Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » "Cold Weather" California Style (When Do We Get Concerned?)
| "Cold Weather" California Style [message #151910] |
Tue, 06 December 2011 13:38  |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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I know that some of you hardy folks from the North country laugh at we Californians when we talk about cold weather. I leave the coach plugged in. I can leave the water heater going, which raises the temperature in the bathroom. I have a on demand heater in the vented outside fridge closet. Right now we have the fridge running, also.
We were in the coach and it was 29 last night. Everything worked as expected this AM.
At what temperatures do "we" begin to think about winterizing?
Thanks in advance.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #151928 is a reply to message #151915] |
Tue, 06 December 2011 16:48  |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gary, PEX is good for about 10 freezings and the wall thickness get so
thin that it will crack, ask how I know.
Carleton
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Gary Worobec <gtw5@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I'm not worrying as much about freezing as when I got the coach. After we
> gutted it we installed PEX water lines on both the hot and cold sides. These
> can expand if they freeze whereas the OEM copper cracked or the soldered
> fittings blew off. I still drain the HW tank and the water pump. We've had
> it down to 18F where we live in SoCal with no issues. Our only real cold
> weather experience in the GMC while travelling has been at Joshua Tree where
> it got down to about 30F and one time in Sedona when it started to snow for
> a day or two. I know that is "mild" weather for all the mid-west and eastern
> GMC people.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Beckman" <gbeckman@pggp.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 11:38 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style
>
>
>>
>>
>> I know that some of you hardy folks from the North country laugh at we
>> Californians when we talk about cold weather. I leave the coach plugged
>> in. I can leave the water heater going, which raises the temperature in
>> the bathroom. I have a on demand heater in the vented outside fridge
>> closet. Right now we have the fridge running, also.
>>
>> We were in the coach and it was 29 last night. Everything worked as
>> expected this AM.
>>
>> At what temperatures do "we" begin to think about winterizing?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>> --
>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>> Best Wishes,
>> George
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #151935 is a reply to message #151928] |
Tue, 06 December 2011 17:38 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Hi Carleton, I've still got a few left. Kind of like the cat with 10 lives.
I thought you moved to AZ to get out of the cold.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carleton Douglas" <aecsdouglas@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style
Gary, PEX is good for about 10 freezings and the wall thickness get so
thin that it will crack, ask how I know.
Carleton
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Gary Worobec <gtw5@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I'm not worrying as much about freezing as when I got the coach. After we
> gutted it we installed PEX water lines on both the hot and cold sides.
> These
> can expand if they freeze whereas the OEM copper cracked or the soldered
> fittings blew off. I still drain the HW tank and the water pump. We've had
> it down to 18F where we live in SoCal with no issues. Our only real cold
> weather experience in the GMC while travelling has been at Joshua Tree
> where
> it got down to about 30F and one time in Sedona when it started to snow
> for
> a day or two. I know that is "mild" weather for all the mid-west and
> eastern
> GMC people.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Beckman" <gbeckman@pggp.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 11:38 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style
>
>
>>
>>
>> I know that some of you hardy folks from the North country laugh at we
>> Californians when we talk about cold weather. I leave the coach plugged
>> in. I can leave the water heater going, which raises the temperature in
>> the bathroom. I have a on demand heater in the vented outside fridge
>> closet. Right now we have the fridge running, also.
>>
>> We were in the coach and it was 29 last night. Everything worked as
>> expected this AM.
>>
>> At what temperatures do "we" begin to think about winterizing?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>> --
>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>> Best Wishes,
>> George
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #152134 is a reply to message #151930] |
Wed, 07 December 2011 23:56 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 06 December 2011 17:04 |
Ken,
Oh crap!
I completely forgot about the macerator on Double Trouble!
How would you keep it from getting damaged?
Regards,
Rob M.
|
First is to get as much water out of it as possible. That is why I drive from home to the airport with the black tank valve open. Then I close the the valve and open all of the water taps allowing the anti-freeze to run into black tank. The anti-freeze ends up in macerator. If there is enough you can briefly turn on the macerator and pump any standing anti-freeze out.
One person suggested that after filling the water lines with anti-freeze go ahead and blow out the lines again. That will put additional anti-freeze in the black tank and in the macerator. I have not done that but probably I should.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #152165 is a reply to message #152013] |
Thu, 08 December 2011 13:17 |
 |
WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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Senior Member |
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| Douglas Norton wrote on Wed, 07 December 2011 01:47 |
Lost my macerator in Ely NV a couple of years ago - froze and cracked the pump area so it sucked in air. The first thing to know is that the stuff in that area is not like water; it will freeze at a lower temp so it is safe. I have two solutions. one is a quart of antifreeze in an empty tank and run macerator 1 second to get it in the unit. Second is to add a bunch of salt - better salt water to a near empty tank and run macerator for a second. Last, I put a half amp lamp next to the pump and insulated the area and covered it with tape. I connect the bulb to the coach battery and make sure the charger is on or the solar system is working. If I had it to do over I would have put in a larger bulb of 1 amp since my solar system will cover that in winter if I do not leave it on more than a few days at a time. It helps to have an amper hour meter such as the Trimetric to monitor battery levels. I have put a thermostat controlled electric
heater in the coach in winter that worked down to 20 degrees or so in Boise - no macerator problem there with antifreze mixed with a few gallons of "water".
