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| [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174051] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 11:39  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Good Morning
I've been talking off-line with Steve Southworth about an electrical problem I
had with my boat and by accident or luck I figured out the problem, he thought
it would be a good thing to share with the GMC group.
I have a 1990 Four Winns boat with a Ford 302 V8.
Two years ago I began having very erratic engine electrical problems:
1 - On hard acceleration out of the hole, total bog down, no power. Once the
boat planed and the demand for max power was reduced, boat ran good.
2 - When going down the lake full speed, I would hit the engine trim button to
raise or lower the stern drive, total engine stall like the trim motor was
using 100% of the electrical power.
I researched all of the online boat help sites & forums. Many people that
have the Ford 302 V-8 with the OMC out drive have experienced the exact same
problem as I had. No solutions posted, lots of ideas, but no dead solution. I
brought the boat in to a local automotive electrical shop owned by a friend,
they messed with it for a solid week, had no idea what was wrong. So for the
last 2 years we've boated, it's run like crap.
Two weeks ago, I decided to tackle this, at the same time I decided to give the
engine another tune up....points, condenser, cap, rotor, etc.
First thing I did was what most of the online forums recommended, check all
battery cables, ground cables, all wiring, etc., looking for corrosion. All
wiring looked perfect.
The next thing I did was do the tune up, put in the points and condenser. I
then hooked up the dwell meter to set the dwell, positive cable of meter to
coil, negative cable to the distributor. Meter didn't read a thing. I'm
thinking that it's been awhile since I've worked on these old style ignitions
and wondered if I had the meter hooked up right, tried it again, no reading.
I went and got a different meter, hooked it up, no reading. Now I was totally
confused.
Took a break for lunch.
Came back, try again, hook the meter up, positive lead to coil, negative lead
to engine carb bolt, meter worked perfect, I started to set the dwell and my
brain clicked.....WHY WOULDN'T THE METER WORK WHEN THE GROUND WAS CONNECTED UP
TO THE DISTRIBUTOR but it works when connected up to the carb ?? Tried it
again on the distributor, meter did not work. DANG, the light went on, 22 year
old boat, always moisture in engine compartment, corrosion ?? Then I
remembered when I installed Dick Paterson's Springfield Ignition in the GMC, he
supplied it with a separate ground wire connected to the distributor housing
and instructions said to connect that wire to a good engine ground. So I
drilled and taped the boats distributor housing, ran a wire from that to the
engine so I had a rock solid ground. Meter now worked when negative wire was
connected to the distributor. I set the dwell, set the timing and we hit the
water.
That boat ran better than it's run the last 5 years !!! Ultra power out of the
hole, no stalling when screaming down the lake when you hit the engine
trim.......all because of a poor distributor ground !!!
I later went to every online boating forum site and posted my findings !
Gotta luv it when ya stumble onto the dead nuts problem and it's a simple fix
!
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174076 is a reply to message #174051] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 15:37  |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Hey Ray!!!
I have an OMC 175 in my 1976 Apollo. Ford 302 ( I'm lost in the seventies I guess. ). I rebuilt it from a wreck that sank. Looks great behind the GMC!!!! In fact that is why I got my GMC.
The moisture in the engine compartment always "frosted" the face of the points over a two or three week storage. Had to clean them regularly and filed them every spring, then change them every couple years. I got sick and tired of changing points and condenser so often.
Pertonics makes a great conversion kit for that prestolite marine distributor that is easy to install and I never had to maintain ignition again. It always runs real strong too!!
It uses the same basic module that everyone is putting in their onans, and you know how they love them!!
Make the change over--- you will love it too
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174079 is a reply to message #174076] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 16:08 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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John, I actually bought the electronic conversion, then found out that with the
conversion, the ESM module which grounds the engine out during shifting wouldn't
work, too high of a risk to tear up the gear case so I sent it back and stayed
with the points, etc.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, June 20, 2012 3:37:33 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know
Hey Ray!!!
I have an OMC 175 in my 1976 Apollo. Ford 302 ( I'm lost in the seventies I
guess. ). I rebuilt it from a wreck that sank. Looks great behind the GMC!!!!
In fact that is why I got my GMC.
The moisture in the engine compartment always "frosted" the face of the points
over a two or three week storage. Had to clean them regularly and filed them
every spring, then change them every couple years. I got sick and tired of
changing points and condenser so often.
Pertonics makes a great conversion kit for that prestolite marine distributor
that is easy to install and I never had to maintain ignition again. It always
runs real strong too!!
It uses the same basic module that everyone is putting in their onans, and you
know how they love them!!
