Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts
| [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167606] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 03:00  |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 1
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Just noticed while working on the GMC that the "mechanic" failed to put the front motor mount bolts that go thru the crossmember back in. Anyone know what size bolts fit? Can't find the original ones...
Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
"DILLIGAF"
Lindale, Tx. 75771
903-881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167627 is a reply to message #167606] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 11:35  |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Yikes!!!!!
Those bolts keep the engine in lateral position. And they keep the engine down, of course. It is a tri- pod kind of mounting. Good thing the fan venturi ring is mounted to the engine itself, because the fan would crash.
Don't bother trying to get studs for that motor mount now. I'm not absolutely sure they were studs to start with. Besides. You will have to lift the engine to get them in, and that will be a lot of parts removal and hassle.
I'm the second person to remove my engine and it had bolts when I removed mine and I replaced them with new bolts on installation.
I'm sorry I don't remember the exact size I used but they came from a standard bolt bin
My unit is still in the air so it would be relative easy for me to remove one this weekend and let you know if nobody else can tell you.
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167633 is a reply to message #167606] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 13:01 |
James Moore
Messages: 71
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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John,
There are two sets of bolts attaching the engine to the frame and you
didn't specify which set.
There are 2 bolts attaching the motor mount to the engine. These are
probably 3/8" X 1" or 3/8" X 11/4". Make sure the unthreaded shoulder, if
there is one, doen't extend past the motor mount and prevent you from
completely tightening the bolts. When tight, the bolt should extend at
least one thread past the nut.
There are 2 studs, Part No. 390403, that attach the motor mount to the
frame. The parts book doesn't give the size, but 3/8" X 1 1/4" or 3/8" X
11/2" studs should work fine. The threads on the end that screws into the
motor mount should be 3/8" UNC which have 16 threads per inch. If one end
of the studs has shorter threads than the other, screw the end with the
short threads into the motor mount. The same caution as to shoulder length
applies to the studs.
You will need 2 - 3/8" nuts and lock washers also.
Installing the bolts should be an simple task. First try lining up the
holes in the motor mount to the engine or frame as the case may be using a
long punch or a long No. 3 Phillips screw driver. (Carefull, the screw
driver may bend.) If you can't move the mount enough to line up the
holes, place a bottle jack uner the final drive and raise the engine enough
to remove most of the weight on the motor mount.
If you can't line up the bolt holes, raise the engine enough with the jack
to remove all the weight on the motor mount and then loosen the studs, or
bolts until you can twist the motor mount into position.
If you are installing the studs and you can't screw them into the motor
mount by hand, try placing two nuts on the stud ends with the longest
threads and tightening them together. Then screw the studs in using a
wrench.
Hope this helps.
Jim
> [Original Message]
> From: John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Date: 4/26/2012 9:35:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts
>
>
>
> Yikes!!!!!
>
> Those bolts keep the engine in lateral position. And they keep the
engine down, of course. It is a tri- pod kind of mounting. Good thing
the fan venturi ring is mounted to the engine itself, because the fan would
crash.
>
> Don't bother trying to get studs for that motor mount now. I'm not
absolutely sure they were studs to start with. Besides. You will have to
lift the engine to get them in, and that will be a lot of parts removal and
hassle.
>
> I'm the second person to remove my engine and it had bolts when I removed
mine and I replaced them with new bolts on installation.
>
> I'm sorry I don't remember the exact size I used but they came from a
standard bolt bin
>
> My unit is still in the air so it would be relative easy for me to remove
one this weekend and let you know if nobody else can tell you.
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
>
> --
> John and Cathie Heslinga
> 1974 Canyonlands 260
> TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
> Retirement Projects Galore
> Edmonton, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167634 is a reply to message #167633] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 13:46 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Warning! DO NOT PUT YOUR JACK ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PAN TO LIFT
ENGINE! You will push the pan bottom up into the crank. You need to
use an adapter that pushes on the block rails where the pan mates to
the block. It can be made out of wood and I would suggest using a
hardwood such as oak or maple for the side parts. I think that I have
one some where in the shop and If I can find it I will post the picture.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Apr 26, 2012, at 2:01 PM, James Moore wrote:
> John,
> There are two sets of bolts attaching the engine to the frame and you
> didn't specify which set.
