Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Starter Batteries issue (CONFIRMED - GROUND CABLE AT FAULT)
| Starter Batteries issue [message #168696] |
Sun, 06 May 2012 22:35  |
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MangoMushroom
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2008
Location: Emeryville, CA
Karma: 0
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Conditions:
When I get into my coach, both starter batteries are fully charged, as is the house battery. However, starter batteries aren't powering anything, including engine starter.
I can start the engine off of the house battery, and then all electronic devices work fine, presumably running off of the alternator.
If I drive for say, 10 minutes, and then turn off the engine, I now have power from starter batteries to devices such as headlights, aux fuel pump, etc with the engine not running. Then, if I try to start engine off starter batteries, the starter briefly tries to turn over then dies, and I lose all power to all devices.
Is there a fuse gone wrong from the starter batteries to the coach? If so, why would devices work after 10 minutes of engine operation?
Any feedback is gratefully appreciated... Thank You!
****MangoMushroom
`76 GMC Birchaven named "Harvey"
[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 15:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Starter Batteries issue [message #168707 is a reply to message #168697] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 01:17  |
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MangoMushroom
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2008
Location: Emeryville, CA
Karma: 0
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Yes, Starter Batteries! They've have been that way since the day I bought it. The battery tray looks original, and definitely holds two of 'em! I bought new batteries to see if that was the issue, but obviously that's not the issue since they are fully charged.
Any ideas? All fuses are intact in the glove box... is there perhaps a fusible link somewhere that burned? If so, why would I get some power from the batteries?
Still confused...
****MangoMushroom
`76 GMC Birchaven named "Harvey"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168708 is a reply to message #168696] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 01:21 |
Dan W
Messages: 11
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I would suspect corrosion on engine battery terminals but also check ground connection and all other connections.
--
Dan Winchester
gmc.dwinchester.com
Sent from HTC phone
Andre Mandel <andre.mandel@gmail.com> wrote:
Conditions:
When I get into my coach, both starter batteries are fully charged, as is the house battery. However, starter batteries aren't powering anything, including engine starter.
I can start the engine off of the house battery, and then all electronic devices work fine, presumably running off of the alternator.
If I drive for say, 10 minutes, and then turn off the engine, I now have power from starter batteries to devices such as headlights, aux fuel pump, etc with the engine not running. Then, if I try to start engine off starter batteries, the starter briefly tries to turn over then dies, and I lose all power to all devices.
Is there a fuse gone wrong from the starter batteries to the coach? If so, why would devices work after 10 minutes of engine operation?
Any feedback is gratefully appreciated... Thank You!
--
****MangoMushroom
`76 GMC Birchaven
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| Re: Starter Batteries issue [message #168709 is a reply to message #168707] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 01:49 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| MangoMushroom wrote on Sun, 06 May 2012 23:17 |
Yes, Starter Batteries! They've have been that way since the day I bought it. The battery tray looks original, and definitely holds two of 'em! I bought new batteries ...
... Still confused...
|
It sounds like you have a ground problem on the engine battery.
Now lets talk what battery does what:
This is a Birchaven, correct?
As wired from the Coachman factory, it had two batteries mounted on the passenger side front. One was the engine starting battery. The other was the house battery. Some early Birchavens also had a small generator starting battery back by the generator. The later Birchs did not have this and used the house battery to start the Onan through a long cable.
Does any of this match your coach? (Or has it been changed?)
Anyway, look at (clean) the ground from the battery to the engine block.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168720 is a reply to message #168708] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 08:15 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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there is also a braided ground strap just behind and below the batteries that grounds the main frame to the alum. cab structure. it can cause weird problems if not secure.
someone had a really good writeup on grounding but i can't find my link.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168739 is a reply to message #168720] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 10:53 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You might look very carefully at the wiring to the boost solenoid. One battery to each side. At Bean Station, saw one coach with both sides wired together, to one battery. Kind of defeats the purpose of the boost and two battery system.
Wire it back to factory installation, then start testing grounding system (also saw a fried ground connector to the firewall, not too good).
NO telling what the P.O. did or even the one before him (P.P.O.).
Tom Phipps, with 2 batteries up front and one in the butt.
