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| [GMCnet] Wireless air controller [message #160776] |
Sat, 18 February 2012 09:42  |
Gerald Work
Messages: 102
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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hi Rob,
I think we are in significant agreement, but may be drawing somewhat different conclusions. Likely the original engineers felt it necessary to add the auto ride height leveling because rear ride height influences front ride height so much and front ride height effects every thing about how well/safely the coach drives. They would not have wanted someone to jump into a coach that had been sitting for months (leaking air from all those fittings, valves, bags, etc.), or which had been leveled at a camp site and take off down the road without reestablishing proper rear ride height. They took several bites at the apple trying to come up with a system that would work well and automatically. The early versions had problems from the get go. The final version which did away with air line valves, air tanks, air pressure controlled compressors, used electro-mechanical ride height sensors instead of the initial mechanical RHSs, and controlled everything with solenoids and much short
er air line runs apparently worked far better.
Now index forward 40 years of banging down the road, components failing, fittings/bags leaking, countless hands "adjusting" and "fixing" things, multiple kinds of rear air bag systems being installed on different coaches and the world of auto ride height gets a bit more problematic. Yes, one can make the original systems work properly with enough smart restoration, but I simply suggest each owner assess for themselves whether it is better/easier/more reliable to replace all those problematic components with something much simpler which works really well and puts their normally loaded coach at the proper ride height with the push of one button no matter where it started out or why and no matter what kinds of air bags are now fitted.
Radically alter the weight balance in the coach and, obviously it makes sense to check to make sure the bag pressure is still correct to establish proper ride height. But, for the vast majority of owners and the vast majority of driving/loading situations I think you can set the required air bag pressure once and enjoy the ease and simplicity of pushing one button to go down the road, another to automatically drop down to dump and a third to raise the rear end while in slow city driving to keep the rear end from dragging. It sure is compelling for me.
Cheers. See you at GMCWS
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
Http://jerrywork.com
................
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:19:42 -0600
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Message-ID: <CEB24310880E49259DC11358B89F0BCD@AcerLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Oops,
Somehow the message below got sent before I was finished.
I'll try again.
Jerry,
I am not questioning what you have stated regarding YOUR coach.
However, there are a couple of things that people should consider regarding
your recommendations.
The ride height valve arm is the mechanism that is adjusted to set the ride
height (Note the slot in the arm as seen in MM X-7525 Pg. 4-22 Figure 49 -
Height Control Valve - Item 23 Arm). If you remove it you will mess up the
setting when you reinstall it. I can tell you it is a PITA to get it right
again (which is why Dave Lenzi and Ken Henderson make adjustable links). I
would suggest to those of you who want to try Jerry's method that don't have
shut off valves on the bags. Remove the end of the link that connects the
ride height valve levers to the bogie arms.
This paragraph relates to the PowerLevel system. The system pump is set to
shut off at 140 psi and come on at around 100 psi (those numbers are from
memory and may not be quite right). The pressure in Double Trouble's bags
runs around 90 psi. The pressure in the tank will feed the bags and the pump
will not come on until the pressure in the tank drops below 100 psi. I have
no idea how much weight one would have to add to reduce the air pressure in
the tank to 100 psi.
The rear suspension has been bouncing around in my mind today and I realized
something. I think one of the reasons GMC installed the automatic ride
height system was because telling prospective customers that they had to
check and adjust how high the rear end was and adjust the amount of air
pressure to the air bags would have gone over like a lead balloon!
Regards,
Rob M.
.................
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air controller [message #160789 is a reply to message #160776] |
Sat, 18 February 2012 11:34  |
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Jerry,
You has stated well what I felt but couldn't state so well.
As I pointed out in my response to Rob, the amount of water (40 gallons or
empty) or, for that matter, 150-pound teenagers running back and forth
will make more of a difference in handling and ride height than a change
in fuel level or going around a big curve at highway speeds on the outside
of the crown in the road.
As most recall, there was the setting of "hold" which, in my mind, didn't
indicate a very dynamic situation. Now, "auto" is a different situation.
However, my real question would be how necessary is it to adjust while
driving unless loosing a couple of pounds of air pressure every 100 miles
is a concern. If that is a concern, then there's another problem that
needs to be addressed.
Honestly, I wish I had "upgraded" to this alternative system while owning
our coach, Silver Lady. Instead, I relied on the Schraders and the notched
stick I used for setting ride height every other fuel stop. More than once
I drug the tail because I had faulty pumps and solenoids.
Of course, the purists of the world will stick with the OEM system which,
by the way, includes a single airbag on each side and not the 2+2 systems
that seem to be so popular.
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
News and Web Editor, GMC Eastern States
http://www.gmceast.com
Sights to see and places to stay ¡©- -
Find or submit a GMCer recommendation.
