Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » New 6V batteries, and the Heater
| New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151266] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 22:36  |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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Today I made the investment and purchased (2) Interstate 6V batteries (hope the Interstates are good). I've always wanted to use two instead of one battery for the coach. I bought early this year the 3 batt tray from Jim K. I'll install it hope soon.
We often dry camp. I upgraded to all LED lighting inside the Coach, and just use the water pump from time to time. Our frig runs on propane.
I was wondering if anyone does much dry camping in the cold. Why? I was wondering just a approx how well the (2) 6v hold up under the load of the Propane Heater Cycling on/off. I'm really excited about having more power reserve.
If I could squeeze in another question. Does anyone run 2 batteries for their starting battery? I know of the concerns, but was wondering if anyone here does use to of course not in series!
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| .. [message #151267 is a reply to message #151266] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 22:49  |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
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Location: Hot AZ desert
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.. sorry this post shouldnt be here. But my mistake I posted it. Please ignore this post. The above post however was the correct one.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Thu, 01 December 2011 22:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Furnace Encouragement with one question..... [message #151272 is a reply to message #151267] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 23:18 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Keep in mind that the furnace does not want to fire up if voltage is not high.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have a Suburban heater that was giving me fits. I know a lot of you are experts unlike me. But I wanted to encourage any newbies to give stuff a try before paying a ton at a repair shop.
> Before that I was hoping someone would tell me how much gap is there supposed to be on the spark electrode?
> Last year my Suburban Heater wasn't working it always blew cold air. Only every so often would fire up. So I took it all apart at the encouragement of this forum. I replaced a sail switch which before this I had no clue what it even did. Then I found a ton of wasp hive in the heater causing the heater to have fits. I ran #8 power wire to the unit so it would avoid voltage loss as well. Seemed to solve things.
> But once again my first camping trip in the GMC (didn't use the RV for awhile trying to figure out issues with drive quality) the unit turned on heated then shut off early. Then would turn on cycle and blow cold air forever. What a bummer when its cold and the kids are asleep.
> Well today I invested in a dinosaur board for it, and replaced the high limit switch. Tested it many times today and fired up and satisfied at the right temp! Looking good.
> I was pretty proud to pay only for parts and not someones super high labor rate to get her going. Took a few times, but I know a lot more about the furnace now then I ever did before. If your a newbie, take time, use common sense, ask questions, and its really satisfying getting the GMCs systems up and all running the way they should.
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
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Jim Kanomata
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151274 is a reply to message #151266] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 23:39 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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For sure Jim, thats why I'm going with the (2) 6V, I'm sure the draw on one starting type wal-mart battery is tough on it. So I bought (2) Interstate 6v batteries. I'm hoping it will help.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151293 is a reply to message #151266] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 08:00 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Thu, 01 December 2011 23:36 |
Today I made the investment and purchased (2) Interstate 6V batteries (hope the Interstates are good). I've always wanted to use two instead of one battery for the coach. I bought early this year the 3 batt tray from Jim K. I'll install it hope soon.
We often dry camp. I upgraded to all LED lighting inside the Coach, and just use the water pump from time to time. Our frig runs on propane.
I was wondering if anyone does much dry camping in the cold. Why? I was wondering just a approx how well the (2) 6v hold up under the load of the Propane Heater Cycling on/off. I'm really excited about having more power reserve.
If I could squeeze in another question. Does anyone run 2 batteries for their starting battery? I know of the concerns, but was wondering if anyone here does use to of course not in series!
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OK Mike,
I can answer all of your questions with experience, except the Interstates, I've never owned any.
The two GC2's I've got will run an electric reefer, the heater and all the other house loads for at least a day. The saving grace is that if the heater runs much the reefer runs very little. (I like the way that works out.) We have a huge (way huge) Suburban heater because it was what I could get quickly when I discovered the old one had a problem.
You do not need two starting batteries. The newer technology automotive batteries deliver so much more cold cranking power than was available 30-odd years ago that is you buy a starting battery on rating (which I did), the hold-down won't fit and it will be loose in the try. So, I kept the tiny little battery and fixed all the other stuff and have not used the boost switch for starting in four years.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151320 is a reply to message #151266] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 12:50 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Michael, the major portion of our camping is dry camping. When it's warm our
batteries can last a long time as we only use minimal lights and the water pump,
I still need to upgrade to LED lighting, what kind did you install???
When it's cold is when we have battery problems. I want to find a way to keep
warm, we'd be able to extend our camping time in Wisconsin by probably 3 months
(1 1/2 months spring, 1 1/2 fall) if we could figure this out.
