Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge
| [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180115] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 15:35  |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Hi All:
It's all back together, and it's pretty awesome (1-Ton/Reaction Arm/All new brakes and brake lines (MC.. the works)/Aluminum Radiator, everything on the front end, new final drive)
It stops and it goes and the brakes are a serious wow.
All that being said, I'm having a transmission fluid leak. It's pretty severe.
I put the pan on, and I'm certain that's not the cause of the leak, but it does seem to be in the final drive area.
Any words of wisdom or places to look?
I'll dig into it this weekend, but any suggestions and hard won experience is greatly appreciated.
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180118 is a reply to message #180115] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 15:54  |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Dolph
How was you initial front end alignment. I just did the 1 ton also but i have my front clip out so i have no references. I just put the offset bolts to recomended and put my tie rods on reversed i hope im close but right now it looks kinda pidgen toed. I hope when i get the weight back on it they will straighten out.
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180132 is a reply to message #180115] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 17:12 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Dolph,
What kind of transmission pan did you put on it? I had a really hard time getting my new Gary Rockwell transmission pan to seal. I had it on and off several times, tried two different brands of gaskets, and even used RTV and stainless steel washers on the bolt heads to try to get it to stop leaking. I finally got it to where it is only a minor annoyance, but it's still not completely sealed.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180144 is a reply to message #180115] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 19:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dolph,
Transmission pan, modulator, dip stick, governor, and speedometer gear are
the easy ones so should be checked first. Then, one of the most common
leak sources, and fortunately one of the easiest, if highly annoying, to
fix, is the cooler lines where they enter the transmission. Those can be
deceptive because the draining fluid may not appear before it reaches the
"shelf" between the transmission and the engine.
Probably next in ease of repair, is the FD-to-TH425 junction. Remember
that the gasket between the final drive and the transmission is exposed to
transmission fluid -- the dipstick actually enters through there. I always
worry about tearing that, so when I installed mine a week or so ago, I used
studs for most of the fasteners, to be sure the FD was well guided into
position. In addition, I made a 2-piece polyethylene guard which stayed in
place until the FD was well aligned and secured. I just posted a photo of
it here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/th425-lifting-device/p45166-the-final-drive-gasket.html
or
http://goo.gl/bTWCn
The gadget's not pretty; it was made from scraps of old cutting boards so
has unexpected/unnecessary contours. But it removed all worry about
damaging the gasket.
Good luck; hope it's nothing more serious than one of those.
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Dolph Santorine wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> It's all back together, and it's pretty awesome (1-Ton/Reaction Arm/All
> new brakes and brake lines (MC.. the works)/Aluminum Radiator, everything
> on the front end, new final drive)
>
> It stops and it goes and the brakes are a serious wow.
>
> All that being said, I'm having a transmission fluid leak. It's pretty
> severe.
>
> I put the pan on, and I'm certain that's not the cause of the leak, but it
> does seem to be in the final drive area.
>
> Any words of wisdom or places to look?
>
> I'll dig into it this weekend, but any suggestions and hard won experience
> is greatly appreciated.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180153 is a reply to message #180115] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 20:46 |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I had a transmission leak that appeared to be from the dip stick tube and it turned out to be the weep hole in the FD that leaks if the seals between the transmission and final drive are leaking. The weep hole is right next to the dip stick. I could not find any documentation of it anywhere but when I told JimK and Manny about it they both told me to pull the FD and replace those seals. That fixed it.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180155 is a reply to message #180153] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 21:25 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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While we're talking about transmissions: When I last replaced my
transmission I finally did something I've threatened to do for a long time:
There are 3 bolts holding the rear transmission mounting plate to the
transmission. The upper left (driver's side) one of those is, for me, in a
really terrible place to reach. I've spent over an hour at times trying to
get that darned bolt installed and tightened. After the 6-8 times I've had
to do it, I've reached my maximum proficiency at it -- TERRIBLE. So this
time, while the transmission was out, I positioned the mount exactly as it
should be when everything's in place, then used a long drill bit to drill
through the lower step riser into the cabin. Then I went inside and used a
hole saw to open a hole large enough to pass the required 5/8" socket to
install that darned bolt.
When I re-installed the transmission, I wanted to kick myself for not
having done that 10+ years ago -- the bolt was in place in about 1 minute,
with no contortions, dislocated extremities, bleeding arms, cramped
fingers, nor blue streaks of frustration!
