Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » no need to vac with Duracool?
| no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169147] |
Thu, 10 May 2012 14:24  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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This link here: http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html talks about Duracool and says there is no need to pull a vacuum.
I know very little about AC. I thought we use a vacuum to remove moisture that would freeze in the sytstem.
In my case, the AC compressor was replaced in my truck (01 Expedition) over the winter.
I'm going to put duracool in it instead of R134. I have a freind with AC tools but if i don't need to vac it out I will just charge it myself.
Am i missing something?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169159 is a reply to message #169158] |
Thu, 10 May 2012 15:17  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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THanks. I kinda' figured the moisture had to be dealt with.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169274 is a reply to message #169147] |
Fri, 11 May 2012 15:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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If the system has been open to the outside air, then vacuum it before adding any R-12, R-134, or Duracool.
When I open one up I immediately tape over the open connections to minimize the amount of moisture migration from the outside air into the system.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169338 is a reply to message #169147] |
Sat, 12 May 2012 09:29 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Refrigeration is plumbing. Rule one in plumbing is "shit flows downhill" (pardon). If the system still has postive pressure AND no moisture, then you are OK. However, how do you know if there is moisture from sloppy PO maint in the past? IE not bleeding hose set properly? recharging on a flat system with no vac pulled? If there is little old refrigerant in there I would start from scratch and then you can add a known ammount and be moisture free.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169343 is a reply to message #169338] |
Sat, 12 May 2012 10:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I'd leave the pump on it overnight, to scavenge the dehydrator / dryer.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 pam beach
From: John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool?
Refrigeration is plumbing. Rule one in plumbing is "shit flows downhill" (pardon). If the system still has postive pressure AND no moisture, then you are OK. However, how do you know if there is moisture from sloppy PO maint in the past? IE not bleeding hose set properly? recharging on a flat system with no vac pulled? If there is little old refrigerant in there I would start from scratch and then you can add a known ammount and be moisture free.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Source America First
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169383 is a reply to message #169343] |
Sat, 12 May 2012 20:08 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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leaving the pump on overnight is not really an option, and don't I want to just replace the dryer?
Several people have told me that but i am a little puzzled- it's just a canister full of desiccant.
So the old compressor was disconnected and a new one was put in. The lines were open for less than 20 minutes. Would the ambient moisture overwhelm the dryer?
I'm just trying to understand.
thanks
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169387 is a reply to message #169383] |
Sat, 12 May 2012 21:20 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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[quote title=hertfordnc wrote on Sat, 12 May 2012 18:08]leaving the pump on overnight is not really an option, and don't I want to just replace the dryer?
Several people have told me that but i am a little puzzled- it's just a canister full of desiccant.
So the old compressor was disconnected and a new one was put in. The lines were open for less than 20 minutes. Would the ambient moisture overwhelm the dryer?
I'm just trying to understand.
thanks
If the system were open for 20 minutes you don't need to replace the dryer. I still have the original dryer in mine and it is still OK. I have replaced three compressors at various times fixed a couple of leaks and changed the compressor hoses. So the system has been open a number of times.Each time I would like to have replaced the dryer but I didn't have one so I reused the old one. It is always a good idea to evacuate with a vacuum pump but in a pinch you can usually purge the system with refrigerant if it hasn't been open long. To purge it you would pressurize the system to about 15 lbs and release the pressure. Do it 3 times to be sure all the air is out of the system. You could use R12,R22,R500,duracool but be advised it is illegal to vent refrigerant into the atmosphere. Then charge with your duracool in the normal way. I know some of you will think I am nuts but remember I was an A/C service mechanic for a long long time.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169400 is a reply to message #169387] |
Sun, 13 May 2012 02:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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If you only had it open for 20 minutes then just vacuum (evacuate) it and recharge. forget about replacing the drier.
Now I hope you understand why I always immediately tape over the ends when ever a hose is disconnected. That is to keep moisture from migrating into the hoses, compressor, etc. while I have it apart. You must vacuum it after anytime you have had it apart.
I know a few people that simply install one can of their favorite freon and bleed it off instead of using a vacuum pump. It is not the correct way but some people do it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169489 is a reply to message #169481] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 00:05 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 22:26 |
""Also need to change the dryer after system is open
Gene
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
""
WHY ?
