Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Ignition Questions (Amana tech session)
| Ignition Questions [message #186110] |
Mon, 01 October 2012 16:32  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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I was going through the notes from the tech session, but didn't write down what Dick recommended for a spark plug type and gap? I seem to remember NGK plugs, but don't remember the heat range or gap. I thought this would be in the handouts, but I can't find it. Does anyone have the spec?
Also, what grease did he recommend for lubrication the distributor advance weights?
Thanks for any info you might have written down that I didn't!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186160 is a reply to message #186157] |
Mon, 01 October 2012 22:47  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Does anyone remember, was there a GMC service bulletin about reducing the
plug gap from 0.080" or is it from somewhere else? I've got a friend who's
still unconvinced -- he's still at 0.060".
Ken H.
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Dan Gregg wrote:
>
>
> Dang, forgot to mention the gap. Guess I am slipping.
> dan
> --
>
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76 X-Birchaven
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| Re: Ignition Questions [message #186161 is a reply to message #186110] |
Mon, 01 October 2012 22:52 |
JohnL455
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Location: Woodstock, IL
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It was one range colder than OEM due to E10 and E15. He never did say what grease for dist mechanicsls. On another note, I metered some dielectric grease at his table and it had no measurable resistance even over a short distance. However the coated probes still read 0 Ohms when touching each other. Perplexing stuff.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Ignition Questions [message #186163 is a reply to message #186110] |
Mon, 01 October 2012 23:06 |
GeorgeRud
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Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Dick also recommended any synthetic grease for the distributor weights. For a spark gap, .038 was recommended.
He has just gotten some of his recommended NGK plugs in stock if anyone is interested.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186165 is a reply to message #186160] |
Mon, 01 October 2012 23:54 |
powerjon
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Registered: January 2004
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Ken,
There was a service bulletin but I think it was GM wide on the HEI
system and not necessarily on the GMC. Can check the GMC service
bulletins tomorrow.
I have the spark plug guide that I have put together and will be
updating and expanding in the next few weeks.
Read the plug gap settings section.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5237/Spark_Plug_Application_Gu.pdf
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Oct 1, 2012, at 11:47 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Does anyone remember, was there a GMC service bulletin about
> reducing the
> plug gap from 0.080" or is it from somewhere else? I've got a
> friend who's
> still unconvinced -- he's still at 0.060".
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Dan Gregg wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dang, forgot to mention the gap. Guess I am slipping.
>> dan
>> --
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Ignition Questions [message #186167 is a reply to message #186163] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 01:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Mon, 01 October 2012 23:06 |
Dick also recommended any synthetic grease for the distributor weights. For a spark gap, .038 was recommended.
He has just gotten some of his recommended NGK plugs in stock if anyone is interested.
|
Dick is the expert, and he will not steer you wrong.
I personally can not imagine what difference synthetic vs. non-synthetic grease would make. I suggested to Dick that another thing might be used is anti-seize. I did not get a positive or negative reaction from him as the conversation drifted elsewhere.
My reason for using anti-seize is it tends to stick and coat anything it touches(namely the pins). Try getting it off of your hands. It also is a great rust inhibitor. We use it on airplane brake caliper pins that need to slide and not rust up. One coating lasts many years.
The important thing is to keep them lubricated, not to over lubricate them and sling the extra grease around on the inside of the rotor or cap.
JMHO
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186198 is a reply to message #186175] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 10:22 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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The main reason for using pure silicone grease in hei is that if it slings
off onto the cap, it has less of a tendency to carbon track and flashover.
It will still attract metallic and carbon brush dust, and that will
conduct. Keep the caps clean and dry to minimize this.
Jim Hupy
Back home in Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Oct 2, 2012 5:20 AM, "Ken Henderson" <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Thanks, John.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:54 AM, John Wright wrote:
>
> > Ken,
> > There was a service bulletin but I think it was GM wide on the HEI
> > system and not necessarily on the GMC. Can check the GMC service
> > bulletins tomorrow.
> > I have the spark plug guide that I have put together and will be
> > updating and expanding in the next few weeks.
> > Read the plug gap settings section.
> >
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5237/Spark_Plug_Application_Gu.pdf
> >
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| Re: Ignition Questions [message #186239 is a reply to message #186110] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 17:53 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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John, George and Ken, (yes, in that order)
John,
Dielectric grease is a silicon grease that does have extreme dielectric properties. These greases also have as near to zero film strength as can be measured. That is why they are so good on electric connections. This was very frustrating to the people that needed grease that was consistent over a wide temperature range and at the low pressures of high altitudes. It is very consistent, it just isn't a lubricant of any manner.
