Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Coachman rear battery charging...
| Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169569] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 15:50  |
Mark of Excellence
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2010
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Junior Member |
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For those of you Coachman owners I was wondering how the rear battery that was installed by Coachman for the generator is kept charged? I have three in my Birchaven, one starting and house battery under the hood. And one starting in the rear in a plastic battery box next to the Onan.
I am sure is gets charged when running the generator but what about when running just the engine alternator or plugging the coach into house power assuming my wiring is all still factory?
Benson
76' Birchaven
Florida
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| Re: Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169577 is a reply to message #169569] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 17:30  |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Mark of Excellence wrote on Mon, 14 May 2012 13:50 |
For those of you Coachman owners I was wondering how the rear battery that was installed by Coachman for the generator is kept charged? I have three in my Birchaven, one starting and house battery under the hood. And one starting in the rear in a plastic battery box next to the Onan.
I am sure is gets charged when running the generator but what about when running just the engine alternator or plugging the coach into house power assuming my wiring is all still factory?
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I am fairly sure the Birches were wired differently than the other coaches including the Coachman Royales. The Royales had the rear battery hard wired, though a large cable, in parallel with the house battery up-front. That "works" (just not very well) when both batteries are alike, but has serious issues with batteries of different types/sizes. So I do not expect EVEN Coachman to hard wire different type batteries together.
I have only looked at one early Birch with a generator starting battery. At the time, I had just started learning about Coachman products. It had a different generator and I thought it was part of the generator swap, so I did not look at how it was wired.
The later Birches do not have the separate generator battery and start the Onan through a long cable from the front mounted "house" battery. As the Onan doesn't pull that many amps, even when starting, it works very well. It might be a solution to anyone having battery issues on an early Birch. (It will also give you back some storage space.)
_IF_ the early Birches (76) were wired like the early GM coaches (73/74), the only charging for the generator battery would be the fly-wheel alternator/voltage regulator on the Onan. This set-up only works if you use the generator often. That is one reason GM changed the set-up for the 1975 model year. It MIGHT also be why Coachman got rid of the 3rd battery also.
On my 26 foot 1973 ex-Painted Desert, it has the separate generator battery. I always had problems with that battery needing replacement but I liked having a third small battery "in reserve" just to start the Onan. I added a second combiner between the house bank and the generator battery. (It was cheaper than a heavy cable.) Seems to work well now.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169589 is a reply to message #169577] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 18:14 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The Coachmen wiring diagram for the '77 Birchaven shows the "Auxiliary
Battery" as wired directly in parallel with the front house battery; the
26' is the same but with slightly different routing.
Even before I gutted it, my '76 Birchaven showed no sign of having had a
3rd battery, so it may have been an option.
IMHO, an "Onan battery" is as superfluous as "...on a boar hog". When it
quits, just remove it and its wiring and let the regular house battery take
over. The diagram shows a 2 g. wire from the house battery to the
generator and only 8 g. from the "Aux."; so, with checking resistances, I
suspect the forward battery contributes about as much Onan starting current
as the "Onan" battery.
JWID,
Ken H.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mark of Excellence wrote on Mon, 14 May 2012 13:50
> > For those of you Coachman owners I was wondering how the rear battery
> that was installed by Coachman for the generator is kept charged? I have
> three in my Birchaven, one starting and house battery under the hood. And
> one starting in the rear in a plastic battery box next to the Onan.
> >
> > I am sure is gets charged when running the generator but what about when
> running just the engine alternator or plugging the coach into house power
> assuming my wiring is all still factory?
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169598 is a reply to message #169570] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 18:26 |
Mark of Excellence
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Mike,
I am not exactly sure how my Birch is wired up in the back but I am pretty sure it is the way it was built. I think I can start my Onan up from either the rear or front batteries. There is a battery disconnect switch in the rear to kill the rear battery and I was able to crank the generator over with that switch in off position. The only heavy power wire headed back to the generator is the one that comes off of that firewall 50 amp CB powered by the house side battery.
I put a new starting battery in the back but the firewall CB is still powered by the house battery headed to the rear. I hope by mixing battery types I did not create a problem?
If the only way the rear battery is charged is from the Onan, I can see that going dead all the time.
Benson
76' Birchaven
Florida
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169605 is a reply to message #169589] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 18:37 |
Mark of Excellence
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2010
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Thanks for pointing that out Ken. I just found that diagram after you mentioned it. So if the rear battery is wired in parallel with the front house battery should they both be deep cycle? Now knowing how the Coachman factory wired them, will the engine alternator or shore power charge the rear battery as well?
Benson
76' Birchaven
Florida
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169609 is a reply to message #169598] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 18:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The '77 Coachmen diagram I referred to shows no charge connection from the
Onan to the rear (nor any other) battery, so I suspect they'd already
abandoned the Onan 8 A charger like everyone else.
The only reason I can imagine for the rear battery is that the Onan may
have been hard to start at times with the long run from up front -- I know
mine could be, before the Pertronix mod eliminated that problem for me.
