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| [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153456] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 16:09  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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It's with some trepidation that I report having installed new spark plugs
in HER '99 Honda CRV today. I fear I'll be severely ostracized because of
my chintzy ways. You see, instead of spending $50 or so for some of those
double platinum iridium triple irradiated $12+ each plugs, I bought 4 for
$7.66 at Auto Zone. :-(
Thing is, the NGK's that I put back in were identical to those the factory
installed, and I've never removed, 105000.3 miles ago. I kinda figured if
that thing was still firing on all 4 with 0.080" gaps, it might get sick &
die if I fed it that fancy stuff.
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153457 is a reply to message #153456] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 16:21  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Don't want to spoil her! I actually have a very "frugal" friend that maintains his Datsun 240Z very carefully, but then takes the old oil that he changed every 3000 miles out of the sportscar and uses it in his old Chevy Suburban. Funny thing is that the old beast's Chevy 350 seems to do just fine with that. I consider it a bit extreme, but to each his own.
I also have a set on NGKs that I need to put in my Scion xB as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer. I don't feel real good about leaving the plugs in for 100,000 miles as they might very well corrode into the aluminum head.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153460 is a reply to message #153456] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 16:30 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 18 December 2011 15:09 |
It's with some trepidation that I report having installed new spark plugs
in HER '99 Honda CRV today. I fear I'll be severely ostracized because of
my chintzy ways. You see, instead of spending $50 or so for some of those
double platinum iridium triple irradiated $12+ each plugs, I bought 4 for
$7.66 at Auto Zone. 
Thing is, the NGK's that I put back in were identical to those the factory
installed, and I've never removed, 105000.3 miles ago. I kinda figured if
that thing was still firing on all 4 with 0.080" gaps, it might get sick &
die if I fed it that fancy stuff.
Ken H.
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And to add insult to paying too much, I bet it runs just like it did before the install 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153466 is a reply to message #153460] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 17:28 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Come on, gentlemen.
Everyone KNOWS they run better with plugs made of expensium, unobtanium and vaporium.
<grins>
Dolph
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
On Dec 18, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 18 December 2011 15:09
>> It's with some trepidation that I report having installed new spark plugs
>> in HER '99 Honda CRV today. I fear I'll be severely ostracized because of
>> my chintzy ways. You see, instead of spending $50 or so for some of those
>> double platinum iridium triple irradiated $12+ each plugs, I bought 4 for
>> $7.66 at Auto Zone. :(
>>
>> Thing is, the NGK's that I put back in were identical to those the factory
>> installed, and I've never removed, 105000.3 miles ago. I kinda figured if
>> that thing was still firing on all 4 with 0.080" gaps, it might get sick &
>> die if I fed it that fancy stuff.
>>
>> Ken H.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
> And to add insult to paying too much, I bet it runs just like it did before the install :)
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153477 is a reply to message #153457] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 19:12 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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[. I don't feel real good about leaving the plugs in for 100,000 miles as they might very well corrode into the aluminum head.[/quote]
A good point I had to use an impact wrench to get the plugs out of a 4 runner that had 90,000 on them. Sure made me nervous when I couldn't budge them with a 1/2" breaker bar.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153478 is a reply to message #153477] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 19:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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I was a little uneasy about that when it occurred to me how long I'd
neglected them. But they came right out. Nickle anti-seize on them now
should work for the 200,000 mile swap.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:12 PM, <roy@gmcnet.org> wrote:
> ... I had to use an impact wrench to get the plugs out of a 4 runner that
> had 90,000 on them. Sure made me nervous when I couldn't budge them with a
> 1/2" breaker bar.
> --
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153518 is a reply to message #153456] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 23:13 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
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Just be thankful that it was a 4-cylinder. I recently changed the plugs & wires on our 97 Dodge Stratus ES w/ V-6 engine. To remove the inside 3 plugs & the wires, the top half of the intake manifold had to be removed. One application where platinum plugs are a necessity. Unfortunately, the slight miss wasn't corrected by the tune-up, so I had it looked at. Eventually I'll need to replace the coil pack as it's weak. If the wires were a bear, that pack will be worse... Even putting new radiator hoses on that car required a special tool to remove the clamps. I put SS screw-type hose clamps back on it instead.
Makes me long for my old 64 LeMans GTO or my 61 Caddy 4-door. Mileage sucked, but you could work on them easily...
Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
"DILLIGAF"
Lindale, Tx. 75771
903-881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153519 is a reply to message #153518] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 23:23 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Or the old Nissan NAPS 4. It was a 4 cylinder with those expensive ($48.00
ea) spark plugs. But it had 8 of them. The wire set was crazy money too.
Henry Ford was quoted as saying that with production line efficiencies,
that he could have given away model T fords and made a profit on the repair
parts that he sold to keep them running. Detroit is a crazy place, but they
don't have the only supply of it, by far.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Richard Brown
<wings77sporty@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> Just be thankful that it was a 4-cylinder. I recently changed the plugs &
> wires on our 97 Dodge Stratus ES w/ V-6 engine. To remove the inside 3
> plugs & the wires, the top half of the intake manifold had to be removed.
