Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator
| [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165085] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 19:56  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
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Just to start a new thread - we were talking about this on the Gas Tank thread. Jim Bounds has installed a hydrogen generator on an owner's coach. The devices is from <http://mileageshop.com/mileage-saver-double-unit>. It uses water, potassium hydroxide, and electricity to make HHO that is plumbed into the air cleaner of the car.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165108 is a reply to message #165085] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 22:28  |
RadioActiveGMC
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I use one on my 1973 220D Mercedes Diesel. It DOES make hydrogen. I had it explode once. I forgot to shut it off, and it made tons of hydrogen then I warmed the Glow Plugs and KABOOM! Its a MB diesel and didn't cause a bit of damage, but man it was loud and scary!
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Mon, 02 April 2012 22:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165112 is a reply to message #165108] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 22:38 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
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Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
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Well Mr Rad..
Then the question would be, did your mileage improve with this Hydrogen generator on your Mercedes or was it just a loud noise maker???
I have interest in the HHO wave but just havent been able to see it work.
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165117 is a reply to message #165085] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 23:03 |
RadioActiveGMC
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Location: Hot AZ desert
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Well I have a really poor excuse for not knowing! lol
I bought the car with one installed. The mechanic that owned it worked for a german car shop and installed it himself. He was a hyper mileage guy. Over inflated the tires, Hydrogen maker, took the AC compressor off, and ran it low weight. He insisted he got over 55 mpg. Which I may actually think is honest.
However I drove the car only for about a mth, even though I have owned it for about 1.5 years now. I'm restoring it. I own 5 cars so am in zero rush. I did brew up a batch of potion for the tank and used it when I drove it the mth. The chemical is dirt cheap on ebay. It draws some serious amps, if I recall 15amps non stop. The rear end is upgraded from a W115 to a W123. So that made the speedo way off. I didn't drive it enough to ever figure it out. However I can tell you either way that car gets close to 35+++ Alls I know is it made enough hydrogen to make a HUGE BANG in about 10-12 minutes of being idol. It scared the C#$% out of me!!!!!
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165118 is a reply to message #165085] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 23:04 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
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To produce that much hydrogen it would take a substantial amount of amps,
more than the 20 amps it claims. This could over work the existing
alternator and cause a premature failure in the alternator.
Any wisp of cloud is most likely water droplets generated by the generator,
hydrogen it's self is invisible.
Two items I see that would be a must is a flash back arrestor and a bubbler
to prevent backfires from igniting the hydrogen in the generator.
I am in favor of a hydrogen generator and will pursue one after I get my
coach useable for dry camping.
I have made hydrogen generator for my 1997 Chevy truck but was unable to
get past the electronics to see a gain in mileage.
My generator used plates that were 3 stacks of 6 cells 5"x5" and it took
45 amps to produce 3 litters of hho gas.
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> Just to start a new thread - we were talking about this on the Gas Tank
> thread. Jim Bounds has installed a hydrogen generator on an owner's coach.
> The devices is from <http://mileageshop.com/mileage-saver-double-unit>.
> It uses water, potassium hydroxide, and electricity to make HHO that is
> plumbed into the air cleaner of the car.
>
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
> The Mystery Machine
> '76 (ish) Palm Beach
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165121 is a reply to message #165118] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 23:22 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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| Bruce Hart wrote on Mon, 02 April 2012 23:04 |
To produce that much hydrogen (TO PRODUCE HOW MUCH HYDROGEN MEANING) it would take a substantial amount of amps,
more than the 20 amps it claims (My System I think draws 15 amps it maybe 20 but I'm guessing it was 15). This could over work the existing
alternator and cause a premature failure in the alternator.
Any wisp of cloud (what cloud?) is most likely water droplets generated by the generator,
hydrogen it's self is invisible.
Two items I see that would be a must is a flash back arrestor and a bubbler
to prevent backfires from igniting the hydrogen in the generator (agreed my bubbler cap blew off with the hydrogen explosion never to be found again).
I am in favor of a hydrogen generator and will pursue one after I get my
coach useable for dry camping.
I have made hydrogen generator for my 1997 Chevy truck but was unable to
get past the electronics to see a gain in mileage.
