the 1st design &
> second??? some parts listed for sale specify for !st Design.
>
> Larry
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #187031 is a reply to message #186947] |
Fri, 12 October 2012 11:58 |
Phantom2
Messages: 94
Registered: September 2012
Location: Springfield, IL
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My coach is TZE365J100906. 1975 Avion 144K mi, formerly from Minn, spent winters in AZ for a while, (has Ski Locker) originally sold in Chicago area.
I was looking at Gateway Motorhome Company's site.
here are a few of their listings. It seems they are all for glass related parts.
WINDOW CHANNEL FELT for entire 1st Design Coach………$115.00
SIDE MOLDING for 2nd Design - Stick On - for Both Sides …$179.00
NEW SIDE GLASS for 2nd Design Rear Bedroom…was $185.00 Now $150.00
RUBBER WINDOW SEAL - for 2nd Design Stationary & Slider Glass
I was just wanting to know if there was an easy way to find out how to tell 1st from 2nd, apparently not. I guess I'll just call Them & ask.
Thanks for the input
Larry
Larry Hopkins
75 Avion
Springfield, IL
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #187050 is a reply to message #187031] |
Fri, 12 October 2012 20:15 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Phantom2 wrote on Fri, 12 October 2012 09:58 |
My coach is TZE365J100906. 1975 Avion ...
... looking at Gateway Motorhome Company's site.
here are a few of their listings. It seems they are all for glass related parts.
WINDOW CHANNEL FELT for entire 1st Design Coach………$115.00
SIDE MOLDING for 2nd Design - Stick On - for Both Sides …$179.00
NEW SIDE GLASS for 2nd Design Rear Bedroom…was $185.00 Now $150.00
RUBBER WINDOW SEAL - for 2nd Design Stationary & Slider Glass
I was just wanting to know if there was an easy way to find out how to tell 1st from 2nd, apparently not. I guess I'll just call ...
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Now we are talking specific parts!
As the windows changed in the middle of the 1975 model year, and your VIN is a fairly early 1975, I would guess that you have the early design windows. But here is a way to tell:
-- The early design has a multi-piece frame and the leading section is the part that opens. The latches are the same as the cockpit "toll" windows. You have to move the screen to reach the latches. These windows ride in a "felt" that normally needs replaced.
-- The later design has a single piece frame and the you can open the rear section without moving the screen. (Much better design.)
From what I have been told, the side molding changed in mid 1976MY. So your coach should have the early design with a large stainless part with a rubber strip attached.
NOTE: When talking different parts that changed designs during the full product run of GMCs, they changed at different times and sometimes it matters if you are talking transmode (like yours) or GM upfitted coaches. Some parts changed more than once through the years. (Like seat pedestals.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #187102 is a reply to message #187031] |
Sat, 13 October 2012 08:59 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Larry,
As you can see I have three 1975 Avions (only year they were built). However, when I removed the dinette in all three of mine I
found the following written in pencil on the vertical surface just behind the passenger seat: Double Trouble (426) Oct ??, 1974; The
Blue Streak (Nov ??, 1974. I can't remember what the dates were in them or what was written on the Parts Coach.
However, it is safe to assume that your coach was built in calendar year 1975 as the TZE number is much higher. David Greenberg or
John Shotwell can probably provide a rough date when it left the GM.
Your coach left GMC in Pontiac, MI as a Transmode. There are differences between a coach built as a Transmode and Motorhome.
If you look at Parts Book 78Z printed May 1979 page 2 you will find:
Model Vehicle
ZEO6083 23' Transmode
ZEO6583 26' Transmode
If you look at Maintenance Manual X-7525 printed in 1975 page 0-1 you will find the breakdown of the TZE number.
As you can see "36" following TZE stands for a 26' Transmode.
Bottom line If you tell me what parts you're interested in purchasing I'll let you know what fits.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry
My coach is TZE365J100906. 1975 Avion 144K mi, formerly from Minn, spent winters in AZ for a while, (has Ski Locker) originally sold
in Chicago area.