George,
Of course Dick would recommend a synthetic grease, they work over a wider temperature range and have less "age-out" because most are just a single compound and not a mixture of lubricants. Even if they do "bleed", what is left is a good lubricant.
Ken,
The choice of and anti-sieze is good in many places. All the characteristics you are identify are good. They come from the fact the most anti-sieze compounds are a mixture of low-shear "metal soaps" that also will not age out and have great temperature capability. The only problem is that they all tend to be very stiff. Stiff as in NGLI 5 or 6 (a long ways for 2 - which is your normal greases).
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186243 is a reply to message #186239] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 18:12 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Speaking of anti-sieze compound: Today I cleaned up the maintenance tasks
from the trip to Amana. Among those was replacement of the left exhaust
manifold gasket. I'd replace the right side's Remflex about 200 miles
after it was installed during the latest Cad500 fiasco.
Since I'd used Permatex Nickle Anti-Sieze on all of the new bolts, after
having chased all of the internal threads, I expected the bolts to come
right out. No way! After <5000 miles and <4 months, they were all
somewhat difficult to remove; a couple I worried about breaking. They did
come out, and there was no sign of rusting. When I re-chased the threads,
the chasing tap ran through easily on all but one hole, which I had to
clean up with a threading tap -- with great difficulty. Maybe I'd have
been better off with Copper Anti-Sieze???
Re: Remflex. Yes, I've had to replace the complete set already. But there
are alleviating circumstances: I'd slightly bent the gasket which failed
on the right side so I wasn't surprised when it failed -- at that location.
The latest failure was less expected, but it was probably due to the fact
that after the engine was assembled, with those gaskets in place, I
pressure washed that area. The high pressure water stream cut away all of
the protruding Remflex carbon material. I may have even undercut the area
(top, thin, horizontal edge at left rear) where the failure occurred.
There was a 3/4" wide void there when I disassembled it.
Since the Felpro gasket that came with the rebuild gasket set has worked
well for 4500 miles on the R. bank, I installed the other on the L. today.
If those fail, I carry a spare set of Remflexes.
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> ...
> The choice of and anti-sieze is good in many places. All the
> characteristics you are identify are good. They come from the fact the
> most anti-sieze compounds are a mixture of low-shear "metal soaps" that
> also will not age out and have great temperature capability. The only
> problem is that they all tend to be very stiff. Stiff as in NGLI 5 or 6 (a
> long ways for 2 - which is your normal greases).
> ...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186246 is a reply to message #186243] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 18:50 |
|
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 02 October 2012 19:12 |
Speaking of anti-sieze compound: Today I cleaned up the maintenance tasks from the trip to Amana. Among those was replacement of the left exhaust manifold gasket. I'd replace the right side's Remflex about 200 miles after it was installed during the latest Cad500 fiasco.
Since I'd used Permatex Nickle Anti-Sieze on all of the new bolts, after having chased all of the internal threads, I expected the bolts to come right out. No way! After <5000 miles and <4 months, they were all somewhat difficult to remove; a couple I worried about breaking. They did come out, and there was no sign of rusting. When I re-chased the threads, the chasing tap ran through easily on all but one hole, which I had to clean up with a threading tap -- with great difficulty. Maybe I'd have been better off with Copper Anti-Sieze???
<snip>
Ken H.
|
Ken,
The Permatex nickle anti-sieze is known to cook in pretty well. It has been adopted because it contains no lead or zinc and is safe around oxygen sensors and catalytic converters. I don't know for a fact that Loctite C5a is the same thing as the old Fel-Pro C5a.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186248 is a reply to message #186243] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 18:52 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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One assumes this means the current engine has had no problems with end play and other frustrations? Great! Incidentally, we took a look at Teds busted motor while we were sealing compressors. Lunched the mill he did, no foolin'.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions
Speaking of anti-sieze compound: Today I cleaned up the maintenance tasks
from the trip to Amana. Among those was replacement of the left exhaust
manifold gasket. I'd replace the right side's Remflex about 200 miles
after it was installed during the latest Cad500 fiasco.