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Work <glwork@me.com>
Reply-To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:42:44 -0700
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Subject: [GMCnet] Wireless air controller
>hi Rob,
>
>I think we are in significant agreement, but may be drawing somewhat
>different conclusions. Likely the original engineers felt it necessary
>to add the auto ride height leveling because rear ride height influences
>front ride height so much and front ride height effects every thing about
>how well/safely the coach drives. They would not have wanted someone to
>jump into a coach that had been sitting for months (leaking air from all
>those fittings, valves, bags, etc.), or which had been leveled at a camp
>site and take off down the road without reestablishing proper rear ride
>height. They took several bites at the apple trying to come up with a
>system that would work well and automatically. The early versions had
>problems from the get go. The final version which did away with air line
>valves, air tanks, air pressure controlled compressors, used
>electro-mechanical ride height sensors instead of the initial mechanical
>RHSs, and controlled everything with solenoids and much short
> er air line runs apparently worked far better.
>
>Now index forward 40 years of banging down the road, components failing,
>fittings/bags leaking, countless hands "adjusting" and "fixing" things,
>multiple kinds of rear air bag systems being installed on different
>coaches and the world of auto ride height gets a bit more problematic.
>Yes, one can make the original systems work properly with enough smart
>restoration, but I simply suggest each owner assess for themselves
>whether it is better/easier/more reliable to replace all those
>problematic components with something much simpler which works really
>well and puts their normally loaded coach at the proper ride height with
>the push of one button no matter where it started out or why and no
>matter what kinds of air bags are now fitted.
>
>Radically alter the weight balance in the coach and, obviously it makes
>sense to check to make sure the bag pressure is still correct to
>establish proper ride height. But, for the vast majority of owners and
>the vast majority of driving/loading situations I think you can set the
>required air bag pressure once and enjoy the ease and simplicity of
>pushing one button to go down the road, another to automatically drop
>down to dump and a third to raise the rear end while in slow city driving
>to keep the rear end from dragging. It sure is compelling for me.
>
>Cheers. See you at GMCWS
>
>Jerry
>
>Jerry Work
>The Dovetail Joint
>Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
>in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
>in historic Kerby, OR
>Http://jerrywork.com
>................
>Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:19:42 -0600
>From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
>Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system
>To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>Message-ID: <CEB24310880E49259DC11358B89F0BCD@AcerLaptop>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Oops,
>
>Somehow the message below got sent before I was finished.
>
>I'll try again.
>
>Jerry,
>
>I am not questioning what you have stated regarding YOUR coach.
>
>However, there are a couple of things that people should consider
>regarding
>your recommendations.
>
>The ride height valve arm is the mechanism that is adjusted to set the
>ride
>height (Note the slot in the arm as seen in MM X-7525 Pg. 4-22 Figure 49 -
>Height Control Valve - Item 23 Arm). If you remove it you will mess up the
>setting when you reinstall it. I can tell you it is a PITA to get it right
>again (which is why Dave Lenzi and Ken Henderson make adjustable links). I
>would suggest to those of you who want to try Jerry's method that don't
>have
>shut off valves on the bags. Remove the end of the link that connects the
>ride height valve levers to the bogie arms.
>
>This paragraph relates to the PowerLevel system. The system pump is set to
>shut off at 140 psi and come on at around 100 psi (those numbers are from
>memory and may not be quite right). The pressure in Double Trouble's bags
>runs around 90 psi. The pressure in the tank will feed the bags and the
>pump
>will not come on until the pressure in the tank drops below 100 psi. I
>have
>no idea how much weight one would have to add to reduce the air pressure
>in
>the tank to 100 psi.
>
>The rear suspension has been bouncing around in my mind today and I
>realized
>something. I think one of the reasons GMC installed the automatic ride
>height system was because telling prospective customers that they had to
>check and adjust how high the rear end was and adjust the amount of air
>pressure to the air bags would have gone over like a lead balloon!
>
>Regards,
>Rob M.
>.................
>_______________________________________________
>GMCnet mailing list
>Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air controller [message #160800 is a reply to message #160789] |
Sat, 18 February 2012 13:01 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""As most recall, there was the setting of "hold" which, in my mind, didn't
indicate a very dynamic situation. Now, "auto" is a different situation.
However, my real question would be how necessary is it to adjust while
driving unless loosing a couple of pounds of air pressure every 100 miles
is a concern. If that is a concern, then there's another problem that
needs to be addressed.
""
I always run my ELII in auto and it is very common for it to adjust to road camber. Not that it's normally a big factor but sometimes you will find a long stretch where the camber is screwed up and the coach will compensate. Also, my last trip from Michigan was plagued with strong winds the entire 2000 miles and I noticed the suspension pumped up the one side to try to straighten the coach out.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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