I was looking at Gateway Motorhome Company's site.
here are a few of their listings. It seems they are all for glass related parts.
WINDOW CHANNEL FELT for entire 1st Design Coach………$115.00
SIDE MOLDING for 2nd Design - Stick On - for Both Sides …$179.00
NEW SIDE GLASS for 2nd Design Rear Bedroom…was $185.00 Now $150.00
RUBBER WINDOW SEAL - for 2nd Design Stationary & Slider Glass
I was just wanting to know if there was an easy way to find out how to tell 1st from 2nd, apparently not. I guess I'll just call
Them & ask.
Thanks for the input
Larry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #187154 is a reply to message #187102] |
Sat, 13 October 2012 18:42 |
Phantom2
Messages: 94
Registered: September 2012
Location: Springfield, IL
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Ok, got it figured out. For windows, 1st design the latch is on the glass at the front of the window, for the 2nd the latch is in the center on the mullion.
I have 1st design & would like for my wife to be able to open and close the windows. I have trouble opening them,I HAVE TO close them from the outside.
So your help is appreciated what do I need & who do I get it from??
Also, where can I get some clips for the screen? the ones on the door screen are broken,and I am missing the grommets & brackets for the tailpipe where it goes through the frame.
Again Thanks to all for the help.
Larry
My TOAD, when I get a dolly will probably be my 1987 Cadillac Allante.(has a big trunk)
Larry Hopkins
75 Avion
Springfield, IL
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #187157 is a reply to message #187154] |
Sat, 13 October 2012 19:20 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir: of course Jim K has everstuff,
http://appliedgmc.com/level.itml/icOid/488
window rebuild kits also. You might want to look around as there are a few new windows available, even frameless. For what you got maybe clean the tracks with a tooth brush and try some dry lubricant. Can`t help with the door window screen, I don`t have one yet.
| Phantom2 wrote on Sat, 13 October 2012 19:42 |
Ok, got it figured out. For windows, 1st design the latch is on the glass at the front of the window, for the 2nd the latch is in the center on the mullion.
I have 1st design & would like for my wife to be able to open and close the windows. I have trouble opening them,I HAVE TO close them from the outside.
So your help is appreciated what do I need & who do I get it from??
Also, where can I get some clips for the screen? the ones on the door screen are broken,and I am missing the grommets & brackets for the tailpipe where it goes through the frame.
Again Thanks to all for the help.
Larry
My TOAD, when I get a dolly will probably be my 1987 Cadillac Allante.(has a big trunk)
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1st Design vs 2nd Design [message #187161 is a reply to message #187154] |
Sat, 13 October 2012 20:05 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Correct on the window types!
The first thing I would do is close the windows and look in the rubber "tracks" as they could just be dirty. Lift them out of the
aluminum tracks and see if that's clean. If not blow it out with your air compressor. Stay away from them with a high pressure water
washer as you could blow them to smithereens! Once they're clean get some silicone spray and spray them with a couple of good coats.
If the seals are shot then you'll need to replace them - OBVIOUSLY!
You'll need two eight foot sections for each of the large windows and one eight foot section for the each of the small windows.
AFAIK the only people that have the clips for the screens is Cinnabar, if you find them elsewhere let us know.
On a final note, when I was down at the COOP I R&R'd the seal on one rear window hoping it would make it easier to slide. It didn't
and JimB told me that the body might need to be re-curved.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry
Ok, got it figured out. For windows, 1st design the latch is on the glass at the front of the window, for the 2nd the latch is in
the center on the mullion.
I have 1st design & would like for my wife to be able to open and close the windows. I have trouble opening them,I HAVE TO close
them from the outside.
So your help is appreciated what do I need & who do I get it from??
Also, where can I get some clips for the screen? the ones on the door screen are broken,and I am missing the grommets & brackets for
the tailpipe where it goes through the frame.
Again Thanks to all for the help.
Larry
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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