Now that you've replaced the Onan battery, you might as well continue to
use it, unless you have a lawn mower or something that needs it. But I
wouldn't bother replacing it when it dies. The disconnect may have been
PO's way of providing protection for the long wire run to the 50A breaker
up front; there is no protection shown on the diagram for the run from rear
to front -- the 50A was for protection from front to rear.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Benson wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I am not exactly sure how my Birch is wired up in the back but I am pretty
> sure it is the way it was built. I think I can start my Onan up from
> either the rear or front batteries. There is a battery disconnect switch in
> the rear to kill the rear battery and I was able to crank the generator
> over with that switch in off position. The only heavy power wire headed
> back to the generator is the one that comes off of that firewall 50 amp CB
> powered by the house side battery.
>
> I put a new starting battery in the back but the firewall CB is still
> powered by the house battery headed to the rear. I hope by mixing battery
> types I did not create a problem?
>
> If the only way the rear battery is charged is from the Onan, I can see
> that going dead all the time.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169612 is a reply to message #169605] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 18:55 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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If they're going to be in parallel, they should both be of the same type.
To put a finer point on it, they "should" be the same size; and,
preferably, the same production run. Plus a lot of other "shoulds", like
same size wires of equal run lengths, etc., etc. All totally impractical
and unnecessary for you to attempt. Frankly, because of the unprotected
rear to front run, I'd just remove that new rear battery and its connecting
cable and quit worrying about it.
While its in there, and the added cut-off switch closed, the rear battery
will be treated exactly like the front house battery -- fed by the
converter or the alternator (via the isolator).
By the way, I sort of automatically discounted the wiring shown for the
"Aux" battery: it's shown as connected to the same side of the 50A breaker
as the isolator. That makes no sense at all to me (running an 8 g. wire
all the way from the front to that location, just to feed back through the
2 g. wire to the generator). I'd lay dollars to donuts the rear battery is
connected to the generator, or something nearby, rather than running all
the way to the front. Just sloppy schematic drawing, IMHO.
HTH,
Ken H.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Benson wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for pointing that out Ken. I just found that diagram after you
> mentioned it. So if the rear battery is wired in parallel with the front
> house battery should they both be deep cycle? Now knowing how the Coachman
> factory wired them, will the engine alternator or shore power charge the
> rear battery as well?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169737 is a reply to message #169612] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 10:15 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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The rear "generator" battery in my 77 Royale is also the house battery. All
of the 12v house loads are run off of it. The buzz box was replaced by the
po with a Charles Marine Group marine electronic battery charger (30amp).
According to the manual I downloaded, this charger will charge and
"maintain" up to three banks of batteries. I have room in the engine bay
for two batteries and had planned on having the engine battery and an
additional house battery there with a deep cycle battery in the generator
compartment serving to start the generator and run the house but after
reading these posts, wonder about my mish mash battery collection. I assume
that I will need a separate charge lead for each battery in order for the
charger to properly maintain each but is mixing of the deep cycle and
standard engine battery(supplemental house battery connected when needed
with a yet to be installed selector switch) a bad plan?
Sully
77 Royale
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> If they're going to be in parallel, they should both be of the same type.
> To put a finer point on it, they "should" be the same size; and,
> preferably, the same production run. Plus a lot of other "shoulds", like
> same size wires of equal run lengths, etc., etc. All totally impractical
> and unnecessary for you to attempt. Frankly, because of the unprotected
> rear to front run, I'd just remove that new rear battery and its connecting
> cable and quit worrying about it.
>
> While its in there, and the added cut-off switch closed, the rear battery
> will be treated exactly like the front house battery -- fed by the
> converter or the alternator (via the isolator).
>
> By the way, I sort of automatically discounted the wiring shown for the
> "Aux" battery: it's shown as connected to the same side of the 50A breaker
> as the isolator. That makes no sense at all to me (running an 8 g. wire
> all the way from the front to that location, just to feed back through the
> 2 g. wire to the generator). I'd lay dollars to donuts the rear battery is
> connected to the generator, or something nearby, rather than running all
> the way to the front. Just sloppy schematic drawing, IMHO.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Benson wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks for pointing that out Ken. I just found that diagram after you
> > mentioned it. So if the rear battery is wired in parallel with the front
> > house battery should they both be deep cycle? Now knowing how the
> Coachman
> > factory wired them, will the engine alternator or shore power charge the
> > rear battery as well?
> > --
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169738 is a reply to message #169737] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 10:21 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Forgot to include the model number of the charger. 93-12302E-A
Sully
77 Royale
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
> The rear "generator" battery in my 77 Royale is also the house battery.