My generator used plates that were 3 stacks of 6 cells 5"x5" and it took
45 amps to produce 3 litters of hho gas. (I don't know the rating of mine, but I do recall how important the quality of the plates are, the system I use is made in the USA, I remember that point exactly large plates are important, but the quality of the plates is important as well)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> Just to start a new thread - we were talking about this on the Gas Tank
> thread. Jim Bounds has installed a hydrogen generator on an owner's coach.
> The devices is from <http://mileageshop.com/mileage-saver-double-unit>.
> It uses water, potassium hydroxide, and electricity to make HHO that is
> plumbed into the air cleaner of the car.
>
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
> The Mystery Machine
> '76 (ish) Palm Beach
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
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***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165135 is a reply to message #165085] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 06:15 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
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Remember what was in the Hindenberg?
Another thought to ponder has anyone ever had a battery explode in a vehicle and seen the damage. This is still scarry. Too many variables and not enough safety nets.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165139 is a reply to message #165121] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 07:46 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Bruce,
The HHO generator is not producing to "run" the coach, it is I guess the word is fortifying the fuel to burn more efficiently. I am repeating what the tech I have been talking to said. They sure seem serious on the system, I told them that we were trying to do a demonstratable test with Chuck B. installing a system on the left coast and us doing one here. I told the guy that if we actually could demonstrate it worked and did help mileage that I would help them sell a pile of them ---but--- if it did not and we could not show the improvement they report they really would end up hating me! The unit resembles a high school science project though when we installed it the system started making bubbles and we could verify the system was doing something right away.
If this does work, a 30% increase in fuel economy would be a welcome thing-- if it does not work I will have an object to expend my frustrations on so it won;t be a total loss so lets try. Hey and if anyone else wants to get in on the test, just call them up, tell them you are throwing in on the real world test and pick up a "double kit"-- for big block V8 operation. Install is not tough in fact I was sort of let down after getting it all in-- thought there would be more to it.
Yea, it might be on the dangerous side but isn't most things we want to do! Besides, I have a Fire Fight SS100 remote AFFF foam fire suppression system in the engine compartment so if we do have a problem I want to have a video camera to see what happens! Living on the edge is just a state of mind!!
Anyway, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, Someone needs to go at this idea, it's better than just taking the transportation cost we're facing and being aerodynamic to 58 MPH, we just may see a real pickup in economy at those lower speeds.
Visit the daily pose while we do these tests, Chuck Botts may be doing a talk on his system at the Casa DeFruita rally, I'll be there to so we will be able to compare notes. It might just be a fun talk
Jim Bounds
-----------------------
________________________________
From: Michael <radioactive626@msn.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator
Bruce Hart wrote on Mon, 02 April 2012 23:04
> To produce that much hydrogen (TO PRODUCE HOW MUCH HYDROGEN MEANING) it would take a substantial amount of amps,
> more than the 20 amps it claims (My System I think draws 15 amps it maybe 20 but I'm guessing it was 15). This could over work the existing
> alternator and cause a premature failure in the alternator.
> Any wisp of cloud (what cloud?) is most likely water droplets generated by the generator,
> hydrogen it's self is invisible.
> Two items I see that would be a must is a flash back arrestor and a bubbler
> to prevent backfires from igniting the hydrogen in the generator (agreed my bubbler cap blew off with the hydrogen explosion never to be found again).
> I am in favor of a hydrogen generator and will pursue one after I get my
> coach useable for dry camping.
> I have made hydrogen generator for my 1997 Chevy truck but was unable to
> get past the electronics to see a gain in mileage.
> My generator used plates that were 3 stacks of 6 cells 5"x5" and it took
> 45 amps to produce 3 litters of hho gas. (I don't know the rating of mine, but I do recall how important the quality of the plates are, the system I use is made in the USA, I remember that point exactly large plates are important, but the quality of the plates is important as well)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Just to start a new thread - we were talking about this on the Gas Tank
> > thread. Jim Bounds has installed a hydrogen generator on an owner's coach.
> > The devices is from <http://mileageshop.com/mileage-saver-double-unit>.
> > It uses water, potassium hydroxide, and electricity to make HHO that is
> > plumbed into the air cleaner of the car.
