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Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION
[GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149064] Tue, 08 November 2011 05:37 Go to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member
Welcome to the beginning of the camping season on the Left Coast

The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.

One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a GMC.
This is a fun topic, since I have not found a 100% correct, GMC yet ;>)
this shows part of the discussion

http://goo.gl/v2GJ8

along with
- belt selection
- belt alignment
- pulley selection
- tension tools
- 455 and 403 differences
- 1/64 " deflection per inch of distance between pulleys - v-belt testing

should be fun
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149083 is a reply to message #149064] Tue, 08 November 2011 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Berry is currently offline  Gary Berry   United States
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Hey;

We won't be able to make it to the rally. Any way you'll be able
to post the rest of the information after the talks??

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:37 AM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
>
> http://goo.gl/v2GJ8
>
> along with
> - belt selection
> - belt alignment
> - pulley selection
> - tension tools
> - 455 and 403 differences
> - 1/64 "  deflection per inch of distance between pulleys - v-belt testing
> should be fun
> gene

Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149087 is a reply to message #149064] Tue, 08 November 2011 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don A is currently offline  Don A   United States
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Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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<<<<The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a GMC.>>>>


I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?




Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149089 is a reply to message #149087] Tue, 08 November 2011 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member
i would think so, the double pulley cuts the belt contact in half (on the
PS PUMP) from the oem setup.

and
should not be necessary if the alternator belt is aligned, and tensioned
correctly.

gene



On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Don Adams <dj.adams@att.net> wrote:

>
>
>
> <<<<The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
> One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a
> GMC.>>>>
>
>
> I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power
> steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the
> alternator?
>
>
>
> --
> Don
> Dallas, TX
> 1976 26' Glenbrook
> rebuilt by R Archer
> powered by J Bounds, Koba
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149090 is a reply to message #149087] Tue, 08 November 2011 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike miller   United States
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Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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Senior Member
Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 08:09

...
I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?


I have a double pulley set up on my '78. I haven't had any issues with the PS pump even when I would get belt squeal from the AC (different belt), the fan clutch (2 out of three belts) or even the alternator (same two belts). I think the PS pump takes the least power of all the accessories. If it is tight enough for the rest, it should be good for the PS pump.

But that might be different if you have hydro-boost brakes.



Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo' http://m000035.blogspot.com
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149100 is a reply to message #149087] Tue, 08 November 2011 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Don,
You neeed to move the ps pump all the way out so that the blte willl
have the max wrap.
We have not had the ps pump sliping after the doubble pully install.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Don Adams <dj.adams@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> <<<<The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
>  One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a GMC.>>>>
>
>
> I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?
>
>
>
> --
> Don
> Dallas, TX
> 1976 26' Glenbrook
> rebuilt by R Archer
> powered by J Bounds, Koba
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149103 is a reply to message #149087] Tue, 08 November 2011 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Senior Member
Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 11:09

I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?

Don,

I do get some very temporary slipping when I have been running in rain. It only happens in a hard swing at low speed and doesn't last long, but the alternator doesn't scream at me anymore.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149110 is a reply to message #149103] Tue, 08 November 2011 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George DV is currently offline  George DV   United States
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Registered: August 2004
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Senior Member
I had a problem on my 403/76 Glenbk with tossing/breaking Alternator belts.
Many times.
Spent a lot of time fussing with belts/sources/sizes [lots of Hecho en
Mexico crappy stuff], and finally put on a double pulley on alternator.
Solved the Alt. problem [and BTW I never ever went to the trouble of
matching the belts. ]

BUT I did [and do] have PS slipping which is manifested at low speed.
PS pump is levered out as far as it will go, which maximizes belt wrap.. OEM
Belt wrap angle is reduced with the double pulley on alt. so beware. [Just
like everything, there are unintended consequences.]

I did nothing to correct loss of full PS function other than recognize it is
there and particularly at low speed, it takes more armpower to turn. I am
used to it and know why it happens so I am happy.

For the Alt., I merely bought a pair, at random, of 57" belts from Az and
took pot luck. Tightened once after original install at around 500 miles.

