Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
| Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173600] |
Sat, 16 June 2012 22:12  |
Pryzl1
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2011
Location: Toledo, OH
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My '76 Eleganza ladder is in good shape-just needs a major cleaning. Looking for suggestions / recommendation for products and or techniques to restore a sorely neglected part of the coach.
John
1976 GMC Eleganza II - "The Never Ending Story"
Partial Restoration - a work in progress
455cc
NW Ohio
Member of the GMCMI, GMC Great Lakers Motorhome Club, GMCES and Dixielanders
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| Re: Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173601 is a reply to message #173600] |
Sat, 16 June 2012 22:18  |
Mitch
Messages: 272
Registered: May 2009
Location: Tacoma, Wa
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I've had good results on chrome and aluminum with good old Brasso.
| Pryzl1 wrote on Sat, 16 June 2012 20:12 |
My '76 Eleganza ladder is in good shape-just needs a major cleaning. Looking for suggestions / recommendation for products and or techniques to restore a sorely neglected part of the coach.
|
Mitch
Tacoma, Wa.
'80 Spitfire
'03 Windstar
'77 Jaguar XJ6-C
X(very)'76 PB 26 "The Beast"
Where it rains, always.
It's wet, No sun, Gray.
Go to Oregon.
[Updated on: Sat, 16 June 2012 22:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173827 is a reply to message #173617] |
Mon, 18 June 2012 19:41 |
Pryzl1
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2011
Location: Toledo, OH
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Rob,
I posted a link to the ladder pics on the GMCMH photos site. I believe the rails could just use a good cleaning. The steps might be heavily oxidized and appear to require a more rigorous process /cleaner than the rails.
John
1976 GMC Eleganza II - "The Never Ending Story"
Partial Restoration - a work in progress
455cc
NW Ohio
Member of the GMCMI, GMC Great Lakers Motorhome Club, GMCES and Dixielanders
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173862 is a reply to message #173860] |
Mon, 18 June 2012 22:50 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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There are a few acid based products that will work.
I would suggest that you go to the hardware store and look for a product called Naval Jelly. It's an acid based product, you need an acid to remove oxide from metal. It's in a jelly form so it can be used on vertical surfaces. Be sure to wear rubber gloves because the acid is very nasty. And when you wash it off, use LOTS of water because traces will result in new corrosion. Dry the aluminum and then use a very fine cream abrasive. Do not use sandpaper. MOTHERS aluminum polish is a good choice. If the oxide is not very heavy (more like a fine haze), then you can skip the Jelly step. Buy your self a lot of white shop rags because the cream will turn black as it removes a fine layer of aluminum. With a lot of buffing and elbow grease, you can restore aluminum to a mirror finish.
Emery
On Jun 18, 2012, at 9:45 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> John,
>
> There is a chemical that you can brush onto the cast aluminum parts that will remove the oxidation, however, damned if I can
> remember what it is at the moment.
>
> You might have to protect the tubes as I reckon they're anodized; which is why they haven't oxidized.
>
> EMERY - HELP!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Pryzbylek
>
> Rob,
> I posted a link to the ladder pics on the GMCMH photos site. I believe the rails could just use a good cleaning. The steps might
> be heavily oxidized and appear to require a more rigorous process /cleaner than
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173874 is a reply to message #173862] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 00:58 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Emery,
That's it!
Should the tubing be protected so the Naval Jelly (I always laugh when I hear that name) doesn't attack the anodizing?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora
There are a few acid based products that will work.
I would suggest that you go to the hardware store and look for a product called Naval Jelly. It's an acid based product, you need an
acid to remove oxide from metal. It's in a jelly form so it can be used on vertical surfaces. Be sure to wear rubber gloves because
the acid is very nasty. And when you wash it off, use LOTS of water because traces will result in new corrosion. Dry the aluminum
and then use a very fine cream abrasive. Do not use sandpaper. MOTHERS aluminum polish is a good choice. If the oxide is not very
heavy (more like a fine haze), then you can skip the Jelly step. Buy your self a lot of white shop rags because the cream will turn
black as it removes a fine layer of aluminum. With a lot of buffing and elbow grease, you can restore aluminum to a mirror finish.