Since I'd used Permatex Nickle Anti-Sieze on all of the new bolts, after
having chased all of the internal threads, I expected the bolts to come
right out. No way! After <5000 miles and <4 months, they were all
somewhat difficult to remove; a couple I worried about breaking. They did
come out, and there was no sign of rusting. When I re-chased the threads,
the chasing tap ran through easily on all but one hole, which I had to
clean up with a threading tap -- with great difficulty. Maybe I'd have
been better off with Copper Anti-Sieze???
Re: Remflex. Yes, I've had to replace the complete set already. But there
are alleviating circumstances: I'd slightly bent the gasket which failed
on the right side so I wasn't surprised when it failed -- at that location.
The latest failure was less expected, but it was probably due to the fact
that after the engine was assembled, with those gaskets in place, I
pressure washed that area. The high pressure water stream cut away all of
the protruding Remflex carbon material. I may have even undercut the area
(top, thin, horizontal edge at left rear) where the failure occurred.
There was a 3/4" wide void there when I disassembled it.
Since the Felpro gasket that came with the rebuild gasket set has worked
well for 4500 miles on the R. bank, I installed the other on the L. today.
If those fail, I carry a spare set of Remflexes.
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> ...
> The choice of and anti-sieze is good in many places. All the
> characteristics you are identify are good. They come from the fact the
> most anti-sieze compounds are a mixture of low-shear "metal soaps" that
> also will not age out and have great temperature capability. The only
> problem is that they all tend to be very stiff. Stiff as in NGLI 5 or 6 (a
> long ways for 2 - which is your normal greases).
> ...
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186249 is a reply to message #186243] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 19:17 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Since I have 2 cans of Copper C5A around that is all I use. I wonder if there is a similar problem with it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186250 is a reply to message #186248] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 19:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Yep, with 4727 miles on the "new" engine, everything seems OK. Doesn't
even use much oil -- 1 q. in the last 2700 miles. And that after I
switched to synthetic "too soon" (after a couple of thousand miles). I'm
happy. Even if the Cad doesn't sound as good as that 455 Ted built.
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> One assumes this means the current engine has had no problems with end
> play and other frustrations? Great! Incidentally, we took a look at Teds
> busted motor while we were sealing compressors. Lunched the mill he did,
> no foolin'.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions [message #186279 is a reply to message #186243] |
Wed, 03 October 2012 09:10 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I think Jerry Potter pointed me towards these:
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/scegaskets/Items/4012?&caSKU=4012&caTitle=Part%23%204012%20SCE%20Pro%20Copper%20Header%20Gaskets%20
for%20Cadillac%20472-500
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 5:13 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ignition Questions
Speaking of anti-sieze compound: Today I cleaned up the maintenance tasks
from the trip to Amana. Among those was replacement of the left exhaust
manifold gasket. I'd replace the right side's Remflex about 200 miles
after it was installed during the latest Cad500 fiasco.
Since I'd used Permatex Nickle Anti-Sieze on all of the new bolts, after
having chased all of the internal threads, I expected the bolts to come
right out. No way! After <5000 miles and <4 months, they were all
somewhat difficult to remove; a couple I worried about breaking. They did
come out, and there was no sign of rusting. When I re-chased the threads,
the chasing tap ran through easily on all but one hole, which I had to
clean up with a threading tap -- with great difficulty. Maybe I'd have
been better off with Copper Anti-Sieze???
Re: Remflex. Yes, I've had to replace the complete set already. But there
are alleviating circumstances: I'd slightly bent the gasket which failed
on the right side so I wasn't surprised when it failed -- at that location.
The latest failure was less expected, but it was probably due to the fact
that after the engine was assembled, with those gaskets in place, I
pressure washed that area. The high pressure water stream cut away all of
the protruding Remflex carbon material. I may have even undercut the area
(top, thin, horizontal edge at left rear) where the failure occurred.
There was a 3/4" wide void there when I disassembled it.
Since the Felpro gasket that came with the rebuild gasket set has worked
well for 4500 miles on the R. bank, I installed the other on the L. today.
If those fail, I carry a spare set of Remflexes.
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
> ...
> The choice of and anti-sieze is good in many places. All the
> characteristics you are identify are good. They come from the fact the
> most anti-sieze compounds are a mixture of low-shear "metal soaps" that
> also will not age out and have great temperature capability. The only
> problem is that they all tend to be very stiff. Stiff as in NGLI 5 or 6 (a
> long ways for 2 - which is your normal greases).
> ...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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