>
> There are 2 bolts attaching the motor mount to the engine. These are
> probably 3/8" X 1" or 3/8" X 11/4". Make sure the unthreaded
> shoulder, if
> there is one, doen't extend past the motor mount and prevent you from
> completely tightening the bolts. When tight, the bolt should extend
> at
> least one thread past the nut.
>
> There are 2 studs, Part No. 390403, that attach the motor mount to the
> frame. The parts book doesn't give the size, but 3/8" X 1 1/4" or
> 3/8" X
> 11/2" studs should work fine. The threads on the end that screws
> into the
> motor mount should be 3/8" UNC which have 16 threads per inch. If
> one end
> of the studs has shorter threads than the other, screw the end with
> the
> short threads into the motor mount. The same caution as to shoulder
> length
> applies to the studs.
>
> You will need 2 - 3/8" nuts and lock washers also.
>
> Installing the bolts should be an simple task. First try lining up
> the
> holes in the motor mount to the engine or frame as the case may be
> using a
> long punch or a long No. 3 Phillips screw driver. (Carefull, the
> screw
> driver may bend.) If you can't move the mount enough to line up the
> holes, place a bottle jack uner the final drive and raise the engine
> enough
> to remove most of the weight on the motor mount.
>
> If you can't line up the bolt holes, raise the engine enough with
> the jack
> to remove all the weight on the motor mount and then loosen the
> studs, or
> bolts until you can twist the motor mount into position.
>
> If you are installing the studs and you can't screw them into the
> motor
> mount by hand, try placing two nuts on the stud ends with the longest
> threads and tightening them together. Then screw the studs in using a
> wrench.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Jim
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com>
>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>> Date: 4/26/2012 9:35:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts
>>
>>
>>
>> Yikes!!!!!
>>
>> Those bolts keep the engine in lateral position. And they keep the
> engine down, of course. It is a tri- pod kind of mounting. Good
> thing
> the fan venturi ring is mounted to the engine itself, because the
> fan would
> crash.
>>
>> Don't bother trying to get studs for that motor mount now. I'm not
> absolutely sure they were studs to start with. Besides. You will
> have to
> lift the engine to get them in, and that will be a lot of parts
> removal and
> hassle.
>>
>> I'm the second person to remove my engine and it had bolts when I
>> removed
> mine and I replaced them with new bolts on installation.
>>
>> I'm sorry I don't remember the exact size I used but they came from a
> standard bolt bin
>>
>> My unit is still in the air so it would be relative easy for me to
>> remove
> one this weekend and let you know if nobody else can tell you.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John and Cathie Heslinga
>> 1974 Canyonlands 260
>> TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
>> Retirement Projects Galore
>> Edmonton, Alberta
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167637 is a reply to message #167634] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 14:48 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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That would explain the huge dent in my pan. ;)
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 26, 2012, at 11:46 AM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
> Warning! DO NOT PUT YOUR JACK ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PAN TO LIFT
> ENGINE! You will push the pan bottom up into the crank. You need to
> use an adapter that pushes on the block rails where the pan mates to
> the block. It can be made out of wood and I would suggest using a
> hardwood such as oak or maple for the side parts. I think that I have
> one some where in the shop and If I can find it I will post the picture.
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> 78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
> 1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
> On Apr 26, 2012, at 2:01 PM, James Moore wrote:
>
>> John,
>> There are two sets of bolts attaching the engine to the frame and you
>> didn't specify which set.
>>
>> There are 2 bolts attaching the motor mount to the engine. These are
>> probably 3/8" X 1" or 3/8" X 11/4". Make sure the unthreaded
>> shoulder, if
>> there is one, doen't extend past the motor mount and prevent you from
>> completely tightening the bolts. When tight, the bolt should extend
>> at
>> least one thread past the nut.
>>
>> There are 2 studs, Part No. 390403, that attach the motor mount to the
>> frame. The parts book doesn't give the size, but 3/8" X 1 1/4" or
>> 3/8" X
>> 11/2" studs should work fine. The threads on the end that screws
>> into the
>> motor mount should be 3/8" UNC which have 16 threads per inch. If
>> one end
>> of the studs has shorter threads than the other, screw the end with
>> the
>> short threads into the motor mount. The same caution as to shoulder
>> length
>> applies to the studs.
>>
>> You will need 2 - 3/8" nuts and lock washers also.