Make the change over--- you will love it too
Best regards
--
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
Retirement Projects Galore
Edmonton, Alberta
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174084 is a reply to message #174051] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 16:31 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Of course, mine was older and did not have that feature. Grounding the engine for moment to bring power down for the shift makes sense.
I have an electric magnet and spring shift in mine so the issues are not the same.
I'm working from memory now but I believe there was a work around for that issue. It may have included a relay to cut battery power to the Module rather than short it.
However: I can understand your concerns.
Glad things are working well now!!!
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
[Updated on: Wed, 20 June 2012 16:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174127 is a reply to message #174051] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 20:41 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ray Erspamer wrote on Wed, 20 June 2012 12:39 |
Good Morning
I've been talking off-line with Steve Southworth about an electrical problem I
had with my boat and by accident or luck I figured out the problem, he thought
it would be a good thing to share with the GMC group.
I have a 1990 Four Winns boat with a Ford 302 V8.
Two years ago I began having very erratic engine electrical problems:
1 - On hard acceleration out of the hole, total bog down, no power. Once the
boat planed and the demand for max power was reduced, boat ran good.
2 - When going down the lake full speed, I would hit the engine trim button to
raise or lower the stern drive, total engine stall like the trim motor was
using 100% of the electrical power.
I researched all of the online boat help sites & forums. Many people that
have the Ford 302 V-8 with the OMC out drive have experienced the exact same
problem as I had. No solutions posted, lots of ideas, but no dead solution. I
brought the boat in to a local automotive electrical shop owned by a friend,
they messed with it for a solid week, had no idea what was wrong. So for the
last 2 years we've boated, it's run like crap.
Two weeks ago, I decided to tackle this, at the same time I decided to give the
engine another tune up....points, condenser, cap, rotor, etc.
First thing I did was what most of the online forums recommended, check all
battery cables, ground cables, all wiring, etc., looking for corrosion. All
wiring looked perfect.
The next thing I did was do the tune up, put in the points and condenser. I
then hooked up the dwell meter to set the dwell, positive cable of meter to
coil, negative cable to the distributor. Meter didn't read a thing. I'm
thinking that it's been awhile since I've worked on these old style ignitions
and wondered if I had the meter hooked up right, tried it again, no reading.
I went and got a different meter, hooked it up, no reading. Now I was totally
confused.
Took a break for lunch.
Came back, try again, hook the meter up, positive lead to coil, negative lead
to engine carb bolt, meter worked perfect, I started to set the dwell and my
brain clicked.....WHY WOULDN'T THE METER WORK WHEN THE GROUND WAS CONNECTED UP
TO THE DISTRIBUTOR but it works when connected up to the carb ?? Tried it
again on the distributor, meter did not work. DANG, the light went on, 22 year
old boat, always moisture in engine compartment, corrosion ?? Then I
remembered when I installed Dick Paterson's Springfield Ignition in the GMC, he
supplied it with a separate ground wire connected to the distributor housing
and instructions said to connect that wire to a good engine ground. So I
drilled and taped the boats distributor housing, ran a wire from that to the
engine so I had a rock solid ground. Meter now worked when negative wire was
connected to the distributor. I set the dwell, set the timing and we hit the
water.
That boat ran better than it's run the last 5 years !!! Ultra power out of the
hole, no stalling when screaming down the lake when you hit the engine
trim.......all because of a poor distributor ground !!!
I later went to every online boating forum site and posted my findings !
Gotta luv it when ya stumble onto the dead nuts problem and it's a simple fix
!
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
_
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Ray,
I have a 1974 Century boat with a 302 Ford engine and have the same problem. It started last year and we have worked over everything we could think of and it still has the same problem as yours. Maybe this is our solution also. Thanks for the update on your boat.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174140 is a reply to message #174127] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 22:00 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Keep me posted Gene, hope you find the problem.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Gene Dotson <shawnee@charter.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, June 20, 2012 8:41:16 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know
Ray Erspamer wrote on Wed, 20 June 2012 12:39
> Good Morning
>
> I've been talking off-line with Steve Southworth about an electrical problem I
> had with my boat and by accident or luck I figured out the problem, he thought
> it would be a good thing to share with the GMC group.
>
> I have a 1990 Four Winns boat with a Ford 302 V8.
>
> Two years ago I began having very erratic engine electrical problems:
> 1 - On hard acceleration out of the hole, total bog down, no power. Once the
> boat planed and the demand for max power was reduced, boat ran good.
> 2 - When going down the lake full speed, I would hit the engine trim button to
>
> raise or lower the stern drive, total engine stall like the trim motor was
> using 100% of the electrical power.
