Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45%
| Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183232] |
Wed, 05 September 2012 19:08  |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Haven’t signed up for the GMCWS rally in Springville, Utah yet? There’s still time. Do it today. Chuck Botts will be sharing his experience with the “Mileage Shop Hydrogen Generator” and how he has managed to improve his mileage by 45% .
That’s just one of the informative sessions in store for you at the rally, which will be held Sept 25 – 30th . There will be five days of education and fun - everything from presentations on engine cooling, and steering boxes, to travel tales, a fiddler fest, a Luau and more. We’ll have our vehicle scales there again and encourage you to weigh your coach for your safety and as a diagnostic tool.
Click here to go directly to the gmcws.org web site and learn more about the rally, and to print the registration and schedule. Hope to see you there.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183242 is a reply to message #183232] |
Wed, 05 September 2012 21:00  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| armandminnie wrote on Wed, 05 September 2012 17:08 |
Haven’t signed up for the GMCWS rally in Springville, Utah yet? There’s still time. Do it today. Chuck Botts will be sharing his experience with the “Mileage Shop Hydrogen Generator” and how he has managed to improve his mileage by 45% .
That’s just one of the informative sessions in store for you at the rally, which will be held Sept 25 – 30th . There will be five days of education and fun - everything from presentations on engine cooling, and steering boxes, to travel tales, a fiddler fest, a Luau and more. We’ll have our vehicle scales there again and encourage you to weigh your coach for your safety and as a diagnostic tool.
Click here to go directly to the gmcws.org web site and learn more about the rally, and to print the registration and schedule. Hope to see you there.
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Are you saying Chuck's Gmc gets 16-18 miles to the gallon of gas ? I thought that Hydrogen stuff was bogus ? I'll bet I got 3-4 MPG last week mountian climbing.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183262 is a reply to message #183254] |
Wed, 05 September 2012 22:05 |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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From their website:
"Hydrogen gas has a much higher flame speed than regular gasoline and
acts as a catalyst to help the gasoline burn more cleanly and
completely. This is why only a small amount of hydrogen is needed. We
use Hydrogen gas not to replace the gasoline, but to assist the
gasoline.
It is common knowledge that only about 30% of the fuel (gas or diesel)
that you put in your vehicles gas tank is not burned during the
engines combustion process. Diesel engines will expell the unburned
fuel directly out of the vehicles exhaust pipe. Gasoline engines use a
catalytic converter, so that the wasted fuel can be re-burned.
By Injecting a small amount of hydrogen gas into your vehicles engine
mixed with your normal fuel will greatly improve the fuels Octane
rating to about 140 Octane, much better than the 91 Octane that you
get at gas stations. This causes a chain reaction with your gasoline
to make it dramatically increase your vehicles horsepower and produce
a complete burning of all the fuel in your vehicles gas tank."
Okay, from the top...
1. "Higher flame speed..." What the heck does that even MEAN? I may be
a lawyer now, but I ain't forgot what physics I learned at my state's
cow college.
2. "Acts as a catalyst..." A catalyst is something that facilitates a
reaction and is not, itself, consumed.
3. "More cleanly and completely..." They appear to be saying that not
all the gasoline gets burned up in the cylinders???
This is a pretty common trick amongst the snake oil salesmen. They use
words that sound great and scientifical and all, when in fact it's all
a bunch of technobabble that either doesn't mean anything, or means
something different. I've seen various devices that purport to do this
or that to the fuel stream to facilitate "more complete burning" etc.
I can assure you, when that explosion takes place inside that
cylinder, darn near every molecule of fuel is going to oxidize.
4. "30 percent of the fuel...isn't burned during the engine[']s
combustion process." Uh, in the words of Wikipedia, [CITATION NEEDED].
5. Hydrogen injection increases the octane rating. This may actually
be true. But higher octane fuel doesn't have more energy in it. It
just allows timing to advance so that certain advantages from more
advanced timing can be realized, resulting in higher horsepower. I
would prefer not to detonate my engine to bits, thankyouverymuch.