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My thinking exactly. If it has only been open a little while or the lines were taped up while it was open then the desiccant has not had enough exposure to require replacement. Just vacuum the system and recharge it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169498 is a reply to message #169489] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 03:14 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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the dryer is already "wet" from keeping a closed system dry.
when you open to "air", the whole system, and the dryer, will become dirty"
and "wet: from the open air
the only way to clean a dryer is to put it under high vacuum, and heat it
to release the water.
when we built high vacuum systems, we sucked on them - hard- and played a
heat lamp on the entire plumbing to release the water.
then we attached a "new" dryer to pick up what ever we were unable to reach.
so - do as you want-
but
when a system is low on refrigerant , I just add duracool (compatible with
them all) to see if the pressures are ok (ala Emery)- (closed)
if that does not work, I suck it down as low as possible ( with an old
refer compressor), no worries about saving the refrigerant (it was already
gone), and see if it will hold vacuum for a cupa days, then add 3 cans of
duracool. (still closed)
if I ever open a system to air, I suck it down, check for leaks, change the
dryer (because it is now wet), suck it down, play a heat lamp over the
components I can reach, then add 3 cans of dura cool.
If you can save $4.55, goforit
JWID
gene
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:05 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 13 May 2012 22:26
> > ""Also need to change the dryer after system is open
> > Gene
> > FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
> >
> >
> > ""
> >
> > WHY ?
>
> My thinking exactly. If it has only been open a little while or the lines
> were taped up while it was open then the desiccant has not had enough
> exposure to require replacement. Just vacuum the system and recharge it.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169528 is a reply to message #169383] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 09:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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20 minutes? not unless it was raining directly into the lines, the receiver/dryer ought top be OK. Pull a vacuum, and recharge the system. The overnight trick is to save the cost of the dryer/ Given several hours, the dessicant (which is adsorptive of water) will purge its moisture. I hook my pump and run it 24 hours, and the dryer is essentially dry at that point. Shops usually don't have the pump time, and owners usually don't want to give up the car, so the fast effective way is replace the receiver/dryer. Also note, if you put a rebuilt compressor in, most rebuilders will not warrant the rebuild unless you replace the receiver/dryer. If it has caught a ration of crud and metal shavings from a compressor achieving Nirvana all of a sudden, it's better replaced.
All replacing the thing will do is hit you gently in the pocket, and the peace of mind is probably worth the $35. I happen to be a cheapskate is all.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: dave silva <admin@oldrv.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool?
leaving the pump on overnight is not really an option, and don't I want to just replace the dryer?
Several people have told me that but i am a little puzzled- it's just a canister full of desiccant.
So the old compressor was disconnected and a new one was put in. The lines were open for less than 20 minutes. Would the ambient moisture overwhelm the dryer?
I'm just trying to understand.
thanks
--
Dave & Ellen Silva
1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169537 is a reply to message #169528] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 10:15 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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[quote title=Johnny Bridges wrote on Mon, 14 May 2012 07:36]20 minutes? not unless it was raining directly into the lines, the receiver/dryer ought top be OK. Pull a vacuum, and recharge the system. The overnight trick is to save the cost of the dryer/ Given several hours, the dessicant (which is adsorptive of water) will purge its moisture. I hook my pump and run it 24 hours, and the dryer is essentially dry at that point. Shops usually don't have the pump time, and owners usually don't want to give up the car, so the fast effective way is replace the receiver/dryer. Also note, if you put a rebuilt compressor in, most rebuilders will not warrant the rebuild unless you replace the receiver/dryer. If it has caught a ration of crud and metal shavings from a compressor achieving Nirvana all of a sudden, it's better replaced.
All replacing the thing will do is hit you gently in the pocket, and the peace of mind is probably worth the $35. I happen to be a cheapskate is all.
--That is especially true with a lot of newer vehicles as they don't have the dryer in the liquid line it is in the suction accumulator. Which means the broken compressor parts however small in quantity wind up in the orifice tube. How stupid is that?
Only the evap coil and compressor is protected from broken parts.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169543 is a reply to message #169537] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 10:49 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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In this case, i don't think we sent any compressor parts into the system. It was the clutch bearing that failed.
Had the compressor failed internally i would not be looking to cheap out as this would be a pretty complete teardown.
One more question, rockauto.com has the accumlator for $27 or $76.
What might be the qualitative difence between one canister full of dessicant and another?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] no need to vac with Duracool? [message #169611 is a reply to message #169599] |
Mon, 14 May 2012 18:47 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Thanks Rob,
click HERE for the two choices.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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