>
> I researched all of the online boat help sites & forums. Many people that
> have the Ford 302 V-8 with the OMC out drive have experienced the exact same
> problem as I had. No solutions posted, lots of ideas, but no dead solution.
>I
>
> brought the boat in to a local automotive electrical shop owned by a friend,
> they messed with it for a solid week, had no idea what was wrong. So for the
> last 2 years we've boated, it's run like crap.
>
> Two weeks ago, I decided to tackle this, at the same time I decided to give
>the
>
> engine another tune up....points, condenser, cap, rotor, etc.
>
> First thing I did was what most of the online forums recommended, check all
> battery cables, ground cables, all wiring, etc., looking for corrosion. All
> wiring looked perfect.
>
> The next thing I did was do the tune up, put in the points and condenser. I
> then hooked up the dwell meter to set the dwell, positive cable of meter to
> coil, negative cable to the distributor. Meter didn't read a thing. I'm
> thinking that it's been awhile since I've worked on these old style ignitions
> and wondered if I had the meter hooked up right, tried it again, no reading.
>
> I went and got a different meter, hooked it up, no reading. Now I was totally
> confused.
>
> Took a break for lunch.
>
> Came back, try again, hook the meter up, positive lead to coil, negative lead
> to engine carb bolt, meter worked perfect, I started to set the dwell and my
> brain clicked.....WHY WOULDN'T THE METER WORK WHEN THE GROUND WAS CONNECTED
>UP
>
> TO THE DISTRIBUTOR but it works when connected up to the carb ?? Tried it
> again on the distributor, meter did not work. DANG, the light went on, 22
>year
>
> old boat, always moisture in engine compartment, corrosion ?? Then I
> remembered when I installed Dick Paterson's Springfield Ignition in the GMC,
>he
>
> supplied it with a separate ground wire connected to the distributor housing
> and instructions said to connect that wire to a good engine ground. So I
> drilled and taped the boats distributor housing, ran a wire from that to the
> engine so I had a rock solid ground. Meter now worked when negative wire was
> connected to the distributor. I set the dwell, set the timing and we hit the
> water.
>
> That boat ran better than it's run the last 5 years !!! Ultra power out of
>the
>
> hole, no stalling when screaming down the lake when you hit the engine
> trim.......all because of a poor distributor ground !!!
>
> I later went to every online boating forum site and posted my findings !
> Gotta luv it when ya stumble onto the dead nuts problem and it's a simple fix
> !
>
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
> _
Ray,
I have a 1974 Century boat with a 302 Ford engine and have the same problem. It
started last year and we have worked over everything we could think of and it
still has the same problem as yours. Maybe this is our solution also. Thanks
for the update on your boat.
--
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174145 is a reply to message #174142] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 22:43 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Today I was with my 15 yo grandson, Dennis, looking at the '68 Mustang he's
considering restoring -- it's been held for him since 1985 when his
namesake uncle was killed in another auto accident. He says it has a 302
-- is that the same engine? I'll have to remember the distributor
grounding problem. Sure looks tiny after all my recent fooling with the
Cad 500. :-)
If anyone knows anything about restoring the '68, let me know off-list.
It's pretty sad looking (RF fender & cowling COMPLETELY rust-covered), but
seems to be sound.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Byron Songer wrote:
> Jeepers. I wonder how old the 302 is. It worked well for Ford in a lot of
> vehicles for a lot of years...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174149 is a reply to message #174145] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 22:48 |
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Mustang club, Ken. They do exist. Online, too.
The 302 is the same. I had it in a 68 Montego. Later it was in the 82
Lincoln (downsized) with a 4 barrel instead of 2 barrel. My brother had a
64 Fairlane with the 302.
Byron
ATTENTION: This reply is in reference to what is provided belowŠ
>Today I was with my 15 yo grandson, Dennis, looking at the '68 Mustang
>he's
>considering restoring -- it's been held for him since 1985 when his
>namesake uncle was killed in another auto accident. He says it has a 302
>-- is that the same engine? I'll have to remember the distributor
>grounding problem. Sure looks tiny after all my recent fooling with the
>Cad 500. :-)
>
>If anyone knows anything about restoring the '68, let me know off-list.
> It's pretty sad looking (RF fender & cowling COMPLETELY rust-covered),
>but
>seems to be sound.
>
>Ken H.
>Americus, GA
>'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Byron Songer wrote:
>
>> Jeepers. I wonder how old the 302 is. It worked well for Ford in a lot
>>of
>> vehicles for a lot of years...
>_______________________________________________
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174151 is a reply to message #174149] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 23:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, I advised him to read the various Mustang Forums until he finds one
that he's most comfortable with & closest to what he needs to do, then join
it.
