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| Inverter for TV [message #179775] |
Fri, 10 August 2012 17:08  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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I am installing a 19" flat panel TV in my coach, and have a question on what's the best way to power the 120 volts needed. I am mounting it over the monitor panel area close to the ceiling (I have moved the monitors elsewhere), and can run a 120 volt power cord to the outlet behind my refrigerator. Otherwise, I could install an inverter to power it even when the coach is not plugged in or has the generator running.
Can a small inverter provide enough power for this type of load? Should I just use the inverter to power the TV all the time? What gauge wire should be run to the fuse panel (about a 10 foot run) to power the inverter, or can I tap not the one that provides 12 volts to the fridge? I have no experience with inverters, so any suggestions are appreciated.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179777 is a reply to message #179775] |
Fri, 10 August 2012 17:19  |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
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Hi
I use a 150 watt cigarette plug in model and it handles bothe the TV and and BluRay DVD player without problems they draw 45 watts for the TV and 30 watts for the DVD
HTH
John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179787 is a reply to message #179777] |
Fri, 10 August 2012 18:54 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Would be nice to have both power sources available for the TV. Or, any possibility of a 12v only TV? One of my small LCD TV's actually is. 12v.
The power brick does the conversion. Only reason that I have not converted this set to strictly 12v is the unusual plug that attaches to TV. If I could find another duplicate cord, I would adapt it.
The 12v to the frig wiring would not do both tasks. If you bring 12v to the TV, you will have to calculate the gauge based on the length of the run. It would actually be easier to use the inverter as close to the battery pack as possible, then a smaller gauge AC line could go to TV.
Just the way that I will do it. In my coach, the inverter is just behind the driver's seat, on very heavy gauge wire, I'm guessing #4 gauge.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179791 is a reply to message #179775] |
Fri, 10 August 2012 20:02 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Yes, be sure to use an adequate size wire for the 12VDC input to any inverter. Most of the issues I've seen seem to be related to having too much voltage drop to the input's DC input.
You might want to consider getting an inverter that's sized for more than just the TV, and wiring it in so you'll have 120VAC any time you need it, all over the coach. That's a lot more work, but a whole lot more useful, too. The inverter is cheap enough, though the installation (if you need it) and accessories can add to the cost. I'm working on installing a 1000 watt (2000 watt peak) inverter in my Royale, and should end up with no more than about $100 - plus the possibility that I'll have to run bigger 12VDC wiring to the rear of the coach where it'll be mounted. Drop me a line if you'd like more info (I don't want to bore anyone else since there was just a lengthy discussion on the inverter wiring).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179795 is a reply to message #179787] |
Fri, 10 August 2012 22:41 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| tphipps wrote on Fri, 10 August 2012 19:54 |
<snipped for claritiy>
One of my small LCD TV's actually is. 12v.
The power brick does the conversion. Only reason that I have not converted this set to strictly 12v is the unusual plug that attaches to TV. If I could find another duplicate cord, I would adapt it.
<snipped for brevity>
Tom, MS II
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Tom,
I have, in the past used two very different means to get by the issue at hand.
1 - Cut the existing power cable between the 12V supply and the unit and install a molex plug and socket set.
Now get another socket set and attach your 12V connector of choice to that.
2 - Find a molex or the like with socket pins to mate with the unit.
Solder appropriate wires to the pins and the 12V connector of choice to the other end.
Coat the inside of the power connection and some area around on the unit with some kind of mold release (I use DC7, it is available at pattern supply shops).
For ease of handling, slide a short (~2") piece of tubing over the wires.
Push the pins onto the power connections.
Fill the space with RTV or similar.
Slide the hose down and fill it with the same. This will be your handle and bend relief.
When it cures, you have a plug.
Be sure you kept track of the polarity......
Good luck
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179849 is a reply to message #179775] |
Sat, 11 August 2012 13:09 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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I just found out that the TV draws 35 watts, so a small, plug in inverter should do fine.
Probably off to Harbor Freight as they're on sale for $19.95 right now. Eventually, a larger one may make sense, but this should do the trick for now.