Emery
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173895 is a reply to message #173874] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 06:32 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Anodizing: Aluminum is immersed in a tank containing an electrolyte having a 15% sulfuric acid concentration. Electric current is passed through the electrolyte and the aluminum is made the anode in this electrolytic cell; the tank is the cathode. Voltage applied across the anode and cathode causes negatively charged anions to migrate to the anode where the oxygen in the anions combines with the aluminum to form aluminum oxide (Al2O3).
This gives a hard, almost ceramic like coating which is very resistant to the elements. As you point out, though, it can be stained by strong cleaners such as Naval Jelly so it would be best to tape off the tubes before applying the jelly to the steps.
Emery Stora
Emery
On Jun 18, 2012, at 11:58 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Emery,
>
> That's it!
>
> Should the tubing be protected so the Naval Jelly (I always laugh when I hear that name) doesn't attack the anodizing?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emery Stora
>
> There are a few acid based products that will work.
>
> I would suggest that you go to the hardware store and look for a product called Naval Jelly. It's an acid based product, you need an
> acid to remove oxide from metal. It's in a jelly form so it can be used on vertical surfaces. Be sure to wear rubber gloves because
> the acid is very nasty. And when you wash it off, use LOTS of water because traces will result in new corrosion. Dry the aluminum
> and then use a very fine cream abrasive. Do not use sandpaper. MOTHERS aluminum polish is a good choice. If the oxide is not very
> heavy (more like a fine haze), then you can skip the Jelly step. Buy your self a lot of white shop rags because the cream will turn
> black as it removes a fine layer of aluminum. With a lot of buffing and elbow grease, you can restore aluminum to a mirror finish.
>
> Emery
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173905 is a reply to message #173895] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 07:28 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Perhaps I am misinformed, but I had always thought that
THE use for "Naval Jelly" was to neutralize and stabilize
rusted ferrous metal products.
I'm not sure what the problem is with the ladder, but
some previous owner of "The Money Pit (Pig)" painted
the ladder and roof rails to match color stripes on the
coach. Paint is coming off in places and looks a bit on
the ugly side. Maybe someday I'll take it down to bare
metal, but that is hardly a current priority.
Contrary to Emery's advise against using sandpaper, I
would probably try a very fine wet/dry sandpaper to get
the paint gone since the aluminum probably did not get
a proper preparation before it was painted and is already
flaking off. Brass wool will likely do a good job cleaning
up any small paint remnants and shallow scratches. Then I
will just let the atmosphere do its job in re-oxidizing the
aluminum. The oxidation of aluminum is self-limiting and is
really stable and quite hard. It isn't shiny, but won't get
worse past initial oxidation and it will be quite uniform
in appearance.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: emerystora@mac.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:32:30 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
>
> Anodizing: Aluminum is immersed in a tank containing an electrolyte having a 15% sulfuric acid concentration. Electric current is passed through the electrolyte and the aluminum is made the anode in this electrolytic cell; the tank is the cathode. Voltage applied across the anode and cathode causes negatively charged anions to migrate to the anode where the oxygen in the anions combines with the aluminum to form aluminum oxide (Al2O3).
>
> This gives a hard, almost ceramic like coating which is very resistant to the elements. As you point out, though, it can be stained by strong cleaners such as Naval Jelly so it would be best to tape off the tubes before applying the jelly to the steps.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>
> Emery
>
> On Jun 18, 2012, at 11:58 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> > Emery,
> >
> > That's it!
> >
> > Should the tubing be protected so the Naval Jelly (I always laugh when I hear that name) doesn't attack the anodizing?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Emery Stora
> >
> > There are a few acid based products that will work.
