Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys.
| [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151417] |
Sat, 03 December 2011 08:38  |
Terry Skinner
Messages: 379
Registered: January 2004
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In the process of designing/building my new dash I have been trying to
figure out a "red light" that would flash in my eyes and get me to
look at the gauges. I have noted that after 6 or 7 hours of driving my
scan of instruments has diminished to once every 5 minutes or so and
my wife's scan has never existed. She is a product of modern
technology and the "engine check light". I have looked long and hard
at the digital gauge systems but prefer the 2" analog gauges. Old dog
and all that. I ran across a little magic box called, "Autometer
Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning System" and wonder if any of you had
experience with this unit and what your opinion is.
Thanks...........Terry
http://www.egauges.com/pdf/AutoMeter/856a.pdf
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151448 is a reply to message #151442] |
Sat, 03 December 2011 14:18  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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Big talk
Big talk
Won't happen;)
Gene
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On Dec 3, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Gene;
>
> Not for me. Really don't care about oil or tranny temps anyway.
> Plus it's gotten too expensive. Just want to gang all of the idiot
> lights together into one big one. Got too many other things I want to
> look at besides gauges.
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 9:57 AM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
>> digipanel
>>
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/chassis.html#digi
>>
>> tranny, oil, temp,batt
>> 4 on one warning light and alarm.(the essentials)
>> and
>> fits in the radio slot ;>)
>>
>> gene
>
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151461 is a reply to message #151430] |
Sat, 03 December 2011 17:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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My last two minivans have this feature. They have fukll guages, but if anything goes off 'normal' they DING and light a stupid light also. Great healp, I'm ready to put one in the GMC. I saved the engine in my SOB when a hose blew only because a bud was following me and called me on the cell.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode Norris
'76 Palm Beach
________________________________
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2011 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys.
I've never thought about this for the MH, but have thought about
something like this for my dune buggys for a long time. I've always
wanted something that would gang all of the idiot lights together into
one light that I would place either in the rollbar or hang below the
rollbar just above my line-of-sight that would let me know if there
was something wrong. This device will be something to look into.
Thanks for finding it.
On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Terry Skinner <gmcnut@gmail.com> wrote:
> I ran across a little magic box called, "Autometer
> Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning System" and wonder if any of you had
> experience with this unit and what your opinion is.
> Thanks...........Terry
>
> http://www.egauges.com/pdf/AutoMeter/856a.pdf
> Terry Skinner
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151503 is a reply to message #151417] |
Sun, 04 December 2011 00:15 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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For you guys with all of these gauges, I have often thought of another idiot light you need to add.
I hear over and over about people worrying about blowing a coolant hose or a major coolant leak. Why not add a 5 PSI pressure switch to the coolant system. When you start the coach the will be no pressure and the light will be on. When the coach gets up to temperature (and pressure) the light will go off and stay off until the coach cools down or a leak occurs. Most of us run a 9 PSI radiator cap so the entire cooling system should be pressurized at 9 PSI when running down the road. You could screw the sensor in to the hole in the intake manifold where the old TVS use to be. If you love your TVS and want to keep it, then the sensor could be "teed" into a heater hose.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151515 is a reply to message #151503] |
Sun, 04 December 2011 07:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Ken,
Before I go drill another hole in my new dash, tell me: Won't I have to be
sure to get the engine temp above 212*F to start to build that 5 psi? Or
is the pressure at the intake manifold higher than the system pressure
because of the coolant flow? IIRC, somebody measured it at the rear at 25
psi. I've never noticed the 9 psi "blowing off" when I open the radiator
cap -- unless the water's boiling.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> For you guys with all of these gauges, I have often thought of another
> idiot light you need to add...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151658 is a reply to message #151515] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 00:48 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 04 December 2011 07:51 |
Ken,
Before I go drill another hole in my new dash, tell me: Won't I have to be
sure to get the engine temp above 212*F to start to build that 5 psi? Or
is the pressure at the intake manifold higher than the system pressure
because of the coolant flow? IIRC, somebody measured it at the rear at 25
psi. I've never noticed the 9 psi "blowing off" when I open the radiator
cap -- unless the water's boiling.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
|
The cooling system as designed should never exceed the pressure of the installed radiator cap no mater what temperature you are at.
Water expands as it is heated. I do not know how much per degree. Just watch the levels in your overflow bottle on any normally operating water cooled vehicle. That is why there are usually two marks on it. Cold and hot. In order for the coolant to get to the overflow bottle, the cooling system had to reach and exceed radiator cap rating to force the excess into the bottle.
This also why we install expansion pressure tanks on hot water heating systems.
