Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related)
| [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #175960] |
Sat, 07 July 2012 21:35  |
Sammy Williams
Messages: 522
Registered: August 2010
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Hi!
I am wondering, with many GMC owners looking to get more power, but
wanting to keep stock engines/components, I began to wonder,
What about turbocharging, a kit could be bolt on, providing more power
from the 455 without replacing it. Is there such a kit already or
designed, I am sure it shouldn't be to tough to make a system (either
1 or 2 turbos) to mate to the GMC for more power for passing
or hill climbing. Thoughts?
S. Williams
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #175961 is a reply to message #175960] |
Sat, 07 July 2012 21:53  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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There should be no reason that one couldn't e fabricated, but I think you'd have to go to EFI as well. I don't know if the compression ratio of the stock pistons could stand the increase in pressure without changes as well. JimK has a turbocharged Cadillac engine in his, and I'm sure there are plenty of drag boats around that are running either turbos or superchargers. However, at highway speeds, it's the torque more than the horsepower that is most important as that's what gets these things moving.
As the old racing saying goes, Speed costs Money, how fast do you want to go?
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #175964 is a reply to message #175960] |
Sat, 07 July 2012 22:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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JimK has the ultimate turbo charged GMC it is a 500 cubic inch Cadillac
stroked out to 540 ci and runs twin turbo chargers!
I have had my GMC for four years and attended six conventions and have yet
to have the pleasure of seeing him do this:
http://www.appliedgmc.com/images/smoke.jpg
My jet lag is catching up with me I'll let someone else provide additional
details.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sammy Williams
Hi!
I am wondering, with many GMC owners looking to get more power, but
wanting to keep stock engines/components, I began to wonder,
What about turbocharging, a kit could be bolt on, providing more power
from the 455 without replacing it. Is there such a kit already or
designed, I am sure it shouldn't be to tough to make a system (either
1 or 2 turbos) to mate to the GMC for more power for passing
or hill climbing. Thoughts?
S. Williams
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #175971 is a reply to message #175964] |
Sat, 07 July 2012 22:57 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Does anyone know, or remember, Ralph Brumbaugh? IIRC, he was VP of Alaskan
Airline, and had an intercooled turbocharger on his GMC -- or perhaps more
than one of them, since he had several in his immediate family. He was
renowned for his high speed trips up & down the Alcan Highway. I met him
at his home in Wasilla, AK. I went there trying to find out how to correct
the 3/4" out of alignment right rear bogie arm which resulted when I
avoided T-boning a Freightliner in MO. Haven't seen nor heard of him
since. I wonder if he's still GMCing, etc.?
Ken H.
...What about turbocharging, a kit could be bolt on, providing more power
> from the 455 without replacing it. Is there such a kit already or
>
> designed, I am sure it shouldn't be to tough to make a system (either
> 1 or 2 turbos) to mate to the GMC for more power for passing
> or hill climbing. Thoughts?
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176010 is a reply to message #175961] |
Sun, 08 July 2012 08:43 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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If I were considering turbocharging and running boost as opposed to simply holding sea level, I'd investigate backing the compression up a half-number or so. I'd also go for a high volume oil pump, and open the passages up enough to get a lot of oil up to the wrist pins. Drill the top of the rod so there's oil spray on the bottom of the piston crowns for cooling. Sodium filled exhaust valves if you can find them, and it ought to live about as well as the normally aspirated. $$$ though.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related)
There should be no reason that one couldn't e fabricated, but I think you'd have to go to EFI as well. I don't know if the compression ratio of the stock pistons could stand the increase in pressure without changes as well. JimK has a turbocharged Cadillac engine in his, and I'm sure there are plenty of drag boats around that are running either turbos or superchargers. However, at highway speeds, it's the torque more than the horsepower that is most important as that's what gets these things moving.
As the old racing saying goes, Speed costs Money, how fast do you want to go?
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176089 is a reply to message #175960] |
Sun, 08 July 2012 19:42 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Sammy Williams wrote on Sat, 07 July 2012 22:35 |
Hi!
I am wondering, with many GMC owners looking to get more power, but wanting to keep stock engines/components, I began to wonder,
What about turbocharging, a kit could be bolt on, providing more power from the 455 without replacing it. Is there such a kit already or designed, I am sure it shouldn't be to tough to make a system (either 1 or 2 turbos) to mate to the GMC for more power for passing or hill climbing. Thoughts?
S. Williams
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After having been the guy on about an half a dozen (no exaggeration here) turbocharger add-on programs for OE (some were never brought to market), let me tell you that it is no small task.
It is not all that difficult to buy the correct size (Comp-A/R, Turb-A/R, basic volume) turbocharger and then fabricate all the correct parts to make it work. But then to make the subject engine live with what you have done can be a major challenge. Right off, I can't think of a much worse candidate than a GMC. JMHO - based on some experience and other peoples money.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176131 is a reply to message #176089] |
Mon, 09 July 2012 10:01 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I will kick in with my experience with pressure power adders, the old axial
flow latham type, the centrifigal McCullough type, GMC Roots type, and two
different types of turbochargers. European, as found on SAAB automobiles
(Great big turbines that took a lot of exhaust to compress any air, but
boy, when they did you had a real handful of front drive car), And finally,
my current turbocharged car, a 2003 Chrysler Dream Cruiser. It took
Chrysler a while to get this one right, but 220 horsepower @ 5000 rpm or so
from a 2.4 Liter 4 cylinder premium fuel motor that essentially has it all.
Dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, fuel injection, intercooled and
computer controls on the turbo to limit boost. The compressor and exhaust
turbine wheels are perfectly matched to the cfm of the engine. It is a joy
to drive with no lag or huge amount of boost that comes on like gang
busters on the top end. All of these systems do the same thing. Compress
(and concentrate the latent heat present) air and improve cylinder filling.