Since he really has no experience and his dad has little time to help,
we'll probably move it here and I'll help him get the engine running. It's
a stick shift so hopefully will need no more than a clutch to complete the
drive train. We'll go through the brakes. He'll have to do all the body
work on the fastback himself -- I won't/can't be of much help with that &
he sure can't afford to have much done.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:48 PM, Byron Songer wrote:
> Mustang club, Ken. They do exist. Online, too.
> ...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174153 is a reply to message #174051] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 00:30 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Ray:
Oh Yes: You have the OMC - Volvo Cobra. Here is the ESA Module shifter fix for the Pertronix ignition Upgrade.
It does not use a relay as I stated but uses a couple of diodes and resistors that are very easy to get.
Quote from This Web site Below: (A great read) Pertronix Also States the same.
http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/
Circuit Diagram
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p44568-diodefix.html
Quote:
Many Cobras were built with non-electronic ignitions, using conventional points. These ignitions work fine, but the points are subject to wear, so the boat needs re-timing or even new points every season. You can end this cycle of maintenance by installing an electronic igntion retrofit; this is a gadget that replaces the points in your distributor. You install a plastic ring with magnets over the distributor cam, and the gadget senses the magnets as the distributor rotates. The beauty of the system is there are no points to wear and go out of adjustment, and I suppose it's a little more tolerant of moisture.
OMC installed such "point-less" ignitions in the later Cobras (I've seen a '92 Cobra with factory electronic ignition). One option is to purchase this and mate it with your boat; in fact, OMC had a set of "kits" that included an electronic ignition gadget plus a new Electronic Shift Assist (ESA), all for the price of the ESA alone. I don't know if these are still available now that OMC is gone.
Another, cheaper option is to install the Pertronix Ignitor(tm). (See http://www.pertronix.com.) This is problematic, as the OMC ESA expects to see its sense line dragged down to zero volts every time the points "close," and the Pertronix gadget doesn't do that. Your engine will run fine, but the ESA won't see the pulses it expects, and it won't work, so shifting is stiff.
I telephoned Pertronix tech support (the phone number used to be on their website) and inquired. They said the OMC ESA was a known problem, and they mailed me a sheet with instructions for a simple circuit that would interface their gadget to the OMC ESA. Specifically, the circuit has two identical resistors, and two identical diodes, for a total of four parts.
I visited my local Radio Shack, bought the parts, plus a small plastic box, and built the circuit. I installed it with my Pertronix Ignitor(tm), and my ESA works fine with it.
The diagram that Pertronix sent me is here (100k). I grabbed this off their website some time back, and it subsequently disappeared. However, it had reappeared when I checked in early 2003 (look for "Ignitor," then "Support")
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174159 is a reply to message #174151] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 01:05 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I expect Dan Gregg has already contacted you off-net. He has a ’60’s Mustang and that community is alive and well. You can, I understand, build a brand new 1964.5 Mustang from parts if you so choose!
That is a great car to learn mechanics on. Lots of room and modern enough to get an understanding.
Same as any GMC - Fuel lines, brake lines, brakes and bearings. Make it safe, then make it go, then make it pretty.
I envy y’all with grandkids, but I’m patient. My daughter is only 17, so I’ll be happy to wait a good long time! Ken, it sounds like you’ve just created a memory that will last with those boys forever.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
On Jun 20, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Yeah, I advised him to read the various Mustang Forums until he finds one
> that he's most comfortable with & closest to what he needs to do, then join
> it.
>
> Since he really has no experience and his dad has little time to help,
> we'll probably move it here and I'll help him get the engine running. It's
> a stick shift so hopefully will need no more than a clutch to complete the
> drive train. We'll go through the brakes. He'll have to do all the body
> work on the fastback himself -- I won't/can't be of much help with that &
> he sure can't afford to have much done.
>
> Ken H.
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174162 is a reply to message #174142] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 02:49 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Byron Songer wrote on Wed, 20 June 2012 20:32 |
Jeepers. I wonder how old the 302 is. It worked well for Ford in a lot of
vehicles for a lot of years. ...
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It is the same basic motor used in various forms from 1962 to 2001. (40 years!) Displacements from 221 cuin up to the 351. Good motor... I had one in my 1965 Mustang, a 289.
Not a good towd for the GMC though. (GMC content)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174169 is a reply to message #174149] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 07:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I've had them in a LOT of vans, as well is its predecessor in a couple of earlier Mustangs. I >think< you'll fine the marine version fits a different distributor; and I <think> you'll find this is a problem ptreey much confined to the marine distributor. I've never seen it in a road vehicle.