I can not buy whomever ever told you that the pressure is 25 PSI on the back of the manifold. Any excess pressure anywhere in the system will be reflected in the entire system. It is all hooked together by radiator and heater hoses. There could be a very marginal difference due to the water pump but you have seen that you have difficulty raising water with your small impeller pump through your heater core to expel any air in it. I can do it with my 4.25" impeller pump. I can also do it with lung power which is very low pressure.
This is why we are told do not open the radiator cap when hot. It is under pressure.
I threw out the idea for someone to think about. I chose a 5 PSI switch only because it is 1/2 of the normal GMC cooling system pressure rating. If you went to a 16 PSI cap (used with the aluminum radiator) then maybe a 10 PSI switch would be a better choice.
I am trying to detect coolant loss BEFORE the system over heats. If you let the system overheat to the point it is boiling out of the radiator, then the pressure will be back at radiator cap pressure due to the expansion when the steam generated.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151671 is a reply to message #151658] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 08:04 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Come on, Ken -- you're trying too hard to rattle my chain! Of course
there's "significant pressure" in the cooling system. The only time the
pressure will equalize throughout the system is when the engine's not
running. Otherwise, the water pump is taking the inlet water, at some
pressure between atmospheric and the radiator cap setting, and forcing it
through the heads all the way to the rear of the engine, perhaps through
the heater core and the house water heater, and back through the engine and
the radiator core. That don't happen without "significant pressure". 25
psi at the rear of the heads would not surprise me at all to force 30+ gpm
through all those restrictions -- it will be somewhat higher at the water
pump outlet. And basically none of that pressure is left when a bolus of
water returns to the passenger side radiator tank, else the radiator cap
would have to relieve that pressure as well as that developed by thermal
expansion of the water -- which IS distributed throughout the system.
My only point originally was to point out that placement of a pressure
sensor and its set point is not as simple as relating it to the radiator
cap pressure. Also, undercutting the value of a water pressure monitor is
the fact that if all the water drips out of the engine "over night", the
engine will will overheat and melt down without the water pressure sensor
ever sensing there's a problem.
The GMC's water level sensor isn't really such a bad device -- I really
should get mine working.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> ...
> I can not buy whomever ever told you that the pressure is 25 PSI on the
> back of the manifold. Any excess pressure anywhere in the system will be
> reflected in the entire system. It is all hooked together by radiator and
> heater hoses. There could be a very marginal difference due to the water
> pump but you have seen that you have difficulty raising water with your
> small impeller pump through your heater core to expel any air in it. I can
> do it with my 4.25" impeller pump. I can also do it with lung power which
> is very low pressure.
>
> This is why we are told do not open the radiator cap when hot. It is
> under pressure.
>
> I threw out the idea for someone to think about. I chose a 5 PSI switch
> only because it is 1/2 of the normal GMC cooling system pressure rating.
> If you went to a 16 PSI cap (used with the aluminum radiator) then maybe a
> 10 PSI switch would be a better choice.
>
> I am trying to detect coolant loss BEFORE the system over heats. If you
> let the system overheat to the point it is boiling out of the radiator,
> then the pressure will be back at radiator cap pressure due to the
> expansion when the steam generated.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151706 is a reply to message #151671] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 12:32 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Pressure difference is what between the input and output side of the water pump is what we are talking about here and not the overall pressure of the system which is determined by the radiator cap.
The only time you have any pressure difference is when you have a restriction to flow. There is only a minimal restriction to flow in the cooling system.
You have the bypass at the thermostat that is open all the time and the flow through the heater hoses to the heater and rear fresh water heater also wide open. When the thermostat is open you also have that. The GMC water pump is NOT designed to be a high pressure device. It is designed to be a volume or flow device. You can just look at the gap between the impeller housing and the impeller to see that.
Since this is a closed system minimum pressure is required to move the coolant. For every gallon of coolant moved or lifted there is a gallon returned. So the weight of the coolant lifted and returned is not a concern. The only pressure needed is the amount required to overcome the restrictions to flow in the GMC engine and cooling system, This is minimal with all of the open paths available.
When you spill a glass of water on a flat table how much pressure does it take to move the water. Next to none. Now take same amount of water and try to move it on the table through a 1/2" hose. Then do the same with a 1/8 " hose. You will need slightly higher pressure in the 1/2" and much higher pressure in the 1/8" hoses due to the restrictions of the hoses to get flows at similar rates. That is all the water pump is doing and our restrictions are minimal.