But I want to keep the whole coach warm, not just the closed off bedroom.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael <radioactive626@msn.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 10:36:03 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater
Today I made the investment and purchased (2) Interstate 6V batteries (hope the
Interstates are good). I've always wanted to use two instead of one battery for
the coach. I bought early this year the 3 batt tray from Jim K. I'll install it
hope soon.
We often dry camp. I upgraded to all LED lighting inside the Coach, and just use
the water pump from time to time. Our frig runs on propane.
I was wondering if anyone does much dry camping in the cold. Why? I was
wondering just a approx how well the (2) 6v hold up under the load of the
Propane Heater Cycling on/off. I'm really excited about having more power
reserve.
If I could squeeze in another question. Does anyone run 2 batteries for their
starting battery? I know of the concerns, but was wondering if anyone here does
use to of course not in series!
--
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151324 is a reply to message #151292] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 12:57 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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12 degrees is pretty crispy Dan !! The last weekend we went out it got down
to the mid 20's and our batteries we toast......I nearly froze my jalonies off !
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, December 2, 2011 7:57:55 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater
If you are in the SW for the winter you can get by pretty easily. But, some
nights it does get really cold. We were in Duncan and temps hit 12 degrees two
nites, a couple of years back. A Mr Buddy heater or a Wave 6 catalytic will keep
the furnace from coming on and you will stay comfortable. I set the furnace on
55-60 when we go to bed and it will run but not too much. The Wave 6 is turned
off when we go to bed. The furnace can really eat battery power and drink
propane. If your furnace runs much 2 batteries will get a real work out. Jim K.
also sells the 2 battery tray for driver's side. So, we have 4 6volts in our
coach. Nowhere like Az. in the winter.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting
http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151326 is a reply to message #151266] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 13:20 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Thu, 01 December 2011 21:36 |
Today I made the investment and purchased (2) Interstate 6V batteries (hope the Interstates are good). I've always wanted to use two instead of one battery for the coach. I bought early this year the 3 batt tray from Jim K. I'll install it hope soon.
We often dry camp. I upgraded to all LED lighting inside the Coach, and just use the water pump from time to time. Our frig runs on propane.
I was wondering if anyone does much dry camping in the cold. Why? I was wondering just a approx how well the (2) 6v hold up under the load of the Propane Heater Cycling on/off. I'm really excited about having more power reserve.
If I could squeeze in another question. Does anyone run 2 batteries for their starting battery? I know of the concerns, but was wondering if anyone here does use to of course not in series!
|
I have had the furnace running during the winter in Michigan and you will be able to endure a night with 2 good 6V batteries (Interstates are good). You don't want the voltage to get below 12.2 or your battery life will be compromised. You should be fine.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151380 is a reply to message #151266] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 21:00 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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What I'm going to do is use (2) banks of new 6V batteries. And I'm going to buy a No Voltage Drop Battery Isolator. I currently have a 200 amp year old diode isolator but I see about a 1/2 - 3/4 Volt drop using it. I think with (2) banks of new 6V I should be good. Then I need another solar panel to recharge them!
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151381 is a reply to message #151380] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 21:05 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Fri, 02 December 2011 20:00 |
What I'm going to do is use (2) banks of new 6V batteries. And I'm going to buy a No Voltage Drop Battery Isolator. I currently have a 200 amp year old diode isolator but I see about a 1/2 - 3/4 Volt drop using it. I think with (2) banks of new 6V I should be good. Then I need another solar panel to recharge them!
|
I have 2 banks of 6 volt batteries and I use a simple relay to connect all my batts when charging so I have no voltage drop. I do have a solar panel that is about 75 w. I run 2 electric refigerators with no problem while boondocking with ocassional top up from one of my Kipors.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151385 is a reply to message #151266] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 21:31 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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I think (2) sets of the 6V will give me piece of mind. I just hate going to sleep and thinking that the kids are cold. The Furnace blows super hot air and keeps the coach very comfortable (when its working!) I rather a little overkill and less worry. I'm sure running the generator a few hrs a day will help keep them charged as well.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151396 is a reply to message #151266] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 23:01 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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Maybe I'm testing it wrong. Using a multimeter. I'm testing the voltage coming off the alternator. Then testing both side of the isolator. Each battery is showing its charging at .50-.75 volts less then the charging voltage. Does that sound correct?
(hum I re-read your post several times) And I may understand it. On the input side the isolator raises the voltage so it just appears that the voltage is lower on the battery side?
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Fri, 02 December 2011 23:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151406 is a reply to message #151401] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 23:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Fri, 02 December 2011 23:11 |
yes that is the diode drop.
if you jumpered across the diode (alternator input to battery) you would
see the voltage on the battery stay the same.... because the alternator
regulator wants to charge at that voltage, and it will raise the alternator
output to make up for the diode drop.
your isolator is ok
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Here is the same thing in different words. The battery charging voltage should be around 14.0 volts. There is a sense line hooked to the engine battery side of the isolator that runs back to the alternator. The engine driven alternator regulator raises it's output voltage until it sees 14.0 volts on the sense line. So if there is a .6 or .7 volt drop between the output of the alternator and the point where the sense line is attached it makes no difference.