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168759 is a reply to message #168739] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 12:50 |
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MangoMushroom
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2008
Location: Emeryville, CA
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There are two starter batteries up front and one deep cycle marine in the back, in the closet. I am not absolutely sure whether one starter battery is boost, or if the house battery is the boost, or both.
1) starter #1
boost) starter #2 + house?
I guess I could find out by disconnecting my house battery! If boost still works, then one of my starters is a boost battery. I always thought the "aux batt" switch drew power from the house battery in the back
****MangoMushroom
`76 GMC Birchaven named "Harvey"
[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2012 12:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168784 is a reply to message #168759] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 17:32 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 10:50 |
There are two starter batteries up front and one deep cycle marine in the back, in the closet. I am not absolutely sure ...
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I suspect someone, not knowing what battery did what, just put a deep-cycle battery to handle the chore of generator starting. and one of the batteries up front is really your house battery.
--- PO's have been known to do some "amazing things." ---
BUT if you REALLY have two starting batteries, your system has been changed from the factory design. NO-ONE, other than the guy who changed it, can troubleshoot your problem long distance. SO... You'll need to figure it out.... 
That said, It still sounds like you have a problem on the ground side of your "first" starting battery.
OBTW: There should never be a need for two engine batteries unless you run marginal systems elsewhere in your coach. Why not fix them right and be done with it?
If I had your coach, I would put the 12 volt systems back "closer to stock." Just with a good deep cycle as the house. (Maybe even use two 6 volt golf cart batteries?) I would even consider the later Birch set-up with NO dedicated Generator battery.
End result: Systems you'll have less trouble with, that is easier for others (and you) to work on and should provide all the power you should need... for most uses.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168836 is a reply to message #168784] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 21:55 |
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MangoMushroom
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2008
Location: Emeryville, CA
Karma: 0
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Hey everyone, thanks for you feedback. I think I have a bad ground cable from my starter battery to the radiator mount/frame.
Conditions:
STARTER: grounded to radiator mount / frame
AUX: grounded to engine block, runs house lights, etc
HOUSE (back): grounded to frame, runs house lights, etc.
Experiments:
Disconnected House battery. Main battery tries but fails to start engine. Aux battery starts engine no problem using AUX BATT switch on dash. House lights run fine off Aux battery without House battery connected.
Disconnected House battery and Disconnected Starter battery. Aux battery starts engine no problem using AUX BATT switch on dash. House lights run fine off Aux battery without House or Starter battery connected.
Connected House battery. Disconnected both Starter and Aux batteries. Starting engine using AUX BATT switch exhibits same issue as when starting from Starter battery (tries but fails). House lights work fine, even with Aux battery disconnected.
I believe I have a bad ground cable from my Starter battery to radiator mount / frame. Would that make sense? Also, would it make sense to replace the Aux battery (which is a starter battery) with a Deep Cycle? It seems that a Starter and Deep Cycle are working in tandem.
Any feedback is gratefully appreciated.
Thank You Kindly!
****MangoMushroom
`76 GMC Birchaven named "Harvey"
[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2012 22:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Starter Batteries issue [message #168840 is a reply to message #168696] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 22:15 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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One group 78 battery in good shape should start a 455 in below zero conditions per the original design of the coach. 2 in parallel will just be more able to burn out the starter if someone keeps cranking and cranking. If there are 2 in parallel they could be parasitic on each other when it sits and then surface charging when you run it... that describes your symptoms at least from the armchair here. Not really fully charged, just a surface charge and then parsitic draining ot dead again. You could disconnect the negatives and then put a good 12V charger on each battery one at a time and see how much they are drawing and how long they take to go to zero Amps. That should give you a good idea of the state of charge. This will be a good one to decipher.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Starter Batteries issue [message #168850 is a reply to message #168840] |
Mon, 07 May 2012 23:12 |
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MangoMushroom
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2008
Location: Emeryville, CA
Karma: 0
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all batteries are fully charged, even after sitting for awhile
actually, this reminds me... a couple months ago, when I first started having problems, the starter battery would seem to drain in a night or two
after driving long enough to charge the starter battery, I could then start the engine with it. however, within a night or two, the starter battery would be dead. I would always have to start with AUX BATT switch.
this leads me to believe my AUX system is fine
my Starter battery is at issue. however, now, my starter battery retains full charge, just won't start engine
bad ground? the ground cable to starter battery is corroded and probably about 450 years old... I'm going to try replacing it and see what happens!
