Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Battery Charging
| Battery Charging [message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 00:31  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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George Zhookoff and Tom Phipps were over Friday to visit and plunder some parts from the Eleganza. I had this homemade circuit board wired into the transformer that they thought was some kind of battery charger. The ensuing discussion told me that the basic transformer was known as a battery killer because there was nothing to turn it off when the batteries were charged and it just boiled them dry.
OK, so I get home with my new 73 and plugged it into shore power earlier this evening and was sitting here reading the owners manual when I remembered what George and Tom told me. I unplugged the coach from the AC. I'm sure I'm missing something because obviously these things stay plugged in for days/weeks at a time.
Can someone school me on how this works and what I need to do? Obviously I want to charge my batteries but I don't want to cook them either. Is a small modern battery charger in order?
Also does shore power charge both batteries or only the house battery?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Battery Charging [message #180775 is a reply to message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 01:01  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Sun, 19 August 2012 00:31 |
George Zhookoff and Tom Phipps were over Friday to visit and plunder some parts from the Eleganza. I had this homemade circuit board wired into the transformer that they thought was some kind of battery charger. The ensuing discussion told me that the basic transformer was known as a battery killer because there was nothing to turn it off when the batteries were charged and it just boiled them dry.
OK, so I get home with my new 73 and plugged it into shore power earlier this evening and was sitting here reading the owners manual when I remembered what George and Tom told me. I unplugged the coach from the AC. I'm sure I'm missing something because obviously these things stay plugged in for days/weeks at a time.
Can someone school me on how this works and what I need to do? Obviously I want to charge my batteries but I don't want to cook them either. Is a small modern battery charger in order?
Also does shore power charge both batteries or only the house battery?
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Kerry here is the problem. A single stage battery charger puts out around 14.0 volts. A high speed charger puts out even higher voltages. This is good to a point but as the battery reaches full charge it can no longer accept 14.0 volts so the excess voltage (and amperage) ends up has heat and boils the electrolyte in the battery. Now if the voltage applied to the battery were around 13.2 volts the battery could accept that for months and not boil. BUT is also would take days or maybe weeks to fully charge a battery.
So what you want is a battery charger that goes to a higher voltage when a recharge is needed but drops down to a lower voltage when the battery is near fully charged. These type of chargers are usually called "staged" chargers. The original converter in the GMC charges the battery and provides 13.8 volts or so volts to all 12 volt devices used in the house section of the coach. The problem is if left turned on too long the battery gets fully charged and then the electrolyte boils. So most people these days do is buy a staged converter. I have one that runs 3 voltages 14.0, 13.7 and 13.2 volts. The converter is smart enough to know when to reduce the voltage to the maintenance level (13.2 volts) so I leave it plugged in all winter when the coach is parked. I also have several 13.2 volt maintenance only chargers that I leave on my airplane, my motorcycles, my lawn tractors, and my John Deere all the time I am not using them. These will keep the batteries charged and extend the battery life. I just had to replace the battery in my airplane last summer. It was originally installed new in 1999. That means I got 12 years use out of that very expensive battery.
So depending on what you want to accomplish you can look at some of these maintainers, or a multistage charger, or a good new converter for your coach.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Battery Charging [message #180776 is a reply to message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 01:07 |
59ona64
Messages: 41
Registered: July 2012
Location: United States
Karma: 0
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Mark (Habbyguy) is up to speed on all this, too. Search his messages--he replaced his buzzbox with a rad little inverter thing. I don't have a clue, but he does!
Dave >Wannabe< Scottsdale, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery Charging [message #180779 is a reply to message #180776] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 02:34 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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I bought something like this <http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/rv_conv/rv_converter_pd9145a_2.html> to replace my broken IOTA. My beloved PO had replaced the buzz box with the IOTA, but it failed. I think I bought my Progressive Dynamics charger from ebay. Very simple installation and I’ve never worried about my batteries. i plug it in when it’s parked in front of my house and after 2 years I finally checked the water in the batteries and they only needed a slight amount.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Dave wrote:
>
>
> Mark (Habbyguy) is up to speed on all this, too. Search his messages--he replaced his buzzbox with a rad little inverter thing. I don't have a clue, but he does!
>
> --
> Dave >Wannabe< Scottsdale, AZ
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery Charging [message #180780 is a reply to message #180779] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 02:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I also have had a PD converter for about 9 years. I check the water once a year. Usually in the spring.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Battery Charging [message #180782 is a reply to message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 03:15 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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The old buzz is a brilliant study in era design and theory. Remove it and there is list of uses as long as your imagination. Choose one from JimK and if it has a problem you won't have a problem with the problem. My IOTA is only a 30a and fine for coach loads. Bigger is faster. Slower is better for batts. 50 is a good guess for my advice
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery Charging [message #180796 is a reply to message #180785] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 08:32 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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The "converter" (a really stupid description/name) will
charge BOTH engine and house batteries IF you add a
Yandina (or equivalent) combiner at the stock isolator.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 04:38:16 -0700
> From: mr.erfisher@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Battery Charging
>
> can read here
> http://goo.gl/2w3yg
>
> gene
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Kerry Pinkerton <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > George Zhookoff and Tom Phipps were over Friday to visit and plunder some
> > parts from the Eleganza. I had this homemade circuit board wired into the
> > transformer that they thought was some kind of battery charger. The
> > ensuing discussion told me that the basic transformer was known as a
> > battery killer because there was nothing to turn it off when the batteries
> > were charged and it just boiled them dry.