6. Wasted fuel is reburned in a catalytic convertor: There isn't any
wasted fuel. All there is is EXHAUST that's been pretty much depleted
of chemical energy. The catalytic convertor facilitates a reaction
(you know, as in CATALYST, see above) that changes some of the exhaust
products from toxic to merely very unhealthy. If there was 30 percent
unburned fuel running through the tail pipes, you better believe we
would have developed reclamation technology to keep from wasting it.
Economics would have demanded it.
7. Chain reaction? Really? Usually that expression is used in relation
to discrete separate components causing each other to react in some
way, often in the context of nuclear fission. I think they really just
mean "it burns up real good."
8. Dramatically increases horsepower: Ok, here they're indicating that
more energy is going to get produced within the same period of time
using their system.
Snake. Oil. You're not going from 10 to 14/15 mpg.
Assuming that things even DID work that way, you will still have the
problem of hydrogen storage for this contraption. Hydrogen has a
NOTORIOUSLY low energy density per unit of volume. Don't get me wrong,
it's great stuff, and we may yet figure out a way to run our engines
off straight hydrogen or motors powered by hydrogen electric fuel
cells, but currently the super high pressure tanks that would fit in a
vehicle can't hold enough hydrogen to really matter. And before
anybody breaks out the ol' "just electrolyse the water to get the
hydrogen" bit, you're going to spend as much energy in electricity
breaking the H2 and the O apart as you would get out of burning
(OXYdizing) the H2! If you've got that much energy, put it into an
electric traction motor instead of commiting chemistry.
Are there any real engineers or physics majors who can back me up on this? :)
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Jon Roche <lqqkatjon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I get 5 to 6. I would be happy to jump to 8 to 9!
>
> bogus?? I guess we will have to wait to see what he says. anyway to webcast that seminar?. would be interesting to see if it worked.
>
>
> --
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2003 Buick Lesabre
1968 Pontiac Catalina
1978 GMC Royale motorhome
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome
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| Re: Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183285 is a reply to message #183232] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 05:30 |
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I have found what I think is a legitimate way to increase the MPG on my GMC.
Found a used sailboat that is being parted out. The main sail and the main mast are available for only $500.
By removing the front air conditioner I have a ready made hold for mounting the mast. The height of the sail is 33 feet.
On a windy day this could increase my MPG by at least 25 percent!
John Ruff
Chandler, AZ
1975 Eleganza
WA3RIG
If I use ZDDP in a new car - will the tappets go flat?
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| Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183298 is a reply to message #183279] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 07:20 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Do a controlled test, anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it. Consider audiophiles - many have spent obscene amounst of money on connecting setups and swear they sound better. Two things are operative here - first is 'placebo effect'. If I spent time and money, than I am likely to perceiev a benefit based on my investment in the item(s). Second, and far mor insidious is "I put the things in and it works waaaay better" and they do. Because they replaced items which were unsuited or worn anyway. In the case of hooking speakers to amplifiers, there's no measurable or discernable difference in Joe Blows gee whiz wire and decent #6 or #8 stranded copper wire. Proven properly in a double blind test by the Audio Engineering Society. Let's do the same with anyone's mileage enhancer before we get married to it. I'm with the Mississippi Moputhpiece on this one - I call BS untill there's a scientifically rigorouis test.
Â
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45%
> How did this crap get on the agenda?
> Is this Chuck Botts idea of a joke?
>
> interesting thing is , that Chuck is spending his time and money doing
something,
not just running off at the mouth like you are.
there is no reason to flame him for your opinion and anecdotal (here say)
just do the test, and report the actual results--- that is what is useful.
- Chuck reported on this system at the Casa rally (just installed and
--he-- said too early to tell.)