In my case, concealing the hole was no problem: I have in that location an
added carpeted batten which serves as a runner for my "gas powered dining
table" while it's being erected or stowed. The hole fell directly behind
that so I only had to cut a slot in the hidden carpet, insert a metal cover
for the new access hole, and screw the batten back in place. Without that
fortuitous situation, I'd have lifted the carpet there, before drilling,
and put the metal cover behind the carpet.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this mod. I'm not sure I can provide sufficiently
accurate dimensions to allow anyone to drill the hole from the inside, but
removal of the bolt isn't nearly as hard as installation. Suffer through
the removal, then do the mod in preparation for re-installation -- you'll
be GLAD you did.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180163 is a reply to message #180132] |
Mon, 13 August 2012 22:47 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Carl
I'm using the stock pan, and I thought that the new gasket would solve it.
It didn't.
Dolph Santorine
Dolph@DolphSantorine.com
Phone: 304-219-3100
Cell: 740-312-5342
Http://www.DolphSantorine.com
Excuse me for not being my usual wordy and sporadically verbose self. This message is sent from my iPad, which is, in many ways, an iPhone on steroids.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. Few long dead dinosaurs were involved. A large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
On Aug 13, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Carl Stouffer <carljr3b@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dolph,
>
> What kind of transmission pan did you put on it? I had a really hard time getting my new Gary Rockwell transmission pan to seal. I had it on and off several times, tried two different brands of gaskets, and even used RTV and stainless steel washers on the bolt heads to try to get it to stop leaking. I finally got it to where it is only a minor annoyance, but it's still not completely sealed.
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180174 is a reply to message #180118] |
Tue, 14 August 2012 06:21 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ted,
I wouldn't be too concerned about wheel alignment until you get it all back
together. Remember that the alignment order is Caster, Camber, and Toe,
consecutively. And that the 1-Ton suspension causes more Camber change
than the original. It'll all work out in the end when the weight's on it.
When do you expect to be ready to re-install? I'd like to be there & will
bring my alignment rig.
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Ted Petty wrote:
>
>
> Dolph
> How was you initial front end alignment. I just did the 1 ton also but i
> have my front clip out so i have no references. I just put the offset bolts
> to recomended and put my tie rods on reversed i hope im close but right now
> it looks kinda pidgen toed. I hope when i get the weight back on it they
> will straighten out.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180177 is a reply to message #180155] |
Tue, 14 August 2012 07:05 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Ken -
How about a photo or drawing with dimensions for locating the hole?
--johnny
'76 23' transmode notrris
'76 palm beach
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge
While we're talking about transmissions: When I last replaced my
transmission I finally did something I've threatened to do for a long time:
There are 3 bolts holding the rear transmission mounting plate to the
transmission. The upper left (driver's side) one of those is, for me, in a
really terrible place to reach. I've spent over an hour at times trying to
get that darned bolt installed and tightened. After the 6-8 times I've had
to do it, I've reached my maximum proficiency at it -- TERRIBLE. So this
time, while the transmission was out, I positioned the mount exactly as it
should be when everything's in place, then used a long drill bit to drill
through the lower step riser into the cabin. Then I went inside and used a
hole saw to open a hole large enough to pass the required 5/8" socket to
install that darned bolt.
When I re-installed the transmission, I wanted to kick myself for not
having done that 10+ years ago -- the bolt was in place in about 1 minute,
with no contortions, dislocated extremities, bleeding arms, cramped
fingers, nor blue streaks of frustration!
In my case, concealing the hole was no problem: I have in that location an
added carpeted batten which serves as a runner for my "gas powered dining
table" while it's being erected or stowed. The hole fell directly behind
that so I only had to cut a slot in the hidden carpet, insert a metal cover
for the new access hole, and screw the batten back in place. Without that
fortuitous situation, I'd have lifted the carpet there, before drilling,
and put the metal cover behind the carpet.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this mod. I'm not sure I can provide sufficiently
accurate dimensions to allow anyone to drill the hole from the inside, but
removal of the bolt isn't nearly as hard as installation. Suffer through
the removal, then do the mod in preparation for re-installation -- you'll
be GLAD you did.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
http://www.gmcwipersetc.com/
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180195 is a reply to message #180163] |
Tue, 14 August 2012 09:55 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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My trans had a leak that I chased back to the shift arm. There is a small o ring that seals the shift arm and it had compressed and hardened. The o ring was like a dollar or something from oschucks. I have a fairly comprehensive o ring kit but the correct one was in between sizes in my kit. If you order one from oschucks and they send you something that looks like a seal then it is likely to be incorrect. I sent the o ring back with the driver and obtained a good replacement. Then I ordered a second one and put it in the same bag as my back up wiper motor screen filter as cleaning said filter on the road would be challenging.
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2012, at 8:47 PM, Dolph Santorine <dolph@dolphsantorine.com> wrote:
> Carl
>
> I'm using the stock pan, and I thought that the new gasket would solve it.