I have to run for now. Maybe some one else can explain it better.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151709 is a reply to message #151669] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 12:41 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| wally wrote on Mon, 05 December 2011 08:06 |
| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 04 December 2011 07:51 |
Ken,
Before I go drill another hole in my new dash, tell me: Won't I have to be
sure to get the engine temp above 212*F to start to build that 5 psi? Or
is the pressure at the intake manifold higher than the system pressure
because of the coolant flow? IIRC, somebody measured it at the rear at 25
psi. I've never noticed the 9 psi "blowing off" when I open the radiator
cap -- unless the water's boiling.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> For you guys with all of these gauges, I have often thought of another
> idiot light you need to add...
|
Jacket water pressure as measured
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25034&title=jacket-water-pressure&cat=3841
A 5 psi switch would show major coolant loss.
|
WOW. Now I have to go back and rethink this and probably change the switch pressure value. The number is much higher than I thought. I wonder what the number is with the thermostat open.
Was your cabin heater hose open and rear fresh water heater also plumbed in when this reading was taken?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151738 is a reply to message #151709] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 14:18 |
 |
wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 05 December 2011 12:41 |
| wally wrote on Mon, 05 December 2011 08:06 |
| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 04 December 2011 07:51 |
Ken,
Before I go drill another hole in my new dash, tell me: Won't I have to be
sure to get the engine temp above 212*F to start to build that 5 psi? Or
is the pressure at the intake manifold higher than the system pressure
because of the coolant flow? IIRC, somebody measured it at the rear at 25
psi. I've never noticed the 9 psi "blowing off" when I open the radiator
cap -- unless the water's boiling.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> For you guys with all of these gauges, I have often thought of another
> idiot light you need to add...
|
Jacket water pressure as measured
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25034&title=jacket-water-pressure&cat=3841
A 5 psi switch would show major coolant loss.
|
WOW. Now I have to go back and rethink this and probably change the switch pressure value. The number is much higher than I thought. I wonder what the number is with the thermostat open.
Was your cabin heater hose open and rear fresh water heater also plumbed in when this reading was taken?
|
Cabin heater off so the solenoid valve would have been shut. Water heater in service thru an orifice (5/16"?)the same size as original. I don't mean to get in the middle of anything here. That gage is all over the place. I just put it on there because I could.
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151767 is a reply to message #151738] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 16:34 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| wally wrote on Mon, 05 December 2011 14:18 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 05 December 2011 12:41 |
| wally wrote on Mon, 05 December 2011 08:06 |
| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 04 December 2011 07:51 |
Ken,
Before I go drill another hole in my new dash, tell me: Won't I have to be
sure to get the engine temp above 212*F to start to build that 5 psi? Or
is the pressure at the intake manifold higher than the system pressure
because of the coolant flow? IIRC, somebody measured it at the rear at 25
psi. I've never noticed the 9 psi "blowing off" when I open the radiator
cap -- unless the water's boiling.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> For you guys with all of these gauges, I have often thought of another
> idiot light you need to add...
|
Jacket water pressure as measured
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25034&title=jacket-water-pressure&cat=3841
A 5 psi switch would show major coolant loss.
|
WOW. Now I have to go back and rethink this and probably change the switch pressure value. The number is much higher than I thought. I wonder what the number is with the thermostat open.
Was your cabin heater hose open and rear fresh water heater also plumbed in when this reading was taken?
|
Cabin heater off so the solenoid valve would have been shut. Water heater in service thru an orifice (5/16"?)the same size as original. I don't mean to get in the middle of anything here. That gage is all over the place. I just put it on there because I could.
|
You are in the middle of it now and helping. So stick around.
So now I am taking from this is 9 to 10 PSI because of radiator heat up pressure and another 9 or 10 PSI because of the water pump. Look like monitoring the system pressure would have to be on the radiator or the return hose of the heater.
Hummm.........
I still think it is a good idea.
Ken B.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151791 is a reply to message #151417] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 18:29 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I'd use the digital output for the lamp to light up some bright red LED's in each gauge itself, so if the gauge turns red, well then you'd just better take a look. Need a visible LED in the face so you'd notice it in daylight too...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Autometer Tri-alert Triple Gauge Warning Sys. [message #151804 is a reply to message #151767] |
Mon, 05 December 2011 19:59 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, Wally. I knew I didn't dream up that number. :-)
KenB, I've been on the road all day. Do I REALLY have to read your whole
1:32 PM missive now? :-)
Ken H.
> > > Jacket water pressure as measured
> > > >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25034&title=jacket-water-pressure&cat=3841
> > > > A 5 psi switch would show major coolant loss.
> > >
> > > WOW. Now I have to go back and rethink this and probably change the
> switch pressure value. The number is much higher than I thought. I wonder
> what the number is with the thermostat open.
> ...
> You are in the middle of it now and helping. So stick around.
>
> So now I am taking from this is 9 to 10 PSI because of radiator heat up
> pressure and another 9 or 10 PSI because of the water pump. Look like
> monitoring the system pressure would have to be on the radiator or the
> return hose of the heater.
>
> Hummm.........
>
> I still think it is a good idea.
>
> Ken B.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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