> >
> >
> > Larry Davick
> > Fremont, California
> > The Mystery Machine
> > '76 (ish) Palm Beach
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165142 is a reply to message #165139] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 08:25 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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The first step is to demonstrate an improvement. The second step is to figure >why< there was an improvement. Until some of the basic laws of physics are repealed, it will take more energy to seperate the two gasses than you will get from burning them. But... if the seperation energy comes from a source that is normally wasted, you've recovered some of it, which is a gain. Also, if the stuff makes the burn more efficient, thereby again capturing wasted eneregy, it's worth it >and< it's worth investigating how it does so in hopes of a less expensive way of obtaining the more efficient burn.
I'll give you an analogy of the possible situation: In my field of endeavor, there are several companies who sell outrageously expensive cable for loudspeakers and connections, for which they make incredible claims. There are many anecdotal instances where there was improvement using these things. However, when we chase down the anecdotes, we find that the 'gee-whiz' cable replaced a pair of 22 guage wires ior a poor connection. Replacing these with #6 or #8 stranded copper gets the same result - as proved in double - blind testing by the I.E.E.E. The anecdotal reporter wasn't lying, s/he really did hear improvement. Just not necessarily from the high dollar aspect of the wire.
There's also a 'placebo' effect, but I doubt it runs to a 30% increase. If I hang several hundred bux of stuff on my coach for mileage, I'm likely either consciously or unconsciously to drive like a li'l ol' lady, thereby increasing the mileage while I watch the new stuff. Now, I >know< I can increase by a third - I've done it - but in my normal operation I don't do it.
I await your results with baited gas tank!!
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator
Bruce,
The HHO generator is not producing to "run" the coach, it is I guess the word is fortifying the fuel to burn more efficiently. I am repeating what the tech I have been talking to said. They sure seem serious on the system, I told them that we were trying to do a demonstratable test with Chuck B. installing a system on the left coast and us doing one here. I told the guy that if we actually could demonstrate it worked and did help mileage that I would help them sell a pile of them ---but--- if it did not and we could not show the improvement they report they really would end up hating me! The unit resembles a high school science project though when we installed it the system started making bubbles and we could verify the system was doing something right...
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165143 is a reply to message #165139] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 08:40 |
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Ken Rose showed the Classics how to do this at a rally tech session in
Raine, Louisiana a couple of years ago. It was very interesting and we
could see it actually working while installed on his SUV.
It does work.
bdub
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Jim Bounds
The HHO generator is not producing to "run" the coach, it is I guess the
word is fortifying the fuel to burn more efficiently. I am repeating what
the tech I have been talking to said. They sure seem serious on the system,
I told them that we were trying to do a demonstratable test with Chuck B.
installing a system on the left coast and us doing one here. I told the guy
that if we actually could demonstrate it worked and did help mileage that I
would help them sell a pile of them ---but--- if it did not and we could not
show the improvement they report they really would end up hating me!
...snip....
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165149 is a reply to message #165139] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 09:11 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jim,
What was the "guys" response to:
"I told the guy that if we actually could demonstrate it worked and did help
mileage that I would help them sell a pile of them ---but--- if it did not
and we could not show the improvement they report they really would end up
hating me!"
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Bounds
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 7:46 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator
Bruce,
The HHO generator is not producing to "run" the coach, it is I guess the
word is fortifying the fuel to burn more efficiently. I am repeating what
the tech I have been talking to said. They sure seem serious on the system,
I told them that we were trying to do a demonstratable test with Chuck B.
installing a system on the left coast and us doing one here. I told the guy
that if we actually could demonstrate it worked and did help mileage that I
would help them sell a pile of them ---but--- if it did not and we could not
show the improvement they report they really would end up hating me! The
unit resembles a high school science project though when we installed it the
system started making bubbles and we could verify the system was doing
something right away.
If this does work, a 30% increase in fuel economy would be a welcome thing--
if it does not work I will have an object to expend my frustrations on so it
won;t be a total loss so lets try. Hey and if anyone else wants to get in
on the test, just call them up, tell them you are throwing in on the real
world test and pick up a "double kit"-- for big block V8 operation. Install
is not tough in fact I was sort of let down after getting it all in--
thought there would be more to it.
Yea, it might be on the dangerous side but isn't most things we want to do!
Besides, I have a Fire Fight SS100 remote AFFF foam fire suppression system
in the engine compartment so if we do have a problem I want to have a video
camera to see what happens! Living on the edge is just a state of mind!!