I also suspect that the starter battery shouldn't be grounded to radiator, but rather the engine block.
****MangoMushroom
`76 GMC Birchaven named "Harvey"
[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2012 23:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Starter Batteries issue [message #168857 is a reply to message #168850] |
Tue, 08 May 2012 00:24 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 19:55 |
Hey everyone, thanks for you feedback. I think I have a bad ground cable from my starter battery to the radiator mount/frame.
Conditions:
STARTER: grounded to radiator mount / frame
AUX: grounded to engine block, runs house lights, etc
HOUSE (back): grounded to frame, runs house lights, etc. ...
<< snipped >>
... Also, would it make sense to replace the Aux battery (which is a starter battery) with a Deep Cycle? It seems that a Starter and Deep Cycle are working in tandem. ...
|
It sounds like someone changed the original system by connecting the Onan starting battery to the house battery system. (Royales actually left the factory like this!) THEN "someone" installed a deep cycle in the position that WAS the dedicated Onan starting battery. So now you seem to have two HOUSE batteries. (One at each end of the coach, connected in parallel.)
BUT YES, this is hard on MATCHED batteries, so a mix of starting and deep cycle would be a problem.
I posted this link when someone was wanting to connect two separate banks, it gives you much more info that you'll most likely want or need: <http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html> Keep in mind that if your batteries are separated by any distance, the cable(s) will add significant resistance causing other issues not addressed in this article.
A solution would be to find and remove the connection between the house to Onan battery systems, then swap the batteries, putting the starting as the Onan (in back) and the deep cycle as the House. (in front)
| MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 21:12 |
all batteries are fully charged, even after sitting for awhile
actually, this reminds me... a couple months ago, when I first started having problems, the starter battery would seem to drain in a night or two...
<< snipped >>
... bad ground? the ground cable to starter battery is corroded and probably about 450 years old... I'm going to try replacing it and see what happens!
I also suspect that the starter battery shouldn't be grounded to radiator, but rather the engine block.
|
As many have posted here: the "mother ground" for the engine 12 volt system is the ENGINE BLOCK. For the most part, everything that handles any amount of current (starter/alternator/battery) should be connected AS DIRECT AS POSSIBLE to the mother ground... the engine.
-- I suspect you have found your starting problem.
(edited to correct bad spelling)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 08:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #168861 is a reply to message #168836] |
Tue, 08 May 2012 00:50 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read this
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5493-gmc-cranking-improve-for-free.html
Gena
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On May 7, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Andre Mandel <andre.mandel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey everyone, thanks for you feedback. I think I have a bad ground cable from my starter battery to the radiator mount/frame.
>
> Conditions:
>
> STARTER: grounded to radiator mount / frame
>
> AUX: grounded to engine block, runs house lights, etc
>
> HOUSE (back): grounded to frame, runs house lights, etc.
>
>
> Experiments:
>
> Disconnected house battery. Main battery tries but fails to start engine. Aux battery starts engine no problem. House lights run fine off Aux battery without house battery.
>
> Connected house battery. Disconnected both starter and aux batteries. Starting engine exhibits same issue as when starting from Starter battery (tries but fails). House lights work fine, even with Aux battery disconnected.
>
>
> I believe I have a bad ground cable from my Starter battery to radiator mount / frame.
>
>
> I believe my ground from Starter battery to radiator mount / frame is bad. Would that make sense? Also, would it make sense to replace the Aux battery (which is a starter battery) with a deep cycle? It seems like there are a starter and deep cycle working in tandem as my Aux.
>
>
> Any feedback is gratefully appreciated.
>
> Thank You Kindly!
>
>
> --
> ****MangoMushroom
> `76 GMC Birchaven
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #185894 is a reply to message #168857] |
Sat, 29 September 2012 01:59 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I wish to switch off my battery with a switch and disconnect the battery to it's self, to be stored with out drain.
There are knife switches like this: http://www.rvpartscenter.com/prodselect.asp?SID=20&DID=131&CID=317
and round red ones that have four screws that would screw into the fire wall just next to the booster switch.
