Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM (Almost home and then BANG)
| TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155045] |
Sun, 01 January 2012 19:06  |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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We took our 26 from LA to Seacliff State Park (just below Santa Cruz) for a week.
It ran perfect on the way up. We are usually towing a trailer with bikes or sand cars, so with nothing on the back, a 3.70 final and a much worked on motor, it flys.
Some minor issues upon arrival. The refer, for example, had rust flakes on the burner that had to be cleaned out to work properly. All in all a good trouble free week.
The return was great. Down 101. Accelerated up hills, even with AC on (yes, it was hot outside)
One block from the the left turn to home and BANG and the left front side of the coach settled down a bit.
I nursed it home. No suspension action on the left front, everything ok on the right. I jacked it up, no visible (to my untrained eye) damage, shock not broken etc.
Can a torsion bar unload? That is kind of what it felt like. Thoughts? Opinions? Guesses? It sits lower and does not bounce on the left side.
I will ask Miguel to fix it, but can't raise him on cell today (good for him!)and would welcome any ideas.
Also - while camped for 6 days at Seacliff I got no less than 4 and as many as 6 inquiries a day about the GMC from the "what is it" to the "I always wanted one..."
Thanks to all
Neil
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155053 is a reply to message #155045] |
Sun, 01 January 2012 19:43  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Neil,
Sounds like the torsion bar may have rotated in the lower control arm socket.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Martin
We took our 26 from LA to Seacliff State Park (just below Santa Cruz) for a week.
It ran perfect on the way up. We are usually towing a trailer with bikes or sand cars, so with nothing on the back, a 3.70 final and
a much worked on motor, it flys.
Some minor issues upon arrival. The refer, for example, had rust flakes on the burner that had to be cleaned out to work properly.
All in all a good trouble free week.
The return was great. Down 101. Accelerated up hills, even with AC on (yes, it was hot outside)
One block from the the left turn to home and BANG and the left front side of the coach settled down a bit.
I nursed it home. No suspension action on the left front, everything ok on the right. I jacked it up, no visible (to my untrained
eye) damage, shock not broken etc.
Can a torsion bar unload? That is kind of what it felt like. Thoughts? Opinions? Guesses? It sits lower and does not bounce on the
left side.
I will ask Miguel to fix it, but can't raise him on cell today (good for him!)and would welcome any ideas.
Also - while camped for 6 days at Seacliff I got no less than 4 and as many as 6 inquiries a day about the GMC from the "what is it"
to the "I always wanted one..."
Thanks to all
Neil
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155056 is a reply to message #155045] |
Sun, 01 January 2012 20:30 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Neil,
It sounds to me like you've just experienced the torsion bar rotating in
the lower A-arm socket:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5971
I've also had the Torsion Bar come out of the pork chop, giving the same
effect, but if you haven't had the TB out, the rotation seems more likely.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Neil Martin wrote:
>
> ...
> One block from the the left turn to home and BANG and the left front side
> of the coach settled down a bit.
>
> I nursed it home. No suspension action on the left front, everything ok
> on the right. I jacked it up, no visible (to my untrained eye) damage,
> shock not broken etc.
>
> Can a torsion bar unload? That is kind of what it felt like. Thoughts?
> Opinions? Guesses? It sits lower and does not bounce on the left side.
> ...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155058 is a reply to message #155057] |
Sun, 01 January 2012 21:11 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Neil,
If the TB is twisted in the A-arm, the current fix is to get a Steve
Ferguson rebuilt A-arm from JimK. If you have a TB tool, it's not a bad
home repair, but count on spending all day under the coach, including
resetting ride height after the installation.
I have an alternative idea, but haven't tried it: 1. Remove the TB
(you'll probably have to rotate it opposite the dislocation to remove it
from the A-arm socket). 2. Move the #4 cross member (the one the pork
chops are in) aft 2 inches (3 each 3/8" bolts through the web of each
chassis side rail). 3. Insert a 2" spacer (1" pipe?) into the A-arm
socket. 4. Re-install & adjust the TB.
The idea of that is to move the 1-1/8" long hex on the TB out of the
damaged area of the A-arm socket into an area which is undamaged and is
reinforced by the vertical portion of the A-arm bracket holding the socket.
As I said, I haven't tried this, but if the relatively weak area where my
damage occurred was strong enough to last 35 years, that new, stronger,
area should last a few more. Considering the simplicity (no ball joint &
A-arm removal) and cost, I'd certainly give it a try.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Neil Martin wrote:
>
>
> Thanks to Ken and Rob,
>
> What is the Rx?
>
> Is it a fix at home kind of thing or ?
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155066 is a reply to message #155045] |
Sun, 01 January 2012 23:25 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Neil,
You don't need a TB tool, if the control arm is allowed to swing down to a 5 o'clock position, the tension will be removed from the TB. That's how JK said I could do it and it worked great.
If you lube the pork chop adjuster and put back in the same position you'll be close to the height. You will need the TB tool to make adjustments. Although I have seen mechanics at dealers raise the truck up off the ground, and make the adjustment without TB tools (I'm not saying to do what the dealer mechanic did).
