Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating
| How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159636] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 12:52  |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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In the recent muffler placement thread there was a comment that
"My O2 sensor is just after the header.
it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways."
What are the symptoms of sensor overheating? Mine sometimes seems erratic after running a while and I wonder if that might be the cause
Thanks
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159643 is a reply to message #159636] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 14:47  |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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| Neil wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 12:52 |
In the recent muffler placement thread there was a comment that
"My O2 sensor is just after the header.
it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways."
What are the symptoms of sensor overheating? Mine sometimes seems erratic after running a while and I wonder if that might be the cause
Thanks
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I have a LC1 Wide band O2 sensor.
It has an LED on it that tells you various things like, it's warming up, all ok and somethings amiss. The something amiss is a blink code that tells you what is going on
Mine says that it's probably too hot...
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159649 is a reply to message #159636] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 15:15 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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While some of the other responses indicate that wide band sensors may cause problems when hot. My experience with production sensors and production FI would indicate to look at the following first.
While things are clear to be heat related I suspect that there are some other issues at play here. O2 sensors are made to be HOT. in fact we want them to heat up as soon as possible.
The perfect spot is at the end of the header (closer to the combustion source if possible but with headers that's best). If O2 sensors are further away we even heat them electrically. ( they cool too much during idle and low
Speeds. Headers are worse because they lose some of the heat out the metal piping before the sensor.)
A couple of possible problems:
Mostly electrical
Ground
- If you have a ceramic coated header the may not be providing a proper ground for the sensor. The coating at the bung may be interfering with the sensor when things get hot and expand.
- The headers not properly grounding at the heads for the same reason and non conducting gaskets.
- The tail pipes may be grounding properly then move as they heat. ( the pipes are Mounted in rubber but sometimes touch ground)
- Some sensors use a ground wire and that may be poorly bonded to the chassis
- If You do not have a grounding sensor
You may need a grounded sensor to solve these problem
Connectors
-Poorly contacting connectors
-the O2 sensor itself is defective
Sensors come in 1, 2, 3, and 4 wires. You may need to upgrade to the one that works for you
1 wire grounds through the housing and exhaust
2 wire grounds through the grounding wire
3 wire grounds through a common wire to the O2 sensor heater.
4 wire which has separate grounds for sensor and heater
I would think that over heating and moving the O2 sensor is a highly unlikely solution especially if you have headers
Best Regards
John
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159678 is a reply to message #159636] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 22:03 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Neil wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 12:52 |
In the recent muffler placement thread there was a comment that
"My O2 sensor is just after the header.
it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways."
What are the symptoms of sensor overheating? Mine sometimes seems erratic after running a while and I wonder if that might be the cause
Thanks
|
I didn't see this thread and posted on the muffler placement thread. This is what I posted there and sorry for the double posting:
If you are talking about your narrow band O2 sensor, you do not want to move it back any further. If you have it just after the header that is about where it should be. With headers, normally you needed a heated O2 sensor in order to keep it hot enough because headers generally allows more heat to be given off. At idle, the O2 can get too cold and stop working until the engine is at higher RPMs. Also, you don't want to move the O2 too far down the stream because the delay in sensing mixture and resultant correction can cause some problems with fueling. Generally, the ECM is "timed" based on the O2 sensor being 7 - 12 inches from the exhaust ports. I believe you might have a different problem than your O2 getting too hot. Narrow Band O2 sensors do go bad so that is a possibility - sometimes getting what I call "lazy". A lazy O2 sensor does not switch between rich and lean very quickly and can cause longer periods of the mixture being either too rich or too lean. If you do not have a heated sensor then it is possible you need a heated sensor because of the headers. Grounds can be a problem with the sensor so that is also a possibility.
If you are talking about a WB O2 (not used to give feedback to the ECM) then that sensor should be placed further down the line because excessive heat can shorten the life of the sensor. The Narrow band and WB sensors work differently from each other.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159778 is a reply to message #159678] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 17:58 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Neil,
If the sensor is on the collector section, that is the correct area.
We were hired by Pertronix and under the direction of Joe Mondello, we
had to advise the idel location for them to install the bung on their
Headers.Once that was done, they varified that location a Dyno test
and paid us.
The Thorley wnatd me to show them were to put the bung also.
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Randy Van Winkle <rvanwin@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Neil wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 12:52
>> In the recent muffler placement thread there was a comment that
>>
>> "My O2 sensor is just after the header.
>> it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways."
>>
>> What are the symptoms of sensor overheating? Â Mine sometimes seems erratic after running a while and I wonder if that might be the cause
>>
>> Thanks
>
> I didn't see this thread and posted on the muffler placement thread. Â This is what I posted there and sorry for the double posting:
>
> If you are talking about your narrow band O2 sensor, you do not want to move it back any further. If you have it just after the header that is about where it should be. With headers, normally you needed a heated O2 sensor in order to keep it hot enough because headers generally allows more heat to be given off. At idle, the O2 can get too cold and stop working until the engine is at higher RPMs. Also, you don't want to move the O2 too far down the stream because the delay in sensing mixture and resultant correction can cause some problems with fueling. Generally, the ECM is "timed" based on the O2 sensor being 7 - 12 inches from the exhaust ports. I believe you might have a different problem than your O2 getting too hot. Narrow Band O2 sensors do go bad so that is a possibility - sometimes getting what I call "lazy". A lazy O2 sensor does not switch between rich and lean very quickly and can cause longer periods of the mixture being either too rich or too lean. If you do not
> Â have a heated sensor then it is possible you need a heated sensor because of the headers. Grounds can be a problem with the sensor so that is also a possibility.