The knife switch can be put on - it states on the negative post of the battery easy to install
It seems to me it is best to switch off the positive wire not the negative
for the electrons would fill the whole wiring up to the negative switch and if it was cut off at the positive post it has less entropy of the system.
Is the knife switch ok to use and as good as the red plastic ones that would be best for the positive cut off,
and is the fire wall "wood" or metal - to screw into next to the booster switch
how would you or do you attach the red west marine type switch to the fire wall next to the booster switch. is this a bolt through that goes all the way
through the floor to the inside with a nut and washer or just a metal screw to put the switch against the dash from the front under the hood.
Hope this makes sense. This will allow me to store for longer times without charging.
i can get 3 weeks now but i have to take the wires off myself and put them back and some times i drop
the nuts into the frame and there are places there that a nut can get hidden and you cannot ever get them back. So i want a switch.
what is a good switch and where do you attach it in the front of the fire wall above the batteries. thank you - if you have humble time to do so.
mickey
palm beach
anaheim ca.
On May 7, 2012, at 10:24 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>
> MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 19:55
>> Hey everyone, thanks for you feedback. I think I have a bad ground cable from my starter battery to the radiator mount/frame.
>>
>> Conditions:
>>
>> STARTER: grounded to radiator mount / frame
>>
>> AUX: grounded to engine block, runs house lights, etc
>>
>> HOUSE (back): grounded to frame, runs house lights, etc. ...
>>
>> << snipped >>
>>
>> ... Also, would it make sense to replace the Aux battery (which is a starter battery) with a Deep Cycle? It seems that a Starter and Deep Cycle are working in tandem. ...
>
>
> It sounds like someone changed the original system by connecting the Onan starting battery to the house battery system. (Royales actually left the factory like this!) THEN "someone" installed a deep cycle in the position that WAS the dedicated Onan starting battery. So now you seem to have two HOUSE batteries. (One at each end of the coach, connected in parallel.)
>
> BUT YES, this is hard on MATCHED batteries, so a mix of starting and deep cycle would be a problem.
>
> I posted this link when someone was wanting to connect two separate banks, it gives you much more info that you'll most likely want or need: <http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html> Keep in mind that if your batteries are separated by any distance, the cable(s) will add significant resistance causing other issues not addressed in this article.
>
> A solution would be to find and remove the connection between the house to Onan battery systems, then swap the batteries, putting the starting as the Onan (in back) and the deep cycle as the House. (in front)
>
> MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 21:12
>> all batteries are fully charged, even after sitting for awhile
>>
>> actually, this reminds me... a couple months ago, when I first started having problems, the starter battery would seem to drain in a night or two...
>>
>> << snipped >>
>>
>> ... bad ground? the ground cable to starter battery is corroded and probably about 450 years old... I'm going to try replacing it and see what happens!
>>
>> I also suspect that the starter battery shouldn't be grounded to radiator, but rather the engine block.
>
>
> As many have posted here: the "mother ground" for the engine 12 volt system is the ENGINE BLOCK. For the most part, everything that handles any amount of current (starter/alternator/battery) should be connected AS DIRECT AS POSSIBLE to the mother ground... the engine.
>
> -- I suspect you have found your stating problem.
> --
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #185895 is a reply to message #185894] |
Sat, 29 September 2012 06:15 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Mickey,
If you look at the picture of the second item you see that the switch is
mounted to the battery. I have seen a coach where they can reach through
the grill to open or close the switch without opening the hood. Advice
that I have always gotten is you disconnect the negative side first.
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Mickey Space Ship Shuttle <
mickeysss@me.com> wrote:
>
> I wish to switch off my battery with a switch and disconnect the battery
> to it's self, to be stored with out drain.
>
> There are knife switches like this:
> http://www.rvpartscenter.com/prodselect.asp?SID=20&DID=131&CID=317
>
> and round red ones that have four screws that would screw into the fire
> wall just next to the booster switch.
>
> The knife switch can be put on - it states on the negative post of the
> battery easy to install
>
> It seems to me it is best to switch off the positive wire not the negative
>
> for the electrons would fill the whole wiring up to the negative switch
> and if it was cut off at the positive post it has less entropy of the
> system.