Don't forget the right side, unless previously reinforced, it's probably close to doing the same thing.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155068 is a reply to message #155066] |
Mon, 02 January 2012 00:34 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Neil,
knowing Migil, he will come over to your place and replace it with the
arms that Steve Ferguson does for us.
There are people that know more about who is doing what for us, but I
know Steve is still doing them as I will have one sent down if he
needs them.
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Adrien Genesoto <fixman54@syix.com> wrote:
>
>
> Neil,
>
> You don't need a TB tool, if the control arm is allowed to swing down to a 5 o'clock position, the tension will be removed from the TB. That's how JK said I could do it and it worked great.
>
> If you lube the pork chop adjuster and put back in the same position you'll be close to the height. You will need the TB tool to make adjustments. Although I have seen mechanics at dealers raise the truck up off the ground, and make the adjustment without TB tools (I'm not saying to do what the dealer mechanic did).
>
> Don't forget the right side, unless previously reinforced, it's probably close to doing the same thing.
> --
> Adrien
> 75 Glenbrook
> Yuba City,Ca.
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155208 is a reply to message #155058] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 09:50 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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has this problem been resolved?
interesting that this is a TB problem, we all face, and not a one-ton
problem.
so---- loading is not the problem, it is wear and tear like SteveF said.
and
it is a long-term problem, not something new...
we need to watch the ride height, and restore the lower control arms using
the Ont-ton , or the SteveF rebuilds.
gene
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Neil,
>
> If the TB is twisted in the A-arm, the current fix is to get a Steve
> Ferguson rebuilt A-arm from JimK. If you have a TB tool, it's not a bad
> home repair, but count on spending all day under the coach, including
> resetting ride height after the installation.
>
> I have an alternative idea, but haven't tried it: 1. Remove the TB
> (you'll probably have to rotate it opposite the dislocation to remove it
> from the A-arm socket). 2. Move the #4 cross member (the one the pork
> chops are in) aft 2 inches (3 each 3/8" bolts through the web of each
> chassis side rail). 3. Insert a 2" spacer (1" pipe?) into the A-arm
> socket. 4. Re-install & adjust the TB.
>
> The idea of that is to move the 1-1/8" long hex on the TB out of the
> damaged area of the A-arm socket into an area which is undamaged and is
> reinforced by the vertical portion of the A-arm bracket holding the socket.
>
> As I said, I haven't tried this, but if the relatively weak area where my
> damage occurred was strong enough to last 35 years, that new, stronger,
> area should last a few more. Considering the simplicity (no ball joint &
> A-arm removal) and cost, I'd certainly give it a try.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Neil Martin wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks to Ken and Rob,
> >
> > What is the Rx?
> >
> > Is it a fix at home kind of thing or ?
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155210 is a reply to message #155208] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 10:02 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
Miguel is going to come over this coming weekend and we will take a looksee.
Coach is sitting sad and droopy on the driver's side.
We feel very lucky to have completed a 760 mile trip and have this problem only a mile from home.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155235 is a reply to message #155208] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 12:30 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""interesting that this is a TB problem, we all face, and not a one-ton
problem.
so---- loading is not the problem, it is wear and tear like SteveF said.
and
it is a long-term problem, not something new...
we need to watch the ride height, and restore the lower control arms using
the Ont-ton , or the SteveF rebuilds.
gene
""
This will be interesting. I have never heard of this failure before. I have heard of a torsion bar now and then but it seems to be a fairly robust system in the scheme of things.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155323 is a reply to message #155291] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 23:17 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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This problem, if it is a socket problem has been around for at least
12 years as it happened on my coach after 500,000 miles.
Some have only put on 100,000 and had the same problem.
When your in the business, we get feedback on all kind of filers and
what customers to watch out for , and why.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Neil,
>
> Just wondering, do you have spacers on your front wheels?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil Martin
>
> Gene,
>
> Miguel is going to come over this coming weekend and we will take a looksee.
>
> Coach is sitting sad and droopy on the driver's side.
>
> We feel very lucky to have completed a 760 mile trip and have this problem only a mile from home.
> --
> Neil
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155324 is a reply to message #155323] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 23:35 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
The pictures that Ken published on the Photo Site showed that the problem he had was caused by the socket.
I am aware that it is a known problem and both my Avions have reinforced lower control arms on them.
Double Trouble's came directly from Steve F., I modified The Blue Streaks by copying his method (with his blessing) here in
Australia.
The lower control arms on the GMC are levers. One end of the lever is fixed to the frame; the other end of the lever is the tire
sitting on the ground. Since both the 1 ton front end mod and the spacers move the front wheels outward about 2 inches the length of
the lever is increased. Therefore the force that is applied to the lower control arm by the torsion bar must be increased to
maintain the same ride height. If I've got this wrong I'm happy to learn why.
I asked Neil if he had wheel spacers as a matter of interest. I was not saying that installing the spacers or the one ton front end
will cause socket failure in any way shape or form.