>
> If you are talking about a WB O2 (not used to give feedback to the ECM) then that sensor should be placed further down the line because excessive heat can shorten the life of the sensor. The Narrow band and WB sensors work differently from each other.
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159839 is a reply to message #159778] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 00:36 |
Chuck Garton
Messages: 54
Registered: June 2006
Karma: 0
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Member |
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So, where do you put it?
Chuck Garton
1977 Kingsley 455
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Neil,
> If the sensor is on the collector section, that is the correct area.
> We were hired by Pertronix and under the direction of Joe Mondello, we
> had to advise the idel location for them to install the bung on their
> Headers.Once that was done, they varified that location a Dyno test
> and paid us.
> The Thorley wnatd me to show them were to put the bung also.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Randy Van Winkle <rvanwin@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Neil wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 12:52
>>> In the recent muffler placement thread there was a comment that
>>>
>>> "My O2 sensor is just after the header.
>>> it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways."
>>>
>>> What are the symptoms of sensor overheating? Mine sometimes seems erratic after running a while and I wonder if that might be the cause
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>> I didn't see this thread and posted on the muffler placement thread. This is what I posted there and sorry for the double posting:
>>
>> If you are talking about your narrow band O2 sensor, you do not want to move it back any further. If you have it just after the header that is about where it should be. With headers, normally you needed a heated O2 sensor in order to keep it hot enough because headers generally allows more heat to be given off. At idle, the O2 can get too cold and stop working until the engine is at higher RPMs. Also, you don't want to move the O2 too far down the stream because the delay in sensing mixture and resultant correction can cause some problems with fueling. Generally, the ECM is "timed" based on the O2 sensor being 7 - 12 inches from the exhaust ports. I believe you might have a different problem than your O2 getting too hot. Narrow Band O2 sensors do go bad so that is a possibility - sometimes getting what I call "lazy". A lazy O2 sensor does not switch between rich and lean very quickly and can cause longer periods of the mixture being either too rich or too lean. If you do not
>> have a heated sensor then it is possible you need a heated sensor because of the headers. Grounds can be a problem with the sensor so that is also a possibility.
>>
>> If you are talking about a WB O2 (not used to give feedback to the ECM) then that sensor should be placed further down the line because excessive heat can shorten the life of the sensor. The Narrow band and WB sensors work differently from each other.
>> --
>> Randy & Margie
>> '77 Eleganza II '403'
>> Battlefield, MO
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159840 is a reply to message #159769] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 01:42 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Looks like you are installing a WB-O2 sensor. I didn't see any installation instructions for this sensor. Many WB-O2 systems use a Bosch sensor. Generally, the specs say the WB sensor should not be put where temps will exceed 900 degrees F. For a Narrow Band, the best place is in the collector area as JimK says. However, I have EGT sensors in this location and they show temps run between 10000 to 12500 degrees F. Because of this, I mounted my WB sensor much further down to allow more cooling of the exhaust gas. Many have installed their WB sensors after the convergence of the y-pipe which gives a true overall view of AFR.
I trust you are not using this sensor to feed info to an ECM? I usually recommend using a narrow band for input to the ECM and the WB for help with understand AFR during WOT or lean cruise. Some modern day systems utilize WB sensors for controlling fuel exclusively but those ECMs are designed to operate that way.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159882 is a reply to message #159866] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 09:54 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Surbo wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 08:49 |
Randy wrote;
{ However, I have EGT sensors in this location and they show temps run between 10000 to 12500 degrees F. }
Wow...that should light up the afterburners !!!
Bob Drewes in SESD (where it is -2* and could use some of that heat)
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Oops! How did that extra zero get there - never happens with my pension checks. Should have been 1000 - 1250 which is still hotter that the 900 degrees F that most WB sensor specs call for.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: How do you know if an 02 Sensor is overheating [message #159931 is a reply to message #159636] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 16:14 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Neil wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 13:52 |
In the recent muffler placement thread there was a comment that
"My O2 sensor is just after the header.
it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways."
What are the symptoms of sensor overheating? Mine sometimes seems erratic after running a while and I wonder if that might be the cause
Thanks
|
I have been wondering about this.
The O2 sensors used for control are often screwed into the manifold. Running temperatures of 900°F are not at all uncommon. It takes about 450F just to get them to start switching right. Hence the HEGO (Heated .... ) That is all I would ever use if I were building another computer controlled engine.
Now, if you are talking about the confirmation (after Cat) sensor, these are often what we are calling wide band, they are somewhat temperature sensitive (iirc) but they are also very easily damaged or contaminated. When this happens, the output voltage seems to get unstable. We would run samples of the final exhaust for O2 against the sensor output and when the sensor came off curve, so note and change at the next service.
Unfortunately, my memory for the subject has played out about there.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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