>
> Is the knife switch ok to use and as good as the red plastic ones that
> would be best for the positive cut off,
>
> and is the fire wall "wood" or metal - to screw into next to the booster
> switch
>
> how would you or do you attach the red west marine type switch to the fire
> wall next to the booster switch. is this a bolt through that goes all the
> way
>
> through the floor to the inside with a nut and washer or just a metal
> screw to put the switch against the dash from the front under the hood.
>
> Hope this makes sense. This will allow me to store for longer times
> without charging.
>
> i can get 3 weeks now but i have to take the wires off myself and put them
> back and some times i drop
>
> the nuts into the frame and there are places there that a nut can get
> hidden and you cannot ever get them back. So i want a switch.
>
> what is a good switch and where do you attach it in the front of the fire
> wall above the batteries. thank you - if you have humble time to do so.
>
>
> mickey
>
> palm beach
>
> anaheim ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 7, 2012, at 10:24 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 19:55
> >> Hey everyone, thanks for you feedback. I think I have a bad ground
> cable from my starter battery to the radiator mount/frame.
> >>
> >> Conditions:
> >>
> >> STARTER: grounded to radiator mount / frame
> >>
> >> AUX: grounded to engine block, runs house lights, etc
> >>
> >> HOUSE (back): grounded to frame, runs house lights, etc. ...
> >>
> >> << snipped >>
> >>
> >> ... Also, would it make sense to replace the Aux battery (which is a
> starter battery) with a Deep Cycle? It seems that a Starter and Deep Cycle
> are working in tandem. ...
> >
> >
> > It sounds like someone changed the original system by connecting the
> Onan starting battery to the house battery system. (Royales actually left
> the factory like this!) THEN "someone" installed a deep cycle in the
> position that WAS the dedicated Onan starting battery. So now you seem to
> have two HOUSE batteries. (One at each end of the coach, connected in
> parallel.)
> >
> > BUT YES, this is hard on MATCHED batteries, so a mix of starting and
> deep cycle would be a problem.
> >
> > I posted this link when someone was wanting to connect two separate
> banks, it gives you much more info that you'll most likely want or need: <
> http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html> Keep in mind that if your
> batteries are separated by any distance, the cable(s) will add significant
> resistance causing other issues not addressed in this article.
> >
> > A solution would be to find and remove the connection between the house
> to Onan battery systems, then swap the batteries, putting the starting as
> the Onan (in back) and the deep cycle as the House. (in front)
> >
> > MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 21:12
> >> all batteries are fully charged, even after sitting for awhile
> >>
> >> actually, this reminds me... a couple months ago, when I first started
> having problems, the starter battery would seem to drain in a night or
> two...
> >>
> >> << snipped >>
> >>
> >> ... bad ground? the ground cable to starter battery is corroded and
> probably about 450 years old... I'm going to try replacing it and see what
> happens!
> >>
> >> I also suspect that the starter battery shouldn't be grounded to
> radiator, but rather the engine block.
> >
> >
> > As many have posted here: the "mother ground" for the engine 12 volt
> system is the ENGINE BLOCK. For the most part, everything that handles any
> amount of current (starter/alternator/battery) should be connected AS
> DIRECT AS POSSIBLE to the mother ground... the engine.
> >
> > -- I suspect you have found your stating problem.
> > --
> > Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> > (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77
> 23' Birchaven Side Bath
> > http://m000035.blogspot.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #185911 is a reply to message #185895] |
Sat, 29 September 2012 11:30 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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thank you.
best regards mickey
77 palm beach
anaheim ca.
On Sep 29, 2012, at 4:15 AM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> Mickey,
>
> If you look at the picture of the second item you see that the switch is
> mounted to the battery. I have seen a coach where they can reach through
> the grill to open or close the switch without opening the hood. Advice
> that I have always gotten is you disconnect the negative side first.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Mickey Space Ship Shuttle <
> mickeysss@me.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I wish to switch off my battery with a switch and disconnect the battery
>> to it's self, to be stored with out drain.
>>
>> There are knife switches like this:
>> http://www.rvpartscenter.com/prodselect.asp?SID=20&DID=131&CID=317
>>
>> and round red ones that have four screws that would screw into the fire
>> wall just next to the booster switch.
>>
>> The knife switch can be put on - it states on the negative post of the
>> battery easy to install
>>
>> It seems to me it is best to switch off the positive wire not the negative
>>
>> for the electrons would fill the whole wiring up to the negative switch
>> and if it was cut off at the positive post it has less entropy of the
>> system.