Thanks for the replies!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179890 is a reply to message #179875] |
Sat, 11 August 2012 19:43 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Sat, 11 August 2012 14:35 |
Those little cheap suckers draw current so don't forget to pull them out of the plug when not using them.
dan
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FYI, I checked the current drain of the Harbor Freight 1000 watt (2000 watt peak) inverter at idle. It was drawing 1.05 amps, after settling down (it drew a little more than that when first powered up, but not for long enough to matter). I put in a thermal switch to take the two fans out of the circuit until the inside of the inverter gets to 140 degrees, which lowered the idle current to 0.81 amps. I was hoping for a bigger reduction, but I guess that's still not too bad for an inverter that big. The next mod will be to run a remote on/off lighted switch to my generator panel (or nearby).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179908 is a reply to message #179890] |
Sat, 11 August 2012 22:12 |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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| habbyguy wrote on Sat, 11 August 2012 19:43 |
| WD0AFQ wrote on Sat, 11 August 2012 14:35 |
Those little cheap suckers draw current so don't forget to pull them out of the plug when not using them.
dan
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FYI, I checked the current drain of the Harbor Freight 1000 watt (2000 watt peak) inverter at idle. It was drawing 1.05 amps, after settling down (it drew a little more than that when first powered up, but not for long enough to matter). I put in a thermal switch to take the two fans out of the circuit until the inside of the inverter gets to 140 degrees, which lowered the idle current to 0.81 amps. I was hoping for a bigger reduction, but I guess that's still not too bad for an inverter that big. The next mod will be to run a remote on/off lighted switch to my generator panel (or nearby).
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Wow. My little 700 watt HF draws about .6 idle. The large 2k Vector only .4. When we dry camp for extended times, like in Quartzsite, I switch the tv stuff over to the Vector.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179911 is a reply to message #179775] |
Sat, 11 August 2012 22:33 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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If I understand correctly, you want to have a short run on the 12 volt wiring, but can have a longer run on the 120volt wiring.
Can the inverter be placed in the cabinet with the house fuse panel and breaker box, then a longer extension cord be run over to the door area? Eventually, I'd like to design a circuit that would allow me to choose between the inverter power or the generator/pedestal power source to power the TV.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179918 is a reply to message #179911] |
Sun, 12 August 2012 04:20 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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You have it correct George. Line or cable loss is directly related to current flow, the diameter of the cable, and the length of the cable. You have approximately 10 times the current flow on the 12 volt side when compared to the 120 volt side.
Also a 1 volt drop on the 12 volt side of the inverter is significant (almost 10%), while a 1 volt drop on the 120 volt side of the inverter is not even noticed (about 1%).
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179935 is a reply to message #179911] |
Sun, 12 August 2012 09:11 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Sat, 11 August 2012 20:33 |
Can the inverter be placed in the cabinet with the house fuse panel and breaker box, then a longer extension cord be run over to the door area? Eventually, I'd like to design a circuit that would allow me to choose between the inverter power or the generator/pedestal power source to power the TV.
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I plan on placing my inverter back under the bed, next to the AC fuse panel (I'm waiting to see if the battery cable that runs back there from the front-mounted house batteries is big enough - I have a line on some seriously heavy welding cable if it isn't).
My plan is to build an auto-switch that will automatically revert to shore or generator power when it's available. This will allow me to run everything in the coach on the inverter, except for the roof-mounted A/C units which just draw too much current and would run down the house batteries too fast even if my inverter could handle it. My auto-switch is a little simpler because I'm not going to bother including an auto-switch function between the generator and shore power, since I have to unplug my generator anyway to hook up to shore power.
Here's what I came up with... first, a fairly inexpensive three pole, double-throw relay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UL-CERTIFIED-40A-3-Phase-3PDT-Relay-Socket-Motor-Control-12V-24V-120V-240V-AC-DC-/230835649802?pt=Home_Automation_Modules& hash=item35bee07d0a
Then a circuit to make it all work:
http://www.habcycles.com/inverter.jpg
Note that this switch also disconnects the buzz box / battery charger when the inverter is online (since you don't want to use battery power to charge the battery, unless you've figured out that pesky perpetual motion conundrum!).
This will mean that I don't have to swap plugs around or run extension cords to my inverter. I'm also going to remote the inverter on/off switch to the panel next to the generator control switch, so it's all in one place (and to remind me to turn off the inverter if I'm going to be firing up the Onan).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Inverter for TV [message #179954 is a reply to message #179911] |
Sun, 12 August 2012 12:10 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Sat, 11 August 2012 20:33 |
If I understand correctly, you want to have a short run on the 12 volt wiring, but can have a longer run on the 120volt wiring.
Can the inverter be placed in the cabinet with the house fuse panel and breaker box, then a longer extension cord be run over to the door area? Eventually, I'd like to design a circuit that would allow me to choose between the inverter power or the generator/pedestal power source to power the TV.
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George,
That's exactly what I did. I put the inverter in the electrical cabinet and hooked it up to the hot and ground in the rear (on the outside wall) of that cabinet, with the cables supplied. I then ran outdoor rated extension cords to outlet boxes I cut into the seat bases. Here are a few pics:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-tv-mount/p41551-inverter.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-tv-mount/p41554-inverter-outlet.html
Right or wrong, this works well for the light loads we put on the inverter. I hooked the positive to the terminal in the 2g cable that goes from back to front, and the ground to the body. this was a KISS approach.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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