Â
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Byron Songer <bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know
Mustang club, Ken. They do exist. Online, too.
The 302 is the same. I had it in a 68 Montego. Later it was in the 82
Lincoln (downsized) with a 4 barrel instead of 2 barrel. My brother had a
64 Fairlane with the 302.
Byron
ATTENTION: This reply is in reference to what is provided belowÅ
>Today I was with my 15 yo grandson, Dennis, looking at the '68 Mustang
>he's
>considering restoring -- it's been held for him since 1985 when his
>namesake uncle was killed in another auto accident. He says it has a 302
>-- is that the same engine? I'll have to remember the distributor
>grounding problem. Sure looks tiny after all my recent fooling with the
>Cad 500. :-)
>
>If anyone knows anything about restoring the '68, let me know off-list.
> It's pretty sad looking (RF fender & cowling COMPLETELY rust-covered),
>but
>seems to be sound.
>
>Ken H.
>Americus, GA
>'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>http://www.gmcwipersetc.com/
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Byron Songer wrote:
>
>> Jeepers. I wonder how old the 302 is. It worked well for Ford in a lot
>>of
>> vehicles for a lot of years...
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174171 is a reply to message #174166] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 07:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Tickle of memories. The 305CID Chev engine was to meet the Trans-Am 5 lier formula - 327 block with a 283 crankshaft - oversquare,, rev forever, nice engine. The 307 was done the reverse - 283 block with the longer stroke 327 carnkshaft. Nice smog motor, used in a lot of GM applications. GM made the 400CID smallblock. Ford engines were often different from different founderies. F'rinstance, Cleveland Foundry turned out a hotrod 351 which is very different from the Windsor built 351. I believe the earlier 221 - 260 engines differed somewhat internally from the 289 - 302 - 351 Windsor family, but perhaps some of the Ford folks here can enlighten us. My '66 Mustang got bested by a Plymouth, so I went and bought a Road Runner and have done Mopar performance ever since. Chrysler did the Ford trick with the 383, it appears with different bores and strokes since it was built as both a B and an RB engine. And if memory serves, one of them had
a positive deck height (piston came up slightly ABOVE the block deck). GM came to th 'corporate engine' party a little later, hence our 455s haven't been screwed about as much.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Tim Conway <mactac735@mac.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know
On Jun 21, 2012, at 3:49 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
> It is the same basic motor used in various forms from 1962 to 2001. (40 years!) Displacements from 221 cuin up to the 351. Good motor... I had one in my 1965 Mustang, a 289.
Similar evolution to the Chevy small block. 265 in 1955, 283 in '57, 327 in '62. Not sure when it went to 350. The Chevy 302 was a de-stroked 327 to make eligible for Trans Am racing series. I'd guess the Ford 302 was a de-stroked 351 for the same reason. I seem to remember up to a Chevy small block 400 but not whether it was factory or just enthusiasts that made it.
> Not a good towd for the GMC though. (GMC content)
Didn't JimB or Manny install a 350 in a GMC (content)?
Tim Conway
LI NY 78 PB
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174175 is a reply to message #174145] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 08:02 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Yup, same engine ken!
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, June 20, 2012 10:44:17 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know
Today I was with my 15 yo grandson, Dennis, looking at the '68 Mustang he's
considering restoring -- it's been held for him since 1985 when his
namesake uncle was killed in another auto accident. He says it has a 302
-- is that the same engine? I'll have to remember the distributor
grounding problem. Sure looks tiny after all my recent fooling with the
Cad 500. :-)
If anyone knows anything about restoring the '68, let me know off-list.
It's pretty sad looking (RF fender & cowling COMPLETELY rust-covered), but
seems to be sound.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Byron Songer wrote:
> Jeepers. I wonder how old the 302 is. It worked well for Ford in a lot of
> vehicles for a lot of years...
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know [message #174176 is a reply to message #174162] |
Thu, 21 June 2012 08:04 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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The engine in a car may not have the same corrosion problem as in a boat where
there is nearly constant moisture. Plus, I don't think this occurs with every
boat that has the 302, but I did find about a dozen boat owners with posting of
a similar problem.
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, June 21, 2012 2:49:55 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non-GMC but a good thing to know
Byron Songer wrote on Wed, 20 June 2012 20:32
> Jeepers. I wonder how old the 302 is. It worked well for Ford in a lot of
> vehicles for a lot of years. ...
It is the same basic motor used in various forms from 1962 to 2001. (40 years!)
Displacements from 221 cuin up to the 351. Good motor... I had one in my 1965
Mustang, a 289.
Not a good towd for the GMC though. (GMC content)
--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23'
Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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