>>
>> Is the knife switch ok to use and as good as the red plastic ones that
>> would be best for the positive cut off,
>>
>> and is the fire wall "wood" or metal - to screw into next to the booster
>> switch
>>
>> how would you or do you attach the red west marine type switch to the fire
>> wall next to the booster switch. is this a bolt through that goes all the
>> way
>>
>> through the floor to the inside with a nut and washer or just a metal
>> screw to put the switch against the dash from the front under the hood.
>>
>> Hope this makes sense. This will allow me to store for longer times
>> without charging.
>>
>> i can get 3 weeks now but i have to take the wires off myself and put them
>> back and some times i drop
>>
>> the nuts into the frame and there are places there that a nut can get
>> hidden and you cannot ever get them back. So i want a switch.
>>
>> what is a good switch and where do you attach it in the front of the fire
>> wall above the batteries. thank you - if you have humble time to do so.
>>
>>
>> mickey
>>
>> palm beach
>>
>> anaheim ca.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 7, 2012, at 10:24 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 19:55
>>>> Hey everyone, thanks for you feedback. I think I have a bad ground
>> cable from my starter battery to the radiator mount/frame.
>>>>
>>>> Conditions:
>>>>
>>>> STARTER: grounded to radiator mount / frame
>>>>
>>>> AUX: grounded to engine block, runs house lights, etc
>>>>
>>>> HOUSE (back): grounded to frame, runs house lights, etc. ...
>>>>
>>>> << snipped >>
>>>>
>>>> ... Also, would it make sense to replace the Aux battery (which is a
>> starter battery) with a Deep Cycle? It seems that a Starter and Deep Cycle
>> are working in tandem. ...
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds like someone changed the original system by connecting the
>> Onan starting battery to the house battery system. (Royales actually left
>> the factory like this!) THEN "someone" installed a deep cycle in the
>> position that WAS the dedicated Onan starting battery. So now you seem to
>> have two HOUSE batteries. (One at each end of the coach, connected in
>> parallel.)
>>>
>>> BUT YES, this is hard on MATCHED batteries, so a mix of starting and
>> deep cycle would be a problem.
>>>
>>> I posted this link when someone was wanting to connect two separate
>> banks, it gives you much more info that you'll most likely want or need: <
>> http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html> Keep in mind that if your
>> batteries are separated by any distance, the cable(s) will add significant
>> resistance causing other issues not addressed in this article.
>>>
>>> A solution would be to find and remove the connection between the house
>> to Onan battery systems, then swap the batteries, putting the starting as
>> the Onan (in back) and the deep cycle as the House. (in front)
>>>
>>> MangoMushroom wrote on Mon, 07 May 2012 21:12
>>>> all batteries are fully charged, even after sitting for awhile
>>>>
>>>> actually, this reminds me... a couple months ago, when I first started
>> having problems, the starter battery would seem to drain in a night or
>> two...
>>>>
>>>> << snipped >>
>>>>
>>>> ... bad ground? the ground cable to starter battery is corroded and
>> probably about 450 years old... I'm going to try replacing it and see what
>> happens!
>>>>
>>>> I also suspect that the starter battery shouldn't be grounded to
>> radiator, but rather the engine block.
>>>
>>>
>>> As many have posted here: the "mother ground" for the engine 12 volt
>> system is the ENGINE BLOCK. For the most part, everything that handles any
>> amount of current (starter/alternator/battery) should be connected AS
>> DIRECT AS POSSIBLE to the mother ground... the engine.
>>>
>>> -- I suspect you have found your stating problem.
>>> --
>>> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
>>> (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77
>> 23' Birchaven Side Bath
>>> http://m000035.blogspot.com
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>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starter Batteries issue [message #185919 is a reply to message #185894] |
Sat, 29 September 2012 15:41 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Mickey,
It makes no difference which side you put the disconnect switch on.
Mine are both on the positive side.
Some people subscribe to the theory that if you disconnect a battery cable from a battery post and the wrench slips shorting the cable to ground, nothing will happen if you disconnect the negative cable first.
That theory doesn't apply to disconnect switches since there is no idiot with a wrench involved with its normal operation.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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