| melted Negative post on starting battery [message #185738] |
Wed, 26 September 2012 17:44  |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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Went to start her up today to go deliver Girl Guide cookies. she cranked over but did not start.
After the 3rd try I pushed the boost button she cranked faster but still no start. (I was waiting a few seconds between each 30 second try) second attempt with boost button there was a popping noise when I turned the key and nothing no lights no fan noise nothing.
got out and checked the battery and the negative terminal was melted off and the negative cable was melting the side of the battery! had to put a glove on so I could touch the cable it was that hot.
SO my guess is that the starter was drawing a bit of current and may be on its way out.
I checked and the "hot start" mod has not been done will do that as soon as I pick up a new battery this weekend and make sure all connections are clean.
Would I be farther ahead just to take the starter off and go get it rebuilt now rather then latter? or is possible to be just dirty connections that has caused the terminal to melt?
BTW the battery is a marine deep cycle type and it has had the Negative terminal melted before. (the wing nut part was gone when I got the rig)
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #185743 is a reply to message #185738] |
Wed, 26 September 2012 18:58  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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With clean connections starter current shouldn't get the thing hot enough to melt. New cables, everything clean and tight, it will get qwarm but not gorssly hot under repeated starting. That being said, a failing bushing in the strter will drag it down and cause heavy current draw... and can also make the starter jam in the 'on' mode, requiring a FAST run around to the battery and removal of the neg cable to make it stop. (Ask me how I know this) If you have a helper to help lift and hold while you start the bolts, starter replacement is simple and easy, but will get your hands greasy. Took me and the P.O. about twenty minutes to replace the one on my '76 PB. Made all the difference in the world. The starters aren't expensive, I think I gave O'Rielly's $40 swap during a grand opening sale. If you've a lathe, you can do the rebuild yourself, the bushing is available as a service part. Also the overrunning clutch though it probably
doesn't need replaciong, and the brushes. For the solenoid contact, simply turn the copper contact over and let the former back side pit up for the next 40 years. Dress up the fixed contacts, turn the commutator in your lathe, and undercut the insulators between the commutator bars with a small file. Rebuilt.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: "1275gtsport@gmail.com" <1275gtsport@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:44 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery
Went to start her up today to go deliver Girl Guide cookies. she cranked over but did not start.
After the 3rd try I pushed the boost button she cranked faster but still no start. (I was waiting a few seconds between each 30 second try) second attempt with boost button there was a popping noise when I turned the key and nothing no lights no fan noise nothing.
got out and checked the battery and the negative terminal was melted off and the negative cable was melting the side of the battery! had to put a glove on so I could touch the cable it was that hot.
SO my guess is that the starter was drawing a bit of current and may be on its way out.
I checked and the "hot start" mod has not been done will do that as soon as I pick up a new battery this weekend and make sure all connections are clean.
Would I be farther ahead just to take the starter off and go get it rebuilt now rather then latter? or is possible to be just dirty connections that has caused the terminal to melt?
BTW the battery is a marine deep cycle type and it has had the Negative terminal melted before. (the wing nut part was gone when I got the rig)
--
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: melted Negative post on starting battery [message #185746 is a reply to message #185738] |
Wed, 26 September 2012 19:50 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| 1275gtsport wrote on Wed, 26 September 2012 18:44 |
Went to start her up today to go deliver Girl Guide cookies. she cranked over but did not start.
After the 3rd try I pushed the boost button she cranked faster but still no start. (I was waiting a few seconds between each 30 second try) second attempt with boost button there was a popping noise when I turned the key and nothing no lights no fan noise nothing.
got out and checked the battery and the negative terminal was melted off and the negative cable was melting the side of the battery! had to put a glove on so I could touch the cable it was that hot.
SO my guess is that the starter was drawing a bit of current and may be on its way out.
I checked and the "hot start" mod has not been done will do that as soon as I pick up a new battery this weekend and make sure all connections are clean.
Would I be farther ahead just to take the starter off and go get it rebuilt now rather then latter? or is possible to be just dirty connections that has caused the terminal to melt?
BTW the battery is a marine deep cycle type and it has had the Negative terminal melted before. (the wing nut part was gone when I got the rig)
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #185757 is a reply to message #185749] |
Wed, 26 September 2012 22:04 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> http://goo.gl/JHN02
this is one of my favorite fixes, but i still cannot keep the whole process in one view in my mind.
keeping the shortest runs and cleanest connections with the least entropy possible is the goal and this does it. for starting.
I think i see it but not when i just wake, my brain has to have a cup of coffee before i can see this in my minds eye.
This is a great information bank for starting design. But when i do this i will have to read it over and over about 10 times.
lucky i have it working now without it, but i am going for this first thing i get time to do something.
There is that other bank of information that i keep losing where you can test everything from the front with a lead light here
above the batteries but i have lost that one now, it is my favorite. But this is base factual needed design chore for us all.
Thanks for this one. system simplifying. Great info. loss of 3 volts per bad connection. 4 bad connections and that is 12 volts.
they need to make clear wire covers so you can see the electricity moving. Where is the best place to get knife off on switches for batteries.
So you can disconnect batteries with a knife blade switch, or what is the best switch to disconnect batteries all together?
If i disconnect the positive cable from the batteries when i park the gmc over a week it is still holding firm charge. Other wise they go down fast.
i went two weeks without starting it and connected the positive and drove it to my new storage yesterday. No problem. But i am tired of connecting the
cables back and forth. That is why i need a good easy switch.
mickey
77 palm beach
anaheim ca.
