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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147514 is a reply to message #147506] |
Sun, 23 October 2011 12:53   |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Gene I agree if it is the original solenoid but what if someone put in ford type solenoid? the "I" would go to the points type coil and the "S" would to the start terminal of the ignition. If this is the new solenoid the black wire probably should not be connected if it is a ford type. If it isn't a continuous duty solenoid it may be burnt out? Does it click when power is applied to the S terminal?
If it doesn't I would get another continuous duty RV type solenoid and wire it as Gene suggested.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147552 is a reply to message #147517] |
Sun, 23 October 2011 18:25 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I moved my battery's from the rear compartment to the front next to the starting battery many years ago . I don't have the wiring schematic in front of me but if the boost relay is powered from the starting battery and it is stone dead like 0 volts you wouldn't be able to pull in the solenoid. In this case you could use a small temporary jumper with alligator clips from the fully charged coach battery too the S terminal too pull in the boost solenoid. Then you could crank your engine till it started then remove the small jumper. You could test this by removing the starting battery cable from the starting battery and doing this. If she cranks over you are home free.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147672 is a reply to message #147661] |
Mon, 24 October 2011 13:36 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| bukzin wrote on Mon, 24 October 2011 09:31 |
Dan,
Does that also apply to my '77 Palm Beach
with the spring loaded boost switch?
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I am not Dan, but might be able to address this.
IF your Palm Beach (GM upfitted) is still "as stock" it has a much better battery set-up than the Royales. (Coachman upfitted)
The GM design has a large cable running between the front (chassis) and the rear (house) batteries. So there will be less voltage drop when using the boost switch. As a result, you should be able to "jump" the engine with the momentary boost switch. BUT it still isn't a bad idea to hold it a while before hitting the starter... maybe not 10 minutes...
A note on the Coachman design:
The exact configuration seems to vary from build team to build team and day to day. Each coach is a little different. But I am fairly certain there was a large cable running front to back in the design spec.
I am not very fond of the method used to route this cable on all the Coachman upfitted coaches I have been able to inspect. It is draped over moving parts without protection, but is was there.
If I owned a Royale, I would convert the OEM split house system (one house battery in back paralleled with a house battery up front) to either all batteries up front (like the Birch) or the GM design. (Engine battery up front, house/genset battery bank in back.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147679 is a reply to message #147503] |
Mon, 24 October 2011 14:34 |
Dan Winchester
Messages: 61
Registered: August 2006
Karma: 0
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Right on.
Dan Winchester
www.dwinchester.com
----- Reply message -----
From: "Mike Miller" <m000035@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:36 am
Subject: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
bukzin wrote on Mon, 24 October 2011 09:31
> Dan,
>
> Does that also apply to my '77 Palm Beach
> with the spring loaded boost switch?
I am not Dan, but might be able to address this.
IF your Palm Beach (GM upfitted) is still "as stock" it has a much better battery set-up than the Royales. (Coachman upfitted)
The GM design has a large cable running between the front (chassis) and the rear (house) batteries. So there will be less voltage drop when using the boost switch. As a result, you should be able to "jump" the engine with the momentary boost switch. BUT it still isn't a bad idea to hold it a while before hitting the starter... maybe not 10 minutes...
A note on the Coachman design:
The exact configuration seems to vary from build team to build team and day to day. Each coach is a little different. But I am fairly certain there was a large cable running front to back in the design spec.
I am not very fond of the method used to route this cable on all the Coachman upfitted coaches I have been able to inspect. It is draped over moving parts without protection, but is was there.
If I owned a Royale, I would convert the OEM split house system (one house battery in back paralleled with a house battery up front) to either all batteries up front (like the Birch) or the GM design. (Engine battery up front, house/genset battery bank in back.)
--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147698 is a reply to message #147503] |
Mon, 24 October 2011 17:02 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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This may seem like a strange question, but why not use a Ford starter solenoid if you are just using it to quickly start the coach? I have replaced my front solenoid with the correct one that Jim Bounds sent me, but I know there is another solenoid back in the generator compartment. It seems that the starter solenod should be sufficient, but am I overlooking something?