I'm sorry but I am confused by and don't understand the statement below or how it relates to my question about spacers:
"When your in the business, we get feedback on all kind of filers and what customers to watch out for, and why."
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kanomata
This problem, if it is a socket problem has been around for at least
12 years as it happened on my coach after 500,000 miles.
Some have only put on 100,000 and had the same problem.
When your in the business, we get feedback on all kind of filers and
what customers to watch out for , and why.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Neil,
>
> Just wondering, do you have spacers on your front wheels?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
Jim
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155329 is a reply to message #155208] |
Wed, 04 January 2012 06:04 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gene, the wear and tear is caused by a number of things. I do not know all
of them, but I do know that worn bushings, both in the control arms and the
shock mounts, limits the ability of the suspension components to "float" on
the cushion those bushings are designed to provide. Combine that with
overloading of the front suspension, incorrect ride height settings, and
the torsion bar sockets really take a beating. Now, add 40 years of age
and use to the equation.
If for any reason any GMCer removes those lower control arms, do not
reinstall them without reenforcing the TB socket. Cheap insurance.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:50 AM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> has this problem been resolved?
>
> interesting that this is a TB problem, we all face, and not a one-ton
> problem.
> so---- loading is not the problem, it is wear and tear like SteveF said.
> and
> it is a long-term problem, not something new...
>
> we need to watch the ride height, and restore the lower control arms using
> the Ont-ton , or the SteveF rebuilds.
>
> gene
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net
> >wrote:
>
> > Neil,
> >
> > If the TB is twisted in the A-arm, the current fix is to get a Steve
> > Ferguson rebuilt A-arm from JimK. If you have a TB tool, it's not a bad
> > home repair, but count on spending all day under the coach, including
> > resetting ride height after the installation.
> >
> > I have an alternative idea, but haven't tried it: 1. Remove the TB
> > (you'll probably have to rotate it opposite the dislocation to remove it
> > from the A-arm socket). 2. Move the #4 cross member (the one the pork
> > chops are in) aft 2 inches (3 each 3/8" bolts through the web of each
> > chassis side rail). 3. Insert a 2" spacer (1" pipe?) into the A-arm
> > socket. 4. Re-install & adjust the TB.
> >
> > The idea of that is to move the 1-1/8" long hex on the TB out of the
> > damaged area of the A-arm socket into an area which is undamaged and is
> > reinforced by the vertical portion of the A-arm bracket holding the
> socket.
> >
> > As I said, I haven't tried this, but if the relatively weak area where my
> > damage occurred was strong enough to last 35 years, that new, stronger,
> > area should last a few more. Considering the simplicity (no ball joint &
> > A-arm removal) and cost, I'd certainly give it a try.
> >
> > Ken H.
> > Americus, GA
> > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Neil Martin wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks to Ken and Rob,
> > >
> > > What is the Rx?
> > >
> > > Is it a fix at home kind of thing or ?
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #155343 is a reply to message #155291] |
Wed, 04 January 2012 09:20 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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[quote title=Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 03 January 2012 19:00]Neil,
Just wondering, do you have spacers on your front wheels?
Regards,
Rob M.
Rob - no - it is a stock front end. Handled just fine. Miguel set the ride hight when I purchased it 7 or so years ago.
Thanks for your continuing interest.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #156699 is a reply to message #155045] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 17:44 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM
The torsion bar moved forward (how I don't know) amd slipped in the porkchop.
Ruined the porkchop.
I'll post a picture later today
Looks like an easy fix.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #156771 is a reply to message #156699] |
Sun, 15 January 2012 09:59 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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That is usually caused by worn lower a-frame bushings. When the vehicle accelerates the a-frame moves forward slightly pulling on the bar, pulling the bar slightly out of the pork chop. On deceleration the a-frame returns to the rear, but the bar doesn't. It slips instead in the a-frame socket. Over a period of time and many, many cycles the bar can come out.
The real solution is to replace the lower a-frame bushings. But in the interim, on re-installation do NOT lubricate the pork chop end of the bar. Thoroughly clean and lubricate the a-frame end of the torsion bar with anti-sieze so it can slip there if necessary.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] TRIP REPORT AND A PROBLEM [message #156779 is a reply to message #156771] |
Sun, 15 January 2012 10:47 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We will start inspecting the location of the torsion bar,which is
easily done visually.
The problems with the poping on the A frame socket I have experianced
(6) were all without any wheel spacer.
All the people with the new HD and the Hubler front can prepare for
the axel joints to start developing problems.
Our Hubler HD unit we sold about 2 years ago and around 25,000 miles
developed a vibration problem.
We sent up another set to him to replace.
These NEW axel joints are the RED Chinese produced units.
Again I will say, "the Chinese should stick to cooking".
I realize defective parts come from all over the world, there is a
differance between Tiwan China, Mainland China(RED),Koria, and Japan.
I am seeing that the standard axel sets rebuilt here is more than
adiquet for most of the owners.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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