On Sep 26, 2012, at 7:09 PM, gene Fisher wrote:
>>
>> got out and checked the battery and the negative terminal was melted off
>> and the negative cable was melting the side of the battery! had to put a
>> glove on so I could touch the cable it was that hot.
>>
>> if I was you I would
> DO THE TEST
>
> - replace the battery (going to any way)
> - replace the cables (directly to the starter)
> like this
> http://goo.gl/JHN02
> - try it again, and feel the cable
>
> why not test it first, ?
> will not cost you anything cause you are doing this anyway
>
> good luck
> gene
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #185788 is a reply to message #185775] |
Thu, 27 September 2012 09:30 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I would caution anyone from using a front or side post battery in the
forward position in a standard GMC battery box on The pass side of the
coach. I repaired a GMC for Paul Hoge that nearly burned completely except
for his intervention of grabbing red hot wires with his hands and yanking
them out. The cause? Front post battery installed by Les Schwab tire
center in Wilsonville Oregon. The battery was not properly secured, moved
over and the positive post made contact with the turn signal lamp socket.
Dead short to ground. As front of the coach is plastic, all grounds for the
front end lighting is carried back through the harness to the front
firewall plate. No fuse or link in the ground side. Immediate fire until
something burns in two. Took me a couple of days to sort out the wiring
mess. Got horns and relay, headlamp switch, dimmer switch, bulbs etc. Be
careful out among em, pilgrim.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sep 27, 2012 5:20 AM, "John R. Lebetski" <gransport@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Use a standard group 78 side terminal battery for engine with factory
> cables.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Chicago, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> Source America First
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #185796 is a reply to message #185788] |
Thu, 27 September 2012 11:20 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chad, (pdxrover15)
Please take note of this:
| James Hupy wrote on Thu, 27 September 2012 07:30 |
I would caution anyone from using a front or side post battery in the
forward position in a standard GMC battery box on The pass side of the
coach. ...
... The cause? ...
... The battery was not properly secured, moved
over and the positive post made contact with the turn signal lamp socket.
Dead short to ground. As front of the coach is plastic, all grounds for the
front end lighting is carried back through the harness to the front
firewall plate. No fuse or link in the ground side. Immediate fire until
something burns in two. ...
|
I think I still have the old hold-downs that I removed when I changed to the 3 battery tray. If you want, I could put them with the steering wheel that is waiting for the next visit to your coach. But new hold downs are not very expensive.... and they are "prettier."
(During my last visit, I noticed that Chad's staring battery was NOT fastened down. Interesting what you find on a "new to you" coach.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #186151 is a reply to message #186138] |
Mon, 01 October 2012 21:35 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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there is a bolt near the front on the passenger side.
I will have to go look tomorrow, might take a pix of it. but was there on
my 23 and 26, and every gmc we did this to
good luck
gene
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Sean F <wsfulmer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:38 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> > great news
> > on the road to recovery :>)
>
> Gene, regarding step 2 at
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-cranking-improve-for-free/p34372-ground-the-starter-cable.html
> ,
> where on the engine block is the ground being connected?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Sean
> 1973 260 Painted Desert
> Luna County, NM
> Gallery: http://goo.gl/Gfcpd
> GMCMH Search Engine: http://goo.gl/xd8PK
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #186168 is a reply to message #185796] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 01:09 |
jimtze
Messages: 92
Registered: June 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 1
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When I brought my coach, from Florida, and imported it into Canada I had to have a provincial inspection before I could licence it. One of the things it initially failed on was an insecure battery box. The PO had upgraded to the Ragusa but left out the bolts. If I had not had to have it inspected I would never have thought of it.
Jim Bratvold
Victoria, BC
76 Eleganza ll
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| Re: melted Negative post on starting battery [message #186174 is a reply to message #185738] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 06:50 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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speaking of ground bolts, I used the bolt for the Ragusa battery tray as my optional frame ground. I attached under the tray and on the steel side of the bolt (not the tray itself) will this be an OK spot for the frame ground? the engine ground goes into the corner of the engine as described.
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #186252 is a reply to message #186174] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 20:01 |
Dwayne
Messages: 418
Registered: October 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Adam
I also ran a ground to the Alum fire wall. I had battery drain problems
and removed the wires to the Isolator (the isolator was the problem.)
I can take a photo tomorrow morning and email later.
We are now in New Orleans. Arrived this afternoon and will spend 2 nights
here. After that Glenn and Darlene head for Florida and we to Texas.
Regards
Dwayne Jacobson
White Rock, BC
77 Kingsley
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 AM, 1275gtsport@gmail.com <1275gtsport@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
> speaking of ground bolts, I used the bolt for the Ragusa battery tray as
> my optional frame ground. I attached under the tray and on the steel side
> of the bolt (not the tray itself) will this be an OK spot for the frame
> ground? the engine ground goes into the corner of the engine as described.
> --
> Adam Raeburn
> Rothesay, NB
> 1976 Austin Mini
> 1977 GMC Palm Beach
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will
> all be fixed.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Dwayne & Sharon Jacobson
White Rock, BC
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] melted Negative post on starting battery [message #186254 is a reply to message #186252] |
Tue, 02 October 2012 20:55 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The frame is the ground for absolutely nothing on an OEM wired coach.
There are two master grounds on a GMC. One is for the engine electrical system and the master is the engine itself. The other master ground is for the house electrical system and it is the aluminum coach body.
The engine battery neither supplies or receives power from anything attached to the coach frame so that added lead on the engine battery to the coach frame is useless.
The engine battery is simply an engine accessory like anything else running off of the engine electrical system. It needs to be connected direct to the engine.
If you doubt this, simply look at the OEM wiring diagram for any GMC MH version or year and you will see what I am talking about.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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