No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue
attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.

That's what I did.

George DV

_____________
/ ][ ] [ ] [ ] \
o O-----------O-----O-o
1976 GLENBROOK
TZE166V 100976
455 HEI 3.70
225 UniroyalsAlcoas
Beautiful Upstate NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Colie" <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION


>
>
> Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 11:09
>> I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power
>> steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the
>> alternator?
>
> Don,
>
> I do get some very temporary slipping when I have been running in rain.
> It only happens in a hard swing at low speed and doesn't last long, but
> the alternator doesn't scream at me anymore.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist


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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149116 is a reply to message #149110] Tue, 08 November 2011 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don A is currently offline  Don A   United States
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<<<<No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.>>>>

Thanks guys. That is what I expected. Much shorter contact on the PS pulley.


Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149121 is a reply to message #149116] Tue, 08 November 2011 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
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Senior Member

Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 12:35


<<<<No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.>>>>

Thanks guys. That is what I expected. Much shorter contact on the PS pulley.



Like I told you in the PM, Don, I have NO belt issues and ALMOST no steering pump issues. There may be some slippage at low speeds, but it's hardly noticeable. What Gene says might be true. I only know that after I installed the double pulley, I had no more belt squeal. Then again, it might just have needed a new belt. Who knows?????


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149144 is a reply to message #149087] Tue, 08 November 2011 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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I have had the double pulley and double belts on my alternator for many years. I installed them long before Jim K. started to offer them as an option. I used a pair of "matched" AutoZone (Kelly Springfield) belts from the same lot number. I have never had any indication of belt slippage at any speed.

I do not carry spares. If one were to break I'll simply run on the other one. I the slight chance that a broken belt one should take out the other one, then I'll run on the AC belt only with a loss of power steering and alternator until I can get to a place to replace it. I have never had a broken belt on any vehicle I drive so I do not carry spares. If it bothers you, then carry a spare Kelly Springfield belt for less than $10.00.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149145 is a reply to message #149144] Tue, 08 November 2011 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KRDietz is currently offline  KRDietz   United States
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Single pulley and belt on my 230. Just as GMC designed it.
The only belt squeal I get is when the fan clutch kicks in on a steep
pull. I can't see how any amount of double pulleys would help with that
- unless someone makes a double water pump pulley?

Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR

On 11/8/2011 2:48 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
> I have had the double pulley and double belts on my alternator for many years. I installed them long before Jim K. started to offer them as an option. I used a pair of "matched" AutoZone (Kelly Springfield) belts from the same lot number. I have never had any indication of belt slippage at any speed.
>
> I do not carry spares. If one were to break I'll simply run on the other one. I the slight chance that a broken belt one should take out the other one, then I'll run on the AC belt only with a loss of power steering and alternator until I can get to a place to replace it. I have never had a broken belt on any vehicle I drive so I do not carry spares. If it bothers you, then carry a spare Kelly Springfield belt for less than $10.00.

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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149146 is a reply to message #149145] Tue, 08 November 2011 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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Actually you already have 3 belts running on the water pump pulley. If you have a water pump pulley squeal, I suggest you have one of 3 problems.

1. Belts are not tight enough
2. Wrong width belts
3. Worn water pump pulley.
4. Wrong fan clutch inducing too much drag.

When I talked to an AC Delco engineer several years ago about fan clutches. He told me that the AC Delco 4644 clutch required two 1/2" belts to run it under full load. I told him we were running it with two 7/16" belts. He said that 7/16" belts would be a marginal installation and to expect some higher belt wear and slippage when the clutch kicks in.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149148 is a reply to message #149145] Tue, 08 November 2011 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:52 PM, KRDietz <krdietz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Single pulley and belt on my 230. Just as GMC designed it.
>

yes
the right belt
straight alignment
tight as you can get it
and OEM is all you need.

now most of the squealing systems , have not done this
(but they can - we will cover at the rally)

gene


--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149149 is a reply to message #149148] Tue, 08 November 2011 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ljdavick is currently offline  ljdavick   United States
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Yup, but my double pulley on the alternator solved the problem and the belts need not be so tight.