>
> It didn't.
>
> Dolph Santorine
>
> Dolph@DolphSantorine.com
>
> Phone: 304-219-3100
> Cell: 740-312-5342
>
> Http://www.DolphSantorine.com
>
> Excuse me for not being my usual wordy and sporadically verbose self. This message is sent from my iPad, which is, in many ways, an iPhone on steroids.
>
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. Few long dead dinosaurs were involved. A large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
> On Aug 13, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Carl Stouffer <carljr3b@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dolph,
>>
>> What kind of transmission pan did you put on it? I had a really hard time getting my new Gary Rockwell transmission pan to seal. I had it on and off several times, tried two different brands of gaskets, and even used RTV and stainless steel washers on the bolt heads to try to get it to stop leaking. I finally got it to where it is only a minor annoyance, but it's still not completely sealed.
>> --
>> Carl S.
>> '75 ex Palm Beach
>> Tucson, AZ.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180215 is a reply to message #180195] |
Tue, 14 August 2012 11:33 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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On Aug 14, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Todd Sullivan wrote:
> My trans had a leak that I chased back to the shift arm. There is a small o ring that seals the shift arm and it had compressed and hardened. The o ring was like a dollar or something from oschucks.
Hi, do you have a part # on the shift arm O-ring?
Thanks,
Jim
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180223 is a reply to message #180215] |
Tue, 14 August 2012 12:16 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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It's National part # 012. Cost of $.50
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 14, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Jim Miller <gmcnet@jcmco.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 14, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Todd Sullivan wrote:
>
>> My trans had a leak that I chased back to the shift arm. There is a small o ring that seals the shift arm and it had compressed and hardened. The o ring was like a dollar or something from oschucks.
>
>
> Hi, do you have a part # on the shift arm O-ring?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> --Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180250 is a reply to message #180177] |
Tue, 14 August 2012 16:29 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
I'm a little reluctant to publish the dimensions because the reliable
vertical reference point is the top of the step or the floor, both of which
on my coach are concealed beneath securely affixed carpet and pad. The
horizontal reference would be a side wall, which may be of variable
thickness; on the 23' it could be the entry door casing, but not on a 26'.
I don't want to be responsible for folks messing up their coach. Removal
of the bolt's not too bad; then the hole can easily be located accurately.
But I'll do it if Y'All insist.
Ken H.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> Ken -
>
> How about a photo or drawing with dimensions for locating the hole?
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180368 is a reply to message #180321] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 11:57 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Nope see steps: 2) & 5)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Davick
Permatex on one side of the gasket Mr. M?
Larry
On Aug 14, 2012, at 9:26 AM, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Dolph,
>
> Suggestions:
>
> 1) take a ball peen hammer and dimple the bolt holes towards the bolt heads slightly
>
> 2) get some Permatex Aviation sealer and coat the pan flange with it
>
> 3) put the gasket on flange
>
> 4) take some thread and tie all four corners of the gasket to the pan
>
> 5) coat the gasket with Permatex Aviation sealer
>
> 6) install the pan and finger tighten the bolts
>
> 7) torque the pan bolts to 1/2 the spec (I'm too lazy to look it up for you)
>
> 8) torque the pan bolts to the spec
>
> 9) wait 24 hours and torque them again
>
> 10) fill the trans with Mobil 1 Synthetic Fluid
>
> 11) drive the GMC to leak check it
>
> 12) next time you're under the GMC re-torque the pan bolts
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180412 is a reply to message #180144] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 19:23 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 13 August 2012 17:52 |
Dolph,
Transmission pan, modulator, dip stick, governor, and speedometer gear are
the easy ones so should be checked first. Then, one of the most common
leak sources, and fortunately one of the easiest, if highly annoying, to
fix, is the cooler lines where they enter the transmission. Those can be
deceptive because the draining fluid may not appear before it reaches the
"shelf" between the transmission and the engine.
Ken H.
|
Dolph,
I had the same thing as Ken. The trans cooler tubes cost me about $100 in fluid because I was pretty sure it was the pan. I had looked... Opening the hatch and looking straight down by my seat belt. Ther was a tiny,tiny bit of red oil in the little valley below the tubes. What I didn't know is there is a wormhole in the webbing,going forward. It leads to the top of the trans, and then down the _right_ side and onto the top of the valve body. It runs forward, especially when braking and appears between the FD an the trans.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transmission Fluid Leak - knowledge [message #180449 is a reply to message #180412] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 22:39 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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this is my next job to tackle
it should be easy to spot though as the back of the coach has oil all over it!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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