The more you compress air, the more you concentrate the heat present in it
which is a bad thing. Leads to uncontrolled combustion events and lots of
broken parts. I know, been there, done that too many times, but my oh my is
it fun. Still a teenager with some one elses car on a saturday night, I
guess. Yes, a GMC can be turbocharges and intercooled. Lots of money and
you can make anything work, maybe not as reliably as we expect our
motorhomes to be, though. When you put a lot of boost on that 2 bolt
mainbearing Olds, $tuff $ometimes happen$.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sammy Williams wrote on Sat, 07 July 2012 22:35
> > Hi!
> > I am wondering, with many GMC owners looking to get more power, but
> wanting to keep stock engines/components, I began to wonder,
> >
> > What about turbocharging, a kit could be bolt on, providing more power
> from the 455 without replacing it. Is there such a kit already or designed,
> I am sure it shouldn't be to tough to make a system (either 1 or 2 turbos)
> to mate to the GMC for more power for passing or hill climbing. Thoughts?
> >
> > S. Williams
>
> After having been the guy on about an half a dozen (no exaggeration here)
> turbocharger add-on programs for OE (some were never brought to market),
> let me tell you that it is no small task.
>
> It is not all that difficult to buy the correct size (Comp-A/R, Turb-A/R,
> basic volume) turbocharger and then fabricate all the correct parts to make
> it work. But then to make the subject engine live with what you have done
> can be a major challenge. Right off, I can't think of a much worse
> candidate than a GMC. JMHO - based on some experience and other peoples
> money.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176276 is a reply to message #175961] |
Tue, 10 July 2012 22:50 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""However, at highway speeds, it's the torque more than the horsepower that is most important as that's what gets these things moving.
"'
That is not true at all. Torque is force and horse power is just that--power. The two are related in that HP=T x rpm/5454.
There is a lot of mis-information that continues to be propogated by some of our "heritage" members that is totally wrong, misleading and demonstrates a lack of understanding. What is important is having torque available in a RPM range that fits the usage of the particular vehicle. Having a lot of torque off the line with no extension or availabilty at higher RPM will only give you a grunt when in reality you want a continuous amount of motive power and ability to not just launch but be able to pass or maintain speed at any speed you want to.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176279 is a reply to message #176266] |
Tue, 10 July 2012 22:54 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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I was taught by a guy that understood the turbo system well.
Mine is port injected,inter cooled and twinturboed.
To get a great effect , one needs to run lower compression ratio.
I have traveled over 800,000 miles on them.
After shearing the shaft on one, I ended up purchasing the new ones with
larger shaft.
Hope to have it back in before the Fall convention in Iowa.
Mine is water cooled and all parts are ceramic coated.
We are capable of doing a kit, but feel it is easier to do on a fuel
injected engine
We can do one on a Olds engine with EFI for around $5-7K..
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Michael Bozardt <ilse@earth-comm.com>wrote:
>
>
> I HAVE IT! I have the turbo, the plumbing, including the exhaust manifold
> with the turbo attached- all from AJ Marshall's GMC. I also have the drive
> train which I want to keep, at least for now. The engine is also port fuel
> injected on a high rise Edelbrock manifold but I did not get the
> electronics.
>
> If you are interested in buying the turbo and all of the related parts let
> me know......Thx, Michael Bozardt at GEMRECS
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176877 is a reply to message #175960] |
Sun, 15 July 2012 23:11 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I give Jim credit for pulling this off as as Matt says no small task. For example on the Buicks the Turbo 6 was not recommended for towing. Gas engines and turbos are mostly for short term power blasts, not long term road load horsepower as in towing or Motorhome (same boat anchor effect either way) With modern OBDII computers and management it apparently can be done, if Ford long term durabilty proves true, then the Ecoboost V6 is a winner in the F150 and Police Taurus package. There are 4 videos on youtube with the WOT torture testing they did which is pretty impressive. I know that the pistons were different in the Turbo Buick as was a very long list of other components to make them live IE keep down warranty claims to an acceptable number.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176879 is a reply to message #176877] |
Mon, 16 July 2012 01:04 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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John,
We have had few units come through our shop with turbo.
Our guys felt that they did not produce much power compared to mine.
I made sure we have the least restriction in the intake and exhaust.
I run 2 ea, 3" mandrel bent pipes that join into a 4" mandrel bent pipe.
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 9:11 PM, John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I give Jim credit for pulling this off as as Matt says no small task. For
> example on the Buicks the Turbo 6 was not recommended for towing. Gas
> engines and turbos are mostly for short term power blasts, not long term
> road load horsepower as in towing or Motorhome (same boat anchor effect
> either way) With modern OBDII computers and management it apparently can
> be done, if Ford long term durabilty proves true, then the Ecoboost V6 is a
> winner in the F150 and Police Taurus package. There are 4 videos on youtube
> with the WOT torture testing they did which is pretty impressive. I know
> that the pistons were different in the Turbo Buick as was a very long list
> of other components to make them live IE keep down warranty claims to an
> acceptable number.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Chicago, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> Source America First
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Turbocharging (Yes GMC related) [message #176892 is a reply to message #176879] |
Mon, 16 July 2012 07:55 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
How many were turbo charged 540 cubic inch Caddies?
Hell, you've got nearly a 100 cubic inches on a 455 Olds! They will produce a hell of a lot more power on their own let alone when
turbo charges.
Have you ever had that monster run on a dyno?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kanomata
John,
We have had few units come through our shop with turbo.
Our guys felt that they did not produce much power compared to mine.
I made sure we have the least restriction in the intake and exhaust.
I run 2 ea, 3" mandrel bent pipes that join into a 4" mandrel bent pipe.
Jim
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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