| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator/ hinderburg/ HHO safety [message #165273] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 06:56  |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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I will admit to being not much of a chemist, but what in the world is "HHO"? It isn't "separated", but is "split"?? Huh? I'm getting the impression that it is a mixture of O2 and H2, where electrolysis has been used to separate it. Right? That means that gaseous H2 Comes off one electrode and O2 comes off the other, but it is collected and fed to the engine as a mixture. Right? Yes, that would make the mixture explosive, but I don't see that as a problem as long as the quantity is kept small and there is no ignition source. But calling it HHO? It confused me, but then I'm easily confused :-( If I'm right, the O2 being fed into the engine doesn't do much, as the incoming air is already 20% oxygen. No problem - and no advantage - the creation of pure oxygen is "wasted" in the process.
previously posted:
THE HHO mix is different, the HYDROGEN and OXYGEN is split by electrical means but it is not separated, and a spark could ignite it.
Hydrogen is usually (always?) used as a heat exhanging coolant for large electrical generators, and the media in Stirling engines. It has a very high specific heat (takes a lot of heat to warm a pound of gas) and has low aerodynamic drag. Other gases would cause more drag on the armature and not be as effective at absorbing heat. I remember taking time to fill them with H2. First, we pulled as much vacuum as we could. Then we filled it with nitrogen and measured the O2 concentration. Then we evacuated it again and finally filled it with H2. There was a continuous oxygen monitor that would give us an alarm if there got to be too much. The shaft seals at each end were of the labyrinth type filled with oil. We also had a process that put a vacuum on the oil to get the dissolved H2 out of the oil.
Gary Casey
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator/ hinderburg/ HHO safety [message #165279 is a reply to message #165273] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 08:36  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Gary,
More science; great! Beats the "witchcraft!"
Any idea why Helium wasn't used?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Casey
I will admit to being not much of a chemist, but what in the world is "HHO"?
It isn't "separated", but is "split"?? Huh? I'm getting the impression
that it is a mixture of O2 and H2, where electrolysis has been used to
separate it. Right? That means that gaseous H2 Comes off one electrode and
O2 comes off the other, but it is collected and fed to the engine as a
mixture. Right? Yes, that would make the mixture explosive, but I don't
see that as a problem as long as the quantity is kept small and there is no
ignition source. But calling it HHO? It confused me, but then I'm easily
confused :-( If I'm right, the O2 being fed into the engine doesn't do
much, as the incoming air is already 20% oxygen. No problem - and no
advantage - the creation of pure oxygen is "wasted" in the process.
previously posted:
THE HHO mix is different, the HYDROGEN and OXYGEN is split by electrical
means but it is not separated, and a spark could ignite it.
Hydrogen is usually (always?) used as a heat exhanging coolant for large
electrical generators, and the media in Stirling engines. It has a very
high specific heat (takes a lot of heat to warm a pound of gas) and has low
aerodynamic drag. Other gases would cause more drag on the armature and not
be as effective at absorbing heat. I remember taking time to fill them with
H2. First, we pulled as much vacuum as we could. Then we filled it with
nitrogen and measured the O2 concentration. Then we evacuated it again and
finally filled it with H2. There was a continuous oxygen monitor that would
give us an alarm if there got to be too much. The shaft seals at each end
were of the labyrinth type filled with oil. We also had a process that put
a vacuum on the oil to get the dissolved H2 out of the oil.
Gary Casey
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator/ hinderburg/ HHO safety [message #165280 is a reply to message #165279] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 08:49 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
The helium wiki says the USA controlled the world production of helium (gas wells) and did not allow foreign countries access because of national security concerns.
Dennis
| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 04 April 2012 08:36 |
Gary,
More science; great! Beats the "witchcraft!"
Any idea why Helium wasn't used?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Casey
I will admit to being not much of a chemist, but what in the world is "HHO"?
It isn't "separated", but is "split"?? Huh? I'm getting the impression
that it is a mixture of O2 and H2, where electrolysis has been used to
separate it. Right? That means that gaseous H2 Comes off one electrode and
O2 comes off the other, but it is collected and fed to the engine as a
mixture. Right? Yes, that would make the mixture explosive, but I don't
see that as a problem as long as the quantity is kept small and there is no
ignition source. But calling it HHO? It confused me, but then I'm easily
confused  If I'm right, the O2 being fed into the engine doesn't do
much, as the incoming air is already 20% oxygen. No problem - and no
advantage - the creation of pure oxygen is "wasted" in the process.
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator/ hinderburg/ HHO safety [message #165282 is a reply to message #165280] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 09:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Dennis,
I was asking Gary why Helium wasn't used in the applications he mentioned.
As far as the Hindenburg goes I have a much better source of information
than Wiki - my Grandfather.
He told me all about the Hindenburg when I discovered a letter with one of
these stamps on it.
http://www.airships.net/zeppelin-mail/hindenburg-covers
He told me that the German government had requested the US government supply
them with Helium, however, because of the "problems" going on in Europe with
Mr. Hitler the US Government would not do so.
BTW my Grandfather's name was Adolph Max Weltz; he called himself Max and
NEVER used Adolph because of Mr. Hitler!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton
Rob,
The helium wiki says the USA controlled the world production of helium (gas
wells) and did not allow foreign countries access because of national
security concerns.
Dennis
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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