> All of the 12v house loads are run off of it. The buzz box was replaced by
> the po with a Charles Marine Group marine electronic battery charger
> (30amp). According to the manual I downloaded, this charger will charge and
> "maintain" up to three banks of batteries. I have room in the engine bay
> for two batteries and had planned on having the engine battery and an
> additional house battery there with a deep cycle battery in the generator
> compartment serving to start the generator and run the house but after
> reading these posts, wonder about my mish mash battery collection. I assume
> that I will need a separate charge lead for each battery in order for the
> charger to properly maintain each but is mixing of the deep cycle and
> standard engine battery(supplemental house battery connected when needed
> with a yet to be installed selector switch) a bad plan?
>
> Sully
> 77 Royale
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> If they're going to be in parallel, they should both be of the same type.
>> To put a finer point on it, they "should" be the same size; and,
>> preferably, the same production run. Plus a lot of other "shoulds", like
>> same size wires of equal run lengths, etc., etc. All totally impractical
>> and unnecessary for you to attempt. Frankly, because of the unprotected
>> rear to front run, I'd just remove that new rear battery and its
>> connecting
>> cable and quit worrying about it.
>>
>> While its in there, and the added cut-off switch closed, the rear battery
>> will be treated exactly like the front house battery -- fed by the
>> converter or the alternator (via the isolator).
>>
>> By the way, I sort of automatically discounted the wiring shown for the
>> "Aux" battery: it's shown as connected to the same side of the 50A
>> breaker
>> as the isolator. That makes no sense at all to me (running an 8 g. wire
>> all the way from the front to that location, just to feed back through the
>> 2 g. wire to the generator). I'd lay dollars to donuts the rear battery
>> is
>> connected to the generator, or something nearby, rather than running all
>> the way to the front. Just sloppy schematic drawing, IMHO.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Benson wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for pointing that out Ken. I just found that diagram after you
>> > mentioned it. So if the rear battery is wired in parallel with the
>> front
>> > house battery should they both be deep cycle? Now knowing how the
>> Coachman
>> > factory wired them, will the engine alternator or shore power charge the
>> > rear battery as well?
>> > --
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging... [message #169744 is a reply to message #169738] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 11:13 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Todd;
Before I changed out to the two 850 Ah Gel-Cell I ran four 6 Volt Trojans
Golf Cart two in front with two in the rear next to the generator.
Using a modern battery charge.
Never had a problem with the setup for over five years.
I change to the Gel-Cell and I only have the engine starting battery in the
front.
Getting out the two in front is not happing as I cant lift them in and out.
I have a bad right shoulder.
I plan on installing a small tool box in place of the two batteries I had in
front.
Thanks
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Sullivan" <sgltrac@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 08:21
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Coachman rear battery charging...
> Forgot to include the model number of the charger. 93-12302E-A
>
> Sully
> 77 Royale
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The rear "generator" battery in my 77 Royale is also the house battery.
>> All of the 12v house loads are run off of it. The buzz box was replaced
>> by
>> the po with a Charles Marine Group marine electronic battery charger
>> (30amp). According to the manual I downloaded, this charger will charge
>> and
>> "maintain" up to three banks of batteries. I have room in the engine bay
>> for two batteries and had planned on having the engine battery and an
>> additional house battery there with a deep cycle battery in the generator
>> compartment serving to start the generator and run the house but after
>> reading these posts, wonder about my mish mash battery collection. I
>> assume
>> that I will need a separate charge lead for each battery in order for the
>> charger to properly maintain each but is mixing of the deep cycle and
>> standard engine battery(supplemental house battery connected when needed
>> with a yet to be installed selector switch) a bad plan?
>>
>> Sully
>> 77 Royale
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Ken Henderson
>> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>
>>> If they're going to be in parallel, they should both be of the same
>>> type.
>>> To put a finer point on it, they "should" be the same size; and,
>>> preferably, the same production run. Plus a lot of other "shoulds",
>>> like
>>> same size wires of equal run lengths, etc., etc. All totally
>>> impractical
>>> and unnecessary for you to attempt. Frankly, because of the unprotected
>>> rear to front run, I'd just remove that new rear battery and its
>>> connecting
>>> cable and quit worrying about it.
>>>
>>> While its in there, and the added cut-off switch closed, the rear
>>> battery
>>> will be treated exactly like the front house battery -- fed by the
>>> converter or the alternator (via the isolator).
>>>
>>> By the way, I sort of automatically discounted the wiring shown for the
>>> "Aux" battery: it's shown as connected to the same side of the 50A
>>> breaker
>>> as the isolator. That makes no sense at all to me (running an 8 g. wire
>>> all the way from the front to that location, just to feed back through
>>> the
>>> 2 g. wire to the generator). I'd lay dollars to donuts the rear battery
>>> is
>>> connected to the generator, or something nearby, rather than running all
>>> the way to the front. Just sloppy schematic drawing, IMHO.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Benson wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for pointing that out Ken. I just found that diagram after you
>>> > mentioned it. So if the rear battery is wired in parallel with the
>>> front
>>> > house battery should they both be deep cycle? Now knowing how the
>>> Coachman
>>> > factory wired them, will the engine alternator or shore power charge
>>> > the
>>> > rear battery as well?
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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All is well with my Lord
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