>>
>> Installing the bolts should be an simple task. First try lining up
>> the
>> holes in the motor mount to the engine or frame as the case may be
>> using a
>> long punch or a long No. 3 Phillips screw driver. (Carefull, the
>> screw
>> driver may bend.) If you can't move the mount enough to line up the
>> holes, place a bottle jack uner the final drive and raise the engine
>> enough
>> to remove most of the weight on the motor mount.
>>
>> If you can't line up the bolt holes, raise the engine enough with
>> the jack
>> to remove all the weight on the motor mount and then loosen the
>> studs, or
>> bolts until you can twist the motor mount into position.
>>
>> If you are installing the studs and you can't screw them into the
>> motor
>> mount by hand, try placing two nuts on the stud ends with the longest
>> threads and tightening them together. Then screw the studs in using a
>> wrench.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com>
>>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>>> Date: 4/26/2012 9:35:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yikes!!!!!
>>>
>>> Those bolts keep the engine in lateral position. And they keep the
>> engine down, of course. It is a tri- pod kind of mounting. Good
>> thing
>> the fan venturi ring is mounted to the engine itself, because the
>> fan would
>> crash.
>>>
>>> Don't bother trying to get studs for that motor mount now. I'm not
>> absolutely sure they were studs to start with. Besides. You will
>> have to
>> lift the engine to get them in, and that will be a lot of parts
>> removal and
>> hassle.
>>>
>>> I'm the second person to remove my engine and it had bolts when I
>>> removed
>> mine and I replaced them with new bolts on installation.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry I don't remember the exact size I used but they came from a
>> standard bolt bin
>>>
>>> My unit is still in the air so it would be relative easy for me to
>>> remove
>> one this weekend and let you know if nobody else can tell you.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John and Cathie Heslinga
>>> 1974 Canyonlands 260
>>> TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
>>> Retirement Projects Galore
>>> Edmonton, Alberta
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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GMCnet mailing list
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167668 is a reply to message #167606] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 20:55 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Richard Brown wrote on Thu, 26 April 2012 03:00 |
Just noticed while working on the GMC that the "mechanic" failed to put the front motor mount bolts that go thru the crossmember back in. Anyone know what size bolts fit? Can't find the original ones...
Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
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I have these fasteners out of my '74 right now. They are studs 7/16"X14X1-1/4" They do have the unthreaded shoulder.
I can see why GM used studs. With studs the motor mount can be mounted to the engine and the studs inserted into the motor mount and the studs then act as locater pins to guide the mount into the frame holes. It save having to deal with alignment tools.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167681 is a reply to message #167678] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 21:54 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 26 April 2012 21:40 |
Steve,
What you've described below is exactly what the Parts Book shows.
Since the studs are unthreaded it is the engines weight that keeps the studs
in the rubber mount.
It would be helpful if you could take some pictures of the studs (with
measurements) and the rubber mount (so we can see how the studs interface
with it.
In the Parts Book it appears that these studs are stepped with a fatter
center section is that correct?
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Yep - a picture would be good. I took one but left the camera in the barn. I'll get it posted tomorrow. Stud are not stepped but the unthreaded portion is full diameter. There are threads on each end of the stud. It screws into the motor mount.
I'll take some pics of the mount.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167692 is a reply to message #167678] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 22:34 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts
> Steve,
>
> What you've described below is exactly what the Parts Book
> shows.
>
> Since the studs are unthreaded it is the engines weight that
> keeps the studs
> in the rubber mount.
Rob, you really didn't mean to say that that way, did you? I
mean, you do
know what a stud is, don't you?????
> It would be helpful if you could take some pictures of the
> studs (with
> measurements) and the rubber mount (so we can see how the studs
> interface
> with it.
>
> In the Parts Book it appears that these studs are stepped with
> a fatter
> center section is that correct?
They look fatter in the middle because there's no screwing there.
Oh yes, I guess I really should have said threads. LOL
There's also a pilot on the bottom end to help you get the nut
started straight
when reaching up through the hole in the frame.
GM used those crimped locking nuts so when you try to unscrew
them, the
stud comes out with it.
Gary Kosier the pack rat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Southworth
>
> I have these fasteners out of my '74 right now. They are studs
> 7/16"X14X1-1/4" They do have the unthreaded shoulder.
>
> I can see why GM used studs. With studs the motor mount can
> be mounted to
> the engine and the studs inserted into the motor mount and the
> studs then
> act as locater pins to guide the mount into the frame holes.
> It save having
> to deal with alignment tools.