> >
> > I would suggest that you go to the hardware store and look for a product called Naval Jelly. It's an acid based product, you need an
> > acid to remove oxide from metal. It's in a jelly form so it can be used on vertical surfaces. Be sure to wear rubber gloves because
> > the acid is very nasty. And when you wash it off, use LOTS of water because traces will result in new corrosion. Dry the aluminum
> > and then use a very fine cream abrasive. Do not use sandpaper. MOTHERS aluminum polish is a good choice. If the oxide is not very
> > heavy (more like a fine haze), then you can skip the Jelly step. Buy your self a lot of white shop rags because the cream will turn
> > black as it removes a fine layer of aluminum. With a lot of buffing and elbow grease, you can restore aluminum to a mirror finish.
> >
> > Emery
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173907 is a reply to message #173862] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 07:58 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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We used to use a weak phosphoric acid solution to clean and etch airplane skins before painting. As Emory sez, LOTS of water thereafter. Our standard was two guys four hours with hoses flooding the exterior of the airplane after etching.
If you like shiny, SimiChrome polish works well - should be available at any motorcycle dealer.
--johnny
'76 transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
There are a few acid based products that will work.
I would suggest that you go to the hardware store and look for a product called Naval Jelly. It's an acid based product, you need an acid to remove oxide from metal. It's in a jelly form so it can be used on vertical surfaces. Be sure to wear rubber gloves because the acid is very nasty. And when you wash it off, use LOTS of water because traces will result in new corrosion. Dry the aluminum and then use a very fine cream abrasive. Do not use sandpaper. MOTHERS aluminum polish is a good choice. If the oxide is not very heavy (more like a fine haze), then you can skip the Jelly step. Buy your self a lot of white shop rags because the cream will turn black as it removes a fine layer of aluminum. With a lot of buffing and elbow grease, you can restore aluminum to a mirror finish.
Emery
On Jun 18, 2012, at 9:45 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> John,
>
> There is a chemical that you can brush onto the cast aluminum parts that will remove the oxidation, however, damned if I can
> remember what it is at the moment.
>
> You might have to protect the tubes as I reckon they're anodized; which is why they haven't oxidized.
>
> EMERY - HELP!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Pryzbylek
>
> Rob,
> I posted a link to the ladder pics on the GMCMH photos site. I believe the rails could just use a good cleaning. The steps might
> be heavily oxidized and appear to require a more rigorous process /cleaner than
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173913 is a reply to message #173907] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 08:38 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I was also going to mention SimiChrome, but I have only
ever seen it in a small tube, perhaps an ounce or less.
The stuff is made in Germany, IIRC. It works wonders on
the small bits, but doing a ladder and/or roof rails
would be a stupendous task, to say the least!
Might be worth looking into for polishing your Alocas!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:58:10 -0700
> From: jhbridges@ymail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
>
> We used to use a weak phosphoric acid solution to clean and etch airplane skins before painting. As Emory sez, LOTS of water thereafter. Our standard was two guys four hours with hoses flooding the exterior of the airplane after etching.
> If you like shiny, SimiChrome polish works well - should be available at any motorcycle dealer.
>
> --johnny
> '76 transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173935 is a reply to message #173913] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 10:17 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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You used to could get it in half pint (quarter liter??) cans. In 1969. I'd try it with a small buffing wheel to sabve on elbow grease. (Of coruse, I left my laddwer kinda oxide looking for ease of maintenance!)
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
I was also going to mention SimiChrome, but I have only
ever seen it in a small tube, perhaps an ounce or less.
The stuff is made in Germany, IIRC. It works wonders on
the small bits, but doing a ladder and/or roof rails
would be a stupendous task, to say the least!
Might be worth looking into for polishing your Alocas!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:58:10 -0700
> From: jhbridges@ymail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
>
> We used to use a weak phosphoric acid solution to clean and etch airplane skins before painting. As Emory sez, LOTS of water thereafter. Our standard was two guys four hours with hoses flooding the exterior of the airplane after etching.
> If you like shiny, SimiChrome polish works well - should be available at any motorcycle dealer.
>
> --johnny
> '76 transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173936 is a reply to message #173919] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 10:24 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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We need somebody to do a ring-ding engine for the GMC. Direct trade between fuel and noise/power until you overdo it and melt the thing into a lump or hole a piston.