Anyway, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, Someone needs to go
at this idea, it's better than just taking the transportation cost we're
facing and being aerodynamic to 58 MPH, we just may see a real pickup in
economy at those lower speeds.
Visit the daily pose while we do these tests, Chuck Botts may be doing a
talk on his system at the Casa DeFruita rally, I'll be there to so we will
be able to compare notes. It might just be a fun talk
Jim Bounds
-----------------------
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165151 is a reply to message #165085] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 09:17 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jeff at Alex Sirum took a stab at this 3 or 4 years ago. I don't think it got very far. I don't think he solved the delivery issue. Obviously you could produce the hydrogen, that's middle school science, and force it along to where you want it, but in my recollection it wasn't particularly useful in igniting when you wanted it. I don't think he even got it to the road test stage. I moved from FL right about the time he was fiddling with it, but since he never mentioned it again, I'd say it was dead and buried.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165163 is a reply to message #165135] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 10:22 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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| skip2 wrote on Tue, 03 April 2012 06:15 |
Remember what was in the Hindenberg?
Another thought to ponder has anyone ever had a battery explode in a vehicle and seen the damage. This is still scarry. Too many variables and not enough safety nets.
Skip
|
I think you summed up the exact reason why people are afraid of Hydrogen. I nicknamed my Mercedes the Hindenburg after the explosion! lol
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165166 is a reply to message #165085] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 10:28 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Oh it was mentioned but to make it clearer. The Hydrogen isn't the fuel for the vehicle. It just allows the fuel to burn more easily. The equipment does work in making hydrogen I learned that the hard way. The real world benefits vs marketing I think is the only barrier. 15-20 amps is a lot of draw. And the power to produce that has to come from some where. Just that alone would waste fuel, so I'm guessing 30% gains maybe true at the engine, but subtracting the power to use the system I'd think the gains would be far less then advertised.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165170 is a reply to message #165151] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 10:43 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jim B,
Your right HHO is not the primary energy source but an additive to help
burn the gas vapor more efficiently.
I have been involved with this for the last two years reading, studying
what other have done and, building my own unit.
Safety has to be #1 on the list. You do not want to store hydrogen, but use
it as you make it:
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktla-lake-view-terrace-explosion,0,4361527.story
Only produces HHO when engine is running. Connect solenoid to oil
pressure switch.
intake manifold.jpg<http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=434.0;attach=334>
right side of manifold is missing from back fire.
Every HHO kit needs someway to scrub the vapors of any residual catalyst
that is produced in the HHO vapors:
MAF 1.JPG<http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=432.0;attach=330>
This is very destructive to aluminum engine parts. Recommendation here is
would be to use two bubblers.
It takes a lot of amperage to produce 3 to 4 liters of HHO to the point
that it could but a sizable load on the alternator.
We are very fortunate in that there is a lot of room up front to fit a HHO
generator with the accompanying devices.
Those of us with a carburetor have the best chance to see improvement with
the HHO.
I believe it is doable and will attempt to install one myself in the next
year.
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Jeremy <jtknezek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jeff at Alex Sirum took a stab at this 3 or 4 years ago. I don't think it
> got very far. I don't think he solved the delivery issue. Obviously you
> could produce the hydrogen, that's middle school science, and force it
> along to where you want it, but in my recollection it wasn't particularly
> useful in igniting when you wanted it. I don't think he even got it to the
> road test stage. I moved from FL right about the time he was fiddling with
> it, but since he never mentioned it again, I'd say it was dead and buried.
> --
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Knezek
> 1976 Glenbrook
> Birmingham, AL
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hydrogen Generator [message #165171 is a reply to message #165135] |
Tue, 03 April 2012 10:45 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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| skip2 wrote on Tue, 03 April 2012 06:15 |
Remember what was in the Hindenberg?
....
Skip
|
The Hindenburg fire was caused by the aluminum and iron filled paint on the canvas of the skin. that was the cause of the big orange flame. Hydrogen is almost invisible when it burns, Iron soaked canvas, burns nice and orange.
Also the Hydrogen most likely dissipated quickly and had little effect on the fire.
As far as hydrogen generators, yea, high school kids thinking they are doing something but no one can prove it works.
It's a simple test.
Put one on an engine on a dyno, crank it up and see what happens.
If nothing changes, then it does nothing.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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