> One application where platinum plugs are a necessity. Unfortunately, the
> slight miss wasn't corrected by the tune-up, so I had it looked at.
> Eventually I'll need to replace the coil pack as it's weak. If the wires
> were a bear, that pack will be worse... Even putting new radiator hoses on
> that car required a special tool to remove the clamps. I put SS screw-type
> hose clamps back on it instead.
> Makes me long for my old 64 LeMans GTO or my 61 Caddy 4-door. Mileage
> sucked, but you could work on them easily...
>
> Richard & Carol Brown
>
> 1974 Eleganza SE
>
> "DILLIGAF"
>
> Lindale, Tx. 75771
>
> 903-881-0192
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153520 is a reply to message #153518] |
Sun, 18 December 2011 23:38 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Richard,
I have a 2003 V-6 Mazda Tribute here in Sydney and it developed a miss. I took it to the Mazda dealer and they wanted silly money to
put it on their computer to trouble shoot it. I have a mate that's a mechanic who works on modern vehicles and he told me for some
reason quite often the misses are caused by plugs / coils under the intake manifold and he recommended that I just bite the bullet
and change them all. When I checked the local Mazda dealer they wanted over $100 for each coil and $25 for each of the spark plugs.
I found a set of 6 coils on eBay for $75 bucks and plugs for less than half that price. Unfortunately the seller would not ship them
to Australia so I contacted my Mate in Knoxville (Chuck Boyd) and he forwarded them to me.
I had to go back to the dealer to buy the O-rings ($12 each!) that go between the intake manifold and the block and they asked me if
I wanted to buy the coils. I told them I got six for $75 from the USA. The parts guy was gob smacked!
It's been running smooth as a top for more than a year now.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Brown
Just be thankful that it was a 4-cylinder. I recently changed the plugs & wires on our 97 Dodge Stratus ES w/ V-6 engine. To remove
the inside 3 plugs & the wires, the top half of the intake manifold had to be removed. One application where platinum plugs are a
necessity. Unfortunately, the slight miss wasn't corrected by the tune-up, so I had it looked at. Eventually I'll need to replace
the coil pack as it's weak. If the wires were a bear, that pack will be worse... Even putting new radiator hoses on that car
required a special tool to remove the clamps. I put SS screw-type hose clamps back on it instead.
Makes me long for my old 64 LeMans GTO or my 61 Caddy 4-door. Mileage sucked, but you could work on them easily...
Richard
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153525 is a reply to message #153521] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 07:36 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Dan,
You're probably right -- the center electrodes were still above the
porcelain and the outers looked good as new. If I can find them (I WILL
still have them) maybe I'll put them back in when I replace the new ones.
:-)
Now if I could just work up some enthusiasm, and a few hours, for
replacing them on the S-10's 4.3L V-6, which does NOT have them sticking
straight up right in the middle of the engine compartment...
Ken H.
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Dan Gregg wrote:
>
> Ken, I think you just wasted your 7 bux, and change...
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153529 is a reply to message #153466] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 09:14 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The ride would be much smoother if you filled the tank with upsydasium.
Has anyone had any experience with those gap-less plugs, where the gap is molded into the plug body itself?
At first glance it sounds good because there is not electrode to move and change the gap size. Second thoughts wonder if a carbon track will develop and cause the plug to short and fail early.
Anyone try them, any thoughts??
DEC 19
The other day I ws sorting out the laundry and some white
breath mints rolled out. One of them had some numbers on
it. It read, "2376-185." I asked my son if it was important.
He said, "It's either check No. 2376 for $1.85 or check
No. 185 for $23.76." Then he shrugged and popped
it in his mouth.
Erma Bombeck
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153544 is a reply to message #153456] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 11:46 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 18 December 2011 14:09 |
Thing is, the NGK's that I put back in were identical to those the factory
installed, and I've never removed, 105000.3 miles ago. I kinda figured if
that thing was still firing on all 4 with 0.080" gaps, it might get sick &
die if I fed it that fancy stuff.
Ken H.
|
A general question on plugs in modern engines. Matt C may be able to help here since it is a Chrysler product.
I just got a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 L Hemi engine. The service manual says that the plugs need to be replaced at 36,000 miles. I think, but I am not sure that there are two plugs per cylinder. (all hidden under the plastic cover over the engine, as per modern methods).
Most cars today have plug change intervals of over 100K, including the alternative engine for the Grand Cherokee, the Pentastar V6. On that engine the plug change recommendation is something like 120K.
Any ideas why the Hemi is old school on it's plug change interval?