>
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167702 is a reply to message #167692] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 23:21 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I am sitting at my desk at home and only have the manuals to reference.
I thought that one end of the stud wasn't threaded because the parts book
did not show any nuts. I have just realized that there are nuts welded to
the engine mounting bracket after looking at page 6A-28 (FRONT ENGINE
MOUNTS) in X-7525.
It is my guess that the unthreaded portion in the middle of the stud allows
the rubber mount to function as a rubber mount. If you use bolts and tighten
them down they will compress the rubber mount compromising it's function.
Steve's pictures will clarify how it all goes together when he posts them.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kosier
Rob, you really didn't mean to say that that way, did you? I mean, you do
know what a stud is, don't you?????
They look fatter in the middle because there's no screwing there. Oh yes, I
guess I really should have said threads. LOL
There's also a pilot on the bottom end to help you get the nut started
straight when reaching up through the hole in the frame. GM used those
crimped locking nuts so when you try to unscrew them, the stud comes out
with it.
Gary
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167709 is a reply to message #167606] |
Fri, 27 April 2012 00:04 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Yup !!
Installing and initially aligning the engine sure would have been easier if the studs had been there. Especially when I was installing my engine on my own. Now that your engine is in place, the locating pin purpose is pretty well moot. The fan shroud system, venturi ring, hoses, tranny cooling lines may not allow enough upward movement of the engine to install the studs into the motor mount effectively without removing the entire rubber mount first. Be careful when trying to lift that engine that you do not damage other things. The repair you choose may have a lot to do with who will be doing the repair and how much it will cost.
However: Having studs is the correct and factory way to properly correct the problem. (The engine mounts, both front and back, are studs using nuts to "clamp" them to the Frame.) If you are planning on putting in studs, then you will need to access the bottom of the motor mount and "Double nut" them in place. It is really important that you ensure the studs "Bottom" into the rubber mount to be sure enough threads are engaged to properly torque the motor mount. Double nutting is the only way to ensure this is properly done and not damage the stud with pliers or what ever tool you might be trying to use. (You may need to remove the entire rubber mount by removing the two upper bolts that mount it to the front engine bracket to effectivly do this) (Either that, or see if you can thread the studs through the cross member, but I think it might be impossible to actually double nut and then remove the nuts after you are done.) Put the short end of the stud into the bottom of the motor mount.
The Nut will also have to have flanges on it or use large washers to spread the load over the cross member material. The holes in the cross member are slots, and the large washers clamp the mount.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167710 is a reply to message #167606] |
Fri, 27 April 2012 00:12 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Re Motor Mount
Seems to be some confusion as to which bolts are use for engine mounting.
The Motor Mount is basiclly manufactured using two metal plates with a Rubber Block bonded to the plates. It's purpose is to absorb engine vibration and motion from being transmitted to the frame. There are 2 Bolts that hold one plate to the Engine Bracket Mounted to the front of the engine and there are two studs that mount the other plate to the cross member or Frame. Hense there is is no mechanical connection from engine to Frame other than the stiffness of the rubber block.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167711 is a reply to message #167606] |
Fri, 27 April 2012 00:34 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I saw the diagram with the studs, but I can tell you that I saw the bolts while they were out. They were definitely bolts with thick washers on them. Since the motor tends to raise up under torque, it seems that some compression is good since the mount is under more pulling strain than weight. If I can get studs, that seems to be a good thing where alignment is concerned but I'll use bolts in a pinch. It may be that the self-locking nuts may have stayed on the studs or the studs were damaged somehow, so the PO used bolts. Chances are getting new original studs would be a heck of a search. Very likely they'd be unobtainable...
Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
"DILLIGAF"
Lindale, Tx. 75771
903-881-0192
_______________________________________________
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front motor mount bolts [message #167726 is a reply to message #167714] |
Fri, 27 April 2012 08:01 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken, I did not jack my motor up with my pan. While under my coach shortly after purchase I noticed the dented pan and wondered WTF?
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 26, 2012, at 11:16 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> sgltrac wrote on Thu, 26 April 2012 14:48
>> That would explain the huge dent in my pan. ;)
>>
>> Sully
>> 77 royale
>
>
> You are not the first one to do that. I know of one case where they gave up trying to find a slight noise and pulled the engine only to find out it was the crank just slightly hitting the crank. Then he remembered jacking up the engine on the pan just before the noise started happening.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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