Well, now I think on it, older Detroit Diesel engines are two stroke..... maybe a 6-71 laid over about 30 degrees.... I wonder if the current THM would accept a chain drive and adapt to the GMC/Olds mounts and bellhousing. Then you could have the ratios and shift points set up properly for a Diesel engine. And, you could probably get 8 - 10 MPG out of it.
--johnny
'76 23' trandmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
Johnny,
This brings back fond memories of fifty years ago when I used Happisch SimiChrome to polish the Tecumseh 100cc chain saw engine on
my Go-Kart 800 (not sure about the numbers). ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Bridges
We used to use a weak phosphoric acid solution to clean and etch airplane skins before painting. As Emory sez, LOTS of water
thereafter. Our standard was two guys four hours with hoses flooding the exterior of the airplane after etching.
If you like shiny, SimiChrome polish works well - should be available at any motorcycle dealer.
--johnny
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173942 is a reply to message #173936] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 11:05 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Johnny, might be easier to do a v-8 as it is not as tall. The silver 92 in my KW is rated 540 hp at 2400 rpm with 1400 ft lb torque at 1300 rpm. With a little turn of a screw it will turn about 3200 rpm and will pass anything except a fuel stop.
[quote title=Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 19 June 2012 11:24]We need somebody to do a ring-ding engine for the GMC. Direct trade between fuel and noise/power until you overdo it and melt the thing into a lump or hole a piston.
Well, now I think on it, older Detroit Diesel engines are two stroke..... maybe a 6-71 laid over about 30 degrees.... I wonder if the current THM would accept a chain drive and adapt to the GMC/Olds mounts and bellhousing. Then you could have the ratios and shift points set up properly for a Diesel engine. And, you could probably get 8 - 10 MPG out of it.
--johnny
'76 23' trandmode norris
'76 palm beach
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173944 is a reply to message #173942] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 12:20 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If I were doing a V8 (I'm not, merely speculating) I would lean towards a Cat 3208. The yellow ones run better. And that's closer to the size we need - a 540hp diesel is overkill. I figure it might do 10-12 MPG diesel, which is the same economically as 8 - 10MPG. I'll defer to Manny, but I don't think a THM425 will survive behind 1400 ft lbs off idle. You'd need an Allison 6 speed at that point.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Charles Boyd <covered-wagon@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder
Johnny, might be easier to do a v-8 as it is not as tall. The silver 92 in my KW is rated 540 hp at 2400 rpm with 1400 ft lb torque at 1300 rpm. With a little turn of a screw it will turn about 3200 rpm and will pass anything except a fuel stop.
[quote title=Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 19 June 2012 11:24]We need somebody to do a ring-ding engine for the GMC. Direct trade between fuel and noise/power until you overdo it and melt the thing into a lump or hole a piston.
Well, now I think on it, older Detroit Diesel engines are two stroke..... maybe a 6-71 laid over about 30 degrees.... I wonder if the current THM would accept a chain drive and adapt to the GMC/Olds mounts and bellhousing. Then you could have the ratios and shift points set up properly for a Diesel engine. And, you could probably get 8 - 10 MPG out of it.
--johnny
'76 23' trandmode norris
'76 palm beach
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cleaning Aluminum Ladder [message #173952 is a reply to message #173944] |
Tue, 19 June 2012 13:20 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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The allsion 6 sp is an od and it don`t like it very long, bout 2 years and they start acting up. I have the 5 sp allison 754crd with lock up torque converter. Counting rebuilds this is the 7th engine in over 1 million miles and only third transmission.
[quote title=Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 19 June 2012 13:20]If I were doing a V8 (I'm not, merely speculating) I would lean towards a Cat 3208. The yellow ones run better. And that's closer to the size we need - a 540hp diesel is overkill. I figure it might do 10-12 MPG diesel, which is the same economically as 8 - 10MPG. I'll defer to Manny, but I don't think a THM425 will survive behind 1400 ft lbs off idle. You'd need an Allison 6 speed at that point.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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