I am thinking that this is not what you are doing. I am thinking you are trying to attach two house battery banks together for charging and separating them for use. If this is what you are up to and you are using a second isolator to do this, then you will have a problem. This is because you are going through the OEM isolator between the engine and house batteries and then a second isolator between the two house batteries. This means two voltage drops of .6 or .7 volts. The batteries will charge very slowly at this reduced voltage.
If this is what you are doing then you want a way to combine these two together instead of using a second isolator. The three ways to do this are:
1. A Combiner
2. A high current relay
3. A 3 position isolator
The combiner is a much best and safest choice. I have seen many non-GMC installations use a simple high current relay with the coil hooked to the ignition. Winnebego use to do this.
Buy the combiner. It is a much safer installation.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater [message #151413 is a reply to message #151409] |
Sat, 03 December 2011 07:13 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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One thing that seldom comes up in isolator discussions: If one has a large
capacity battery bank for the house, it may not be fully charged when the
chassis battery voltage reaches the fold-back level for the alternator.
Let me put that another way: Suppose the house batteries are deeply
discharged and the engine battery is fully charged. Since the alternator
senses ONLY chassis battery voltage, its output will drop back to about
13.9 VDC to sustain the chassis battery at 13.2 VDC (assuming 0.7 VDC diode
forward voltage drop). But 13.2 VDC will take a LONG time to recharge the
depleted house batteries. While the alternator is capable of providing
100A or so, it may be producing less than 10A.
The combiner eliminates that problem by "combining" the house and chassis
batteries into a single battery bank -- the alternator "sees" and responds
to the total requirement for current.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 6:08 AM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> read these slides,
> some functions need you to keep the isolator.
> here is the combiner
> http://goo.gl/S2eGn
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| [GMCnet] Combiner, Isolator, et al (was: RE: New 6V batteries, and the Heater) [message #151419 is a reply to message #151413] |
Sat, 03 December 2011 08:48 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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This info is quite timely for me. I just removed the 4D 12V
battery from its compartment aft of the Onan genset. I tried
several methods, including pulse charging to restore it, but
no dice. I bought a pair of 6V golf cart batteries from Sam's
at just under $75 each. Their rating was less than 5% under
that for the ones that run $110 to $130 plus. I need to order
one of JimK's stainless steel battery trays.
After I installed the Progressive Dynamics 9245 yesterday, I
checked voltages on the isolator (house battery not installed
yet). Output from the PD 9245 was at 14.3 at the converter
and on one of the isolator terminals. The starting batteries
(yes, two in parallel) were just barely above 12.0. They were
about 14.5 with engine running. I suspect that they are NOT
in really good shape, but I have not put them on a charge to
see how good or bad they are. I will probably remove the two
and replace with just one for starting, since some here have
advised that paralleling batteries is NOT such a good idea.
I gather that installation of a combiner is recommended to
ensure that both starting and house batteries are adequately
charged. I see from the pictures at the URL sent by Gene
Fisher that Blue Sea and Yandina are mentioned as options.
Is there a preference for one over the other? It would seem
to me that the Blue Sea device has a good-sized heat sink
to keep solid state devices safely cooled. The Yandina does
not show any such cooling provision. Does the Yandina use
mechanical relays for switching with solid state switching
used in the Blue Sea unit?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> From: hend4800@bellsouth.net
> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 08:13:24 -0500
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] New 6V batteries, and the Heater
>
> One thing that seldom comes up in isolator discussions: If one has a large
> capacity battery bank for the house, it may not be fully charged when the
> chassis battery voltage reaches the fold-back level for the alternator.
>
> Let me put that another way: Suppose the house batteries are deeply
> discharged and the engine battery is fully charged. Since the alternator
> senses ONLY chassis battery voltage, its output will drop back to about
> 13.9 VDC to sustain the chassis battery at 13.2 VDC (assuming 0.7 VDC diode
> forward voltage drop). But 13.2 VDC will take a LONG time to recharge the
> depleted house batteries. While the alternator is capable of providing
> 100A or so, it may be producing less than 10A.
>
> The combiner eliminates that problem by "combining" the house and chassis
> batteries into a single battery bank -- the alternator "sees" and responds
> to the total requirement for current.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 6:08 AM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > read these slides,
> > some functions need you to keep the isolator.
> > here is the combiner
> > http://goo.gl/S2eGn
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