JWID


Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach

----- Original Message -----
From: "gene Fisher" <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:30:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:52 PM, KRDietz <krdietz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Single pulley and belt on my 230. Just as GMC designed it.
>

yes
the right belt
straight alignment
tight as you can get it
and OEM is all you need.

now most of the squealing systems , have not done this
(but they can - we will cover at the rally)

gene


--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149150 is a reply to message #149116] Tue, 08 November 2011 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fred v is currently offline  fred v   United States
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Senior Member
Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 13:35


<<<<No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.>>>>

Thanks guys. That is what I expected. Much shorter contact on the PS pulley.

BUT, you have twice the number of belts on the PS pump. the contact should be equal. PS pumps will tend to slip on any car. i think i get some slippage but it may not be the belt; it may be the pump itself. it's 35 years old!!! it would act up before i put on the double pulley.



Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149151 is a reply to message #149146] Tue, 08 November 2011 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KRDietz is currently offline  KRDietz   United States
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On 11/8/2011 3:16 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
> Actually you already have 3 belts running on the water pump pulley. If you have a water pump pulley squeal, I suggest you have one of 3 problems.
>
> 1. Belts are not tight enough

Pretty damn tight.
> 2. Wrong width belts

Nope. I know the rules. They're 7/16" belts and almost new.
> 3. Worn water pump pulley.

That is possible. Never really looked.
> 4. Wrong fan clutch inducing too much drag.

The Hayden that was recommended for years on this very List. Works
well, too.
>
> When I talked to an AC Delco engineer several years ago about fan clutches. He told me that the AC Delco 4644 clutch required two 1/2" belts to run it under full load. I told him we were running it with two 7/16" belts. He said that 7/16" belts would be a marginal installation and to expect some higher belt wear and slippage when the clutch kicks in.

And there we have it. Just live with it, maybe. Not a problem very
often...

Gonna look at that water pump pulley, though...

Kelvin
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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149152 is a reply to message #149149] Tue, 08 November 2011 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Senior Member
yes they do,
this is the way v-belts run.
and the belts have to stand above the pulleys,
and the alignment has to be straight

I will send the slides next week
gene


On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:

> Yup, but my double pulley on the alternator solved the problem and the
> belts need not be so tight.
>
> JWID
>
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
> The Mystery Machine
> '76 (ish) Palm Beach
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gene Fisher" <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:30:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:52 PM, KRDietz <krdietz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Single pulley and belt on my 230. Just as GMC designed it.
> >
>
> yes
> the right belt
> straight alignment
> tight as you can get it
> and OEM is all you need.
>
> now most of the squealing systems , have not done this
> (but they can - we will cover at the rally)
>
> gene
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149168 is a reply to message #149152] Tue, 08 November 2011 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ljdavick is currently offline  ljdavick   United States
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Senior Member
Okay, you don't have to shout at me ;-)

I look forward to your presentation. Any chance I'll want to remove my double pulley?

Larry Davick
Sent from my iPad
(perhaps there is more than one Smart A$$ on the net...)

On Nov 8, 2011, at 3:45 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:

> yes they do,
> this is the way v-belts run.
> and the belts have to stand above the pulleys,
> and the alignment has to be straight
>
> I will send the slides next week
> gene
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149170 is a reply to message #149168] Tue, 08 November 2011 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Registered: August 2005
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> Okay, you don't have to shout at me ;-)
>
heck no, I don't own these problems ;>)


>
> I look forward to your presentation. Any chance I'll want to remove my
> double pulley?
>
heck no, just set the tension

gene


>
> Larry Davick
> Sent from my iPad
> (perhaps there is more than one Smart A$$ on the net...)
>
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 3:45 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > yes they do,
> > this is the way v-belts run.
> > and the belts have to stand above the pulleys,
> > and the alignment has to be straight
> >
> > I will send the slides next week
> > gene
> _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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