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147714 is a reply to message #147698] |
Mon, 24 October 2011 18:52 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Mon, 24 October 2011 18:02 |
This may seem like a strange question, but why not use a Ford starter solenoid if you are just using it to quickly start the coach? I have replaced my front solenoid with the correct one that Jim Bounds sent me, but I know there is another solenoid back in the generator compartment. It seems that the starter solenoid should be sufficient, but am I overlooking something?
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George,
A started solenoid is actually different internally, and if put in a situation with a low current load, they frequently don't pull in solidly. Look at the diagrams in a chassis wiring schematic. You will see that the battery contactors (solenoids) have only a single winding, but the type used for starters has two.
It would work if you had to have something to put in there, but it also might overheat if you leave it on too long.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147804 is a reply to message #147599] |
Tue, 25 October 2011 19:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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One benefit of the Trandmode - Bpth batteries are up front.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode Norris
'76 Palm Beach
________________________________
From: Dan Winchester <gmcnet@dwinchester.com>
To: Gary Bovee <gcbgold@digitalpath.net>; gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question
When using the boost switch when engine battery is dead it is best to turn on boost and let sit for 10 minutes. This will partially recharge the engine battery.
The reason for doing this is to keep from drawing to much current thru the wire connecting the house battery to the boost switch. This is particular important where the house battery is in back of coach. In the case of my 78 Royal this was no more then a #10 wire which has no chance of starting a coach with dead engine battery and could easily melt with that type of abuse.
Dan Winchester
www.dwinchester.com
----- Reply message -----
From: "Gary Bovee" <gcbgold@digitalpath.net>
Date: Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:21 am
Subject: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Roy, Yes it clicks when I apply power to the S terminal. I hadn't done
that kind of test in about 40 years, so I forget it was that simple.
Let me back up a little an explain what is going on. The wire from the 50
amp breaker to the booster solenoid was about 12 ga. Too small to carry
much current. I replaced it with a much larger wire. That may have been my
problem why the engine would not turn over before. Everything may be fine
now. I just don't want to get stuck again if the engine battery is low and
I need a boost from the house batteries. I wanted to make sure everything
was wired up right. Now that I know the boost switch and the solenoid is
working, hopefully I'll be OK.
Thank,
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: roy@gmcnet.org ; keen@gmcnet.org ; Minden@gmcnet.org ; Nv '76
Glenbrook
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:53 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147813 is a reply to message #147808] |
Tue, 25 October 2011 20:37 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 25 October 2011 17:50 |
G'day,
I got to thinking about this and would like some help.
Here is a link to the Avion's 12 Volt Wiring Diagram:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=41274
As you can see the rear batteries are connected to the fuse block through a 40 amp fuse.
The Fwd. Int. Battery is right next to the Chassis battery and the total length of the cables is probably less than three feet and
is large. The cable from the two Rear Interior Batteries is much smaller; the OD of the insulation is probably 3/16".
When I hit the Boost switch why doesn't that fuse blow as I am sure the current draw of the starter is way more than 40 amps?
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Something about that diagram bothers me....
I am not an engineer but I am a tech...
Looks like the Fwd. Int. Battery would supply most of the current to boost the engine starting system. The long run of relatively smaller gauge wire will have enough resistance to limit the amount of current flowing from the Rear Interior Batteries through the boost switch to the starting system. AS LONG as the front battery is providing it. If the Fwd. Int. Battery doesn't have the capability to provide the current for the starter... I am fairly certain that one of the TWO fuses in the current path would blow.
To me that system makes even less sense than the system that was installed in the Royales.
But evidentially it works well enough....
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Booster Solenoid Wiring Question [message #147816 is a reply to message #147503] |
Tue, 25 October 2011 21:33 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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George, the second solenoid in the back is to temporarily shunt the breaker in the back during boost. When in non boost the long cable is then protected against a chafe type or any short by the breaker.
If you don't have a Yandina combiner I can't say enough about what a simple addon that was and how it's a hands off device that works without intervention. Simplicty is bliss.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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