Do not forget to drain the city water inlet - I had that freeze a few years ago and crack a cap I had on the line. I now live in California where even an ounce of prevention is overlooked too often. Record freeze predicted for tonight - will not freeze the holding tank. It is half full with no antifreeze and the thermal mass will keep the macerator and anything connected to the holding tank at or above freezing for several sub freezing hours a day.
My 2 cents may not be worth that; but it may give Rob a sense of security depending on how cold the coach will be.
Doug Norton
________________________________
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style
Ken,
Oh crap!
I completely forgot about the macerator on Double Trouble!
How would you keep it from getting damaged?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
There is no insulation around the black tank and macerator if you have one installed.
Ken
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Doug, why did your macerator freeze if it was full of crap? Same reason mine froze both times the temp hit 12 degrees, in same week. I am not sure what "freezing" is for a macerator full of you know what but it is something above 12 degrees. Mine didn't crack the housing or anything but when I tried to use it, with ice in it, the impeller lost a tooth, or two. While living in the GMC there is not a lot one can do to keep it from freezing other than try to cover it with some kind of insulation. If you know it froze, don't try to use it until you know all of the ice is gone. As mine sits right now, it is completely empty of any fluid. If set up right they are easy to drain.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #152172 is a reply to message #152165] |
Thu, 08 December 2011 14:15 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Dec 8, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Dan Gregg wrote:
>
>
>
> Doug, why did your macerator freeze if it was full of crap? Same reason mine froze both times the temp hit 12 degrees, in same week. I am not sure what "freezing" is for a macerator full of you know what but it is something above 12 degrees. Mine didn't crack the housing or anything but when I tried to use it, with ice in it, the impeller lost a tooth, or two. While living in the GMC there is not a lot one can do to keep it from freezing other than try to cover it with some kind of insulation. If you know it froze, don't try to use it until you know all of the ice is gone. As mine sits right now, it is completely empty of any fluid. If set up right they are easy to drain.
> Dan
> --
If you are living in the GMC and are in freezing weather you can buy some 120 v. "heat tape" and wrap this around the macerator and the pipe leading from your holding tank to the macerator. Then wrap some fiberglas insulation around everything.
This will give out enough heat to keep things from freezing.
When we moved to Santa Fe in Nov. 1993 we had to live in the GMC for two months. At that time we didn't have a macerator but our valve and dump line would freeze. We had to wait until about 3 in the afternoon before the sun would warm things enough to dump. It would then refreeze during the night.
You can buy heat tape from Ace Hardware http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=1259053
and also at Home Depot, Lowes, and probably any hardware store.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #152416 is a reply to message #152165] |
Sat, 10 December 2011 13:16 |
Douglas Norton
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Sounds to me that it is time for Teri to come back to pull your mind away from the holding tank!
They put freeze plugs in blocks to prevent motor distruction when liquids in the block freeze. Perhaps some one should make after market freeze plugs for the macerator and drain pipe systems. I will buy a holding tank electric blanket if I plan on real cold camping.
When there are impurities in the fluid like anti-freze and waste, it usually becomes a slush before it becomes solid. That helps prevent damage from freezing even when it is freezing. However, I never believed it when they said "fine tobacco is it's own best filter" and I do not trust holding tank sludge not to freeze solid at some temperature. On a winter trp, my macerator impeller housing cracked to relieve pressure at 7 below zero. It was a three dog night - make that a three heater night in the GMC. We slept on the couch and had 1 gas and two electric heaters going. Next time we are out in the cold like that I will but a 60 watt bulb below the macerator and make an appointment with a psychiatrist.
________________________________
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style
*****
Doug, why did your macerator freeze if it was full of crap? Same reason mine froze both times the temp hit 12 degrees, in same week. I am not sure what "freezing" is for a macerator full of you know what but it is something above 12 degrees. Mine didn't crack the housing or anything but when I tried to use it, with ice in it, the impeller lost a tooth, or two. While living in the GMC there is not a lot one can do to keep it from freezing other than try to cover it with some kind of insulation. If you know it froze, don't try to use it until you know all of the ice is gone. As mine sits right now, it is completely empty of any fluid. If set up right they are easy to drain.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting
http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #152572 is a reply to message #152416] |
Sun, 11 December 2011 20:08 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Douglas Norton wrote on Sat, 10 December 2011 13:16 |
They put freeze plugs in blocks to prevent motor distruction when liquids in the block freeze. Perhaps some one should make after market freeze plugs for the macerator and drain pipe systems.
|
Well around here in regularly freezing Wisc I never heard of "freeze plugs" preventing motor destruction from freezing. Yes they would, sometimes, pop out if the engine froze but the damage was done. I always heard these were really ports used to hold the core in the proper position during casting and these ports would let the core sand out of the casting after it solidified.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] "Cold Weather" California Style [message #152574 is a reply to message #152572] |
Sun, 11 December 2011 20:13 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Steve,
You win today's GOT IT RIGHT prize!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug\
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Southworth
Well around here in regularly freezing Wisc I never heard of "freeze plugs" preventing motor destruction from freezing. Yes they
would, sometimes, pop out if the engine froze but the damage was done. I always heard these were really ports used to hold the core
in the proper position during casting and these ports would let the core sand out of the casting after it solidified.
--
Steve
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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