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153548 is a reply to message #153544] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 12:15 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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It may have more to do with the design of the head than it is with the
plugs. The worst thing that could happen in the plug changing arena is for
the plugs to become a permanent part of the engine as occasionally happens
with 100,000 mile change intervals. Sometimes it is a product of combustion
deposits kind of "welding" the tip of the plugs into the combustion
chamber, and other times it is the product of the bi-metallic exchange of
particles. (corrosion). Either way, when the attempt is made to remove
spark plugs, particularly from an engine at operating temperature, the
aluminum threads in the head often come out along with the plug. That has a
tendency to ruin your day, much like a broken exhaust manifold hold down
fastener will. You only had a tight plug before you started, and now you
have a ruined cylinder head or at least a major tear down and replace after
thread repairs (which if the engine is still under warranty comes out of
the dealership/corporate pocketbook.) Not a happy thought.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Rob Allen <profmail@wildblue.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 18 December 2011 14:09
> > Thing is, the NGK's that I put back in were identical to those the
> factory
> > installed, and I've never removed, 105000.3 miles ago. I kinda figured
> if
> > that thing was still firing on all 4 with 0.080" gaps, it might get sick
> &
> > die if I fed it that fancy stuff.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
>
> A general question on plugs in modern engines. Matt C may be able to help
> here since it is a Chrysler product.
>
> I just got a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 L Hemi engine. The
> service manual says that the plugs need to be replaced at 36,000 miles. I
> think, but I am not sure that there are two plugs per cylinder. (all hidden
> under the plastic cover over the engine, as per modern methods).
>
> Most cars today have plug change intervals of over 100K, including the
> alternative engine for the Grand Cherokee, the Pentastar V6. On that
> engine the plug change recommendation is something like 120K.
>
> Any ideas why the Hemi is old school on it's plug change interval?
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Allen
> former owner of '76 x-PB
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153553 is a reply to message #153544] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 13:09 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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[quote title=idrob wrote on Mon, 19 December 2011 12:46]A general question on plugs in modern engines. Matt C may be able to help here since it is a Chrysler product.
I just got a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 L Hemi engine. The service manual says that the plugs need to be replaced at 36,000 miles. I think, but I am not sure that there are two plugs per cylinder. (all hidden under the plastic cover over the engine, as per modern methods).
Most cars today have plug change intervals of over 100K, including the alternative engine for the Grand Cherokee, the Pentastar V6. On that engine the plug change recommendation is something like 120K.
Any ideas why the Hemi is old school on it's plug change interval?/quote]
Rob,
I know that some of the 5.7 are dual plug, I do not know if they all are. I know why. They are finally making some horsepower, and getting the fuel economy that they should, but if it does not do a clean burn when running in lean mode or it misfires at high load, the will make a HC spike and the emissions are shot. As to why the 36K plug change, probably because someone forgot to update the service interval. It is/was a Jeep/Truck engine and some stuff is still strange at Plymouth Road. The 1999 4.7 (out of production) engines would run a 500hr transmission test on the installed plugs.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153554 is a reply to message #153525] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 13:13 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 19 December 2011 07:36 |
Now if I could just work up some enthusiasm, and a few hours, for
replacing them on the S-10's 4.3L V-6, which does NOT have them sticking
straight up right in the middle of the engine compartment...
Ken H.
|
On 4.3 in the S-10, to change the plugs, put a socket on a long extension and go in through the wheel wells. Lift the flexible rubber and you can get to them. You will need a u-joint on only one plug that is near the steering shaft.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153563 is a reply to message #153554] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 15:19 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, Ken, I'll try that -- if I get the gumption together. :-)
I really think the rough running is because the O2 sensor needs changing,
but I'll wait 'til the rack's clear before replacing that.
Merry Christmas to you & Laurie,
Ken H.
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 19 December 2011 07:36
> > Now if I could just work up some enthusiasm, and a few hours, for
> > replacing them on the S-10's 4.3L V-6, which does NOT have them sticking
> > straight up right in the middle of the engine compartment...
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> On 4.3 in the S-10, to change the plugs, put a socket on a long extension
> and go in through the wheel wells. Lift the flexible rubber and you can
> get to them. You will need a u-joint on only one plug that is near the
> steering shaft.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153569 is a reply to message #153456] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 16:40 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Must be plug week. I changed out the Bosch Platinums in my 4.0 Jeep XJ yesterday for Champion Platinums ( as that is what I could find) as I had never changed them in the time 3+ years I had it so I had no idea how many miles. Good news is the engine physical from examining the pulled plugs was A+ to my eye at 154K. I didn't see much electrode wear, but I was more concerned about them being carboned into the head if I waited too long. No problems there. These seem to wear caps/rotors so I changed them out and used dielectric grease on everything. Biggest thing I found was corrosion at the coil to wire connection as I did check that. I didn't have a new wire but cleaned it up and used some D5 and dielectric grease. Runs better. Not that it was running bad, but I'm thinking that dirty coil connection was the biggest factor right at the get go. More of a PM so I don't have problems when its below zero. Plugs came gapped at about .045 and manual says .035, but with that tall electrode it's hard to bend down and would be at an angle, so I opted to leave at .045, which is about where the old ones were. This is sort of GMC related if you think of the XJ as a TOAD.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cheapskate [message #153573 is a reply to message #153571] |
Mon, 19 December 2011 16:59 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""I have always wondered about things like platinum sparkplugs - do they
really last like claims say they do?
""
They more or less do. They were developed for engines that were almost impossible to replace plugs on--like a couple of generations of Chrysler minivans.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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