- this will be a follow up on how his (Test) is performing
- JimB is also testing this option
so one of the questions is -- if it works, why don't the care makers use
it ?
do the test
do the test
report the results
( and quit mouthing off about something you have never tried)
JWID
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183306 is a reply to message #183298] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 08:43 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Not to get in a pissing contest here, but Hydrogen addition was tested
on a GMC coach by Tom Hampton (Grandview GMC) and Walt Haley on Walt's
coach for many months about a year and a half ago. The unit has since
been removed. I would also value these guys opinion on the merits of
burning hydrogen and their results and experiences.
As for Chuck's experience with the Hydrogen unit I would be interested
to see what test equipment used in his controlled test, how he measure
his fuel usage and other test parameters. How long has the test been
conducted, if less than 6 month to a year and I would suggest that it
is incomplete to check long term benefits. Without proper measurement
and documentation any results will still be Anecdotal. Will their be
streaming video on his presentation? How soon will it be published on
the GMCWS Website?
I would also be interested in Jim Bounds experience and opinion with
this type of mileage enhancement also.
The Mileage Shop track record of success has a somewhat checked past
with a number of complaints against them.
As of right now I will still have to classify this type of mileage
enhancement as unproven as you don't get something nothing! I am with
others on if it work so well, why doesn't' the Auto industry offer
this on their vehicles. They have been testing hydrogen powered
vehicles for a number of years, but the problem is and will be
refueling stations.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183307 is a reply to message #183298] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 08:49 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Chuck Botts is a very honest and trustworthy person.
In his former job, he made projects that has never worked, to a working
state.
We have one on a coach and also Rick Flanagan has had one on it for some
time.
There is more to this than plug and play, like anything else you must
understand what must be done to make it work effectively.
I am a distributor for the units and will be installing more units and with
Chuck and Rick's help, we will get it right.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:20 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Do a controlled test, anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it. Consider
> audiophiles - many have spent obscene amounst of money on connecting setups
> and swear they sound better. Two things are operative here - first is
> 'placebo effect'. If I spent time and money, than I am likely to perceiev
> a benefit based on my investment in the item(s). Second, and far mor
> insidious is "I put the things in and it works waaaay better" and they do.
> Because they replaced items which were unsuited or worn anyway. In the
> case of hooking speakers to amplifiers, there's no measurable or
> discernable difference in Joe Blows gee whiz wire and decent #6 or #8
> stranded copper wire. Proven properly in a double blind test by the Audio
> Engineering Society. Let's do the same with anyone's mileage enhancer
> before we get married to it. I'm with the Mississippi Moputhpiece on this
> one - I call BS untill there's a scientifically rigorouis test.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
>
> From: gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to
> increase your mileage by 45%
>
> > How did this crap get on the agenda?
> > Is this Chuck Botts idea of a joke?
> >
> > interesting thing is , that Chuck is spending his time and money doing
> something,
>
> not just running off at the mouth like you are.
>
> there is no reason to flame him for your opinion and anecdotal (here say)
> just do the test, and report the actual results--- that is what is useful.
>
> - Chuck reported on this system at the Casa rally (just installed and
> --he-- said too early to tell.)
> - this will be a follow up on how his (Test) is performing
> - JimB is also testing this option
>
> so one of the questions is -- if it works, why don't the care makers use
> it ?
>
> do the test
> do the test
> report the results
> ( and quit mouthing off about something you have never tried)
>
> JWID
> gene
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Join us at the upcoming GMCWS rally and learn how to increase your mileage by 45% [message #183308 is a reply to message #183304] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 08:50 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I believe the theory is, "I spent a lot of money on it, so this stuff must work.", Or, "They cannot advertise or sell it if it does not work." Snake oil is snake oil. Actually this may be powered by mouse milk. Now, if we can just figure out how to milk them little mouse herds.
Tom, MS II 8 -9 depending upon speed driven, headwind, tail wind, acts of nature, and the whims of the automotive gods.
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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