> >
> > OK, so I get home with my new 73 and plugged it into shore power earlier
> > this evening and was sitting here reading the owners manual when I
> > remembered what George and Tom told me. I unplugged the coach from the AC.
> > I'm sure I'm missing something because obviously these things stay plugged
> > in for days/weeks at a time.
> >
> > Can someone school me on how this works and what I need to do? Obviously
> > I want to charge my batteries but I don't want to cook them either. Is a
> > small modern battery charger in order?
> >
> > Also does shore power charge both batteries or only the house battery?
> > --
> > Kerry
> >
> > North Alabama, near Huntsville
> > 76 Eleganza being rebodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
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| Re: Battery Charging [message #180802 is a reply to message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 09:04 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I'll echo Larry's suggestion for the PD9145. It's one of the best things you can do to improve your coach for the money, hands down. It will pay for itself in a very short time, by NOT boiling your batteries dry, and in reduced generator run time. I noticed a big difference in the power to the house 12VDC circuit when the coach was plugged in, too (the lights got noticeably brighter and the fans kicked it up a notch too). Plus, you lose about 40 pounds of weight (which is like a flea on an elephant, but still...).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Battery Charging [message #180807 is a reply to message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 09:58 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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My trandmode charges - trickles - the house battery, I suspect it has been disconnected.. I have a solar panel which holds it up. At any rate, when I check the water, it isn't gone... or even under the top of the plates. It's an old 'get by ' battery. I have - and replace every two years - the teo year old from one of our gensets. Fits the PB, I'm not sure about the 23 footer.
--johnny
'76 23' trandmode norris
'76 palm beach
--johnny
From: Kerry Pinkerton <Pinkertonk@MCHSI.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 1:31 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Battery Charging
George Zhookoff and Tom Phipps were over Friday to visit and plunder some parts from the Eleganza. I had this homemade circuit board wired into the transformer that they thought was some kind of battery charger. The ensuing discussion told me that the basic transformer was known as a battery killer because there was nothing to turn it off when the batteries were charged and it just boiled them dry.
OK, so I get home with my new 73 and plugged it into shore power earlier this evening and was sitting here reading the owners manual when I remembered what George and Tom told me. I unplugged the coach from the AC. I'm sure I'm missing something because obviously these things stay plugged in for days/weeks at a time.
Can someone school me on how this works and what I need to do? Obviously I want to charge my batteries but I don't want to cook them either. Is a small modern battery charger in order?
Also does shore power charge both batteries or only the house battery?
--
Kerry
North Alabama, near Huntsville
76 Eleganza being rebodied as an Art Deco car hauler
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Battery Charging [message #180808 is a reply to message #180771] |
Sun, 19 August 2012 10:38 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
When I first got my coach, I was COMPLETELY ignorant about such things as battery charging. I plugged the coach in as soon as I was able to get power to it, and left it plugged in. A few weeks later, when I checked the electrolyte level in the two 6v golf cart, house batteries, it was below the top of the plates. I managed to keep those batteries alive for another year+, but eventually had to replace them. The coach had been in summer storage, in Phoenix, before we acquired it, so the batteries may have been low in the first place.
One of the first things I did was to replace the 'buzz box' with a Progressive Dynamics PD-9245 charger, at Jim Bounds' suggestion. I bought it from him and paid a little more for it (and the good advice) than I would have from another source, but considered the extra money well spent. Jim said it was a "plug and play" device and I would not have to worry about it ever again. He was right. It has kept the batteries charged and conditioned ever since. Living in the hot, arid desert of Southern Arizona, I still check the water level in the batteries frequently (actually about every three to four months, or whenever I think of it), but have had to add very little water whenever I check them.
Since then, I have replaced the original 10g wire, to the battery cable in the back of the elec. compartment, with a 6g. I did this after noticing that the plastic conduit the wire was in, was melted. I have a Trimetric meter on my house batteries that shows a charge of a good 40 amps (at first) diminishing as the batteries charges. I also have a combiner in place of the isolator, which allows charging from any and all sources, of both the house and the chassis batteries. Without a combiner, the charger/converter will charge only the house battery under normal circumstances.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[Updated on: Sun, 19 August 2012 13:40] Report message to a moderator |
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