Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146261 is a reply to message #146260] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 07:20   |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Ken,
Maybe this farmboy has his terms backwards, but on the chain drive chart, I would say the "drive" sprocket is on the engine and the driven sprocket is on the transmission. If so I think you have the columns reversed, otherwise you would be gearing faster.. ie. the 65 tooth driving the 54 tooth, the tranny would be turning 1.2 times faster... or should I get another cup of coffee?
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146356 is a reply to message #146351] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 21:37 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Which is why I asked the reasoning as well. Setting the preload on a diff is a PIA, it looks like the chain change might be a bit simpler. But, you'd increase the torque into the final drive. Maybe those as has done both will chime in. I'm happy wih the box stock in the 23', but when the PB hits the road, with toad, it might want something with a bit more poon to get over Monteagle on I 24.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 21:13
> Question -
> Which would be the better way to numerically increase the stock - via the chain or via the ring n pinion. Why would that be the better way?
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:06 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
>
> I've received some new information to add to the gear ratios table I
> published a while back. Before I touch it, I'd appreciate Y'All taking a
> look at the current version to identify additional changes I should make.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5124/overall_drive_ratios.pdf
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
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Depends on who you ask. I initially wanted the chain but got the gear.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting
http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146357 is a reply to message #146350] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 21:39 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Johnny, for ease of changing the ratio, the final drive is less involved.
Just the axle flanges, drain some of the transmission fluid, pull the
dipstick tube, take 5 bolts out, roll the transmission jack in place, pry
the final drive from the transmission, and replace the final drive with a
different geared assembly. As for which is superior, there are good and bad
points to consider both ways. If you have to have the transmission out
anyway, then it changes the equation somewhat. Like I say in my technical
presentations, some guys like green coaches, some like blue. Some like Fords
and some like Chevs. Probably never settle this one.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Question -
> Which would be the better way to numerically increase the stock - via the
> chain or via the ring n pinion. Why would that be the better way?
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:06 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
>
> I've received some new information to add to the gear ratios table I
> published a while back. Before I touch it, I'd appreciate Y'All taking a
> look at the current version to identify additional changes I should make.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5124/overall_drive_ratios.pdf
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146358 is a reply to message #146356] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 21:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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And I misstated - you'd actually increase the torque on the trans input shaft, not the final drive with chain reduction.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
Which is why I asked the reasoning as well. Setting the preload on a diff is a PIA, it looks like the chain change might be a bit simpler. But, you'd increase the torque into the final drive. Maybe those as has done both will chime in. I'm happy wih the box stock in the 23', but when the PB hits the road, with toad, it might want something with a bit more poon to get over Monteagle on I 24.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 21:13
> Question -
> Which would be the better way to numerically increase the stock - via the chain or via the ring n pinion. Why would that be the better way?
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:06 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
>
> I've received some new information to add to the gear ratios table I
> published a while back. Before I touch it, I'd appreciate Y'All taking a
> look at the current version to identify additional changes I should make.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5124/overall_drive_ratios.pdf
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Depends on who you ask. I initially wanted the chain but got the gear.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting
http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146359 is a reply to message #146260] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 22:07 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i have a 3.55 final drive and helped a friend who broke his chain do the 3.50 chain conversion. i cannot see any difference in performance. someone said the chain conversion doesn't hold up as well but i've never heard of a chain problem other than my buddy.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146363 is a reply to message #146355] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 22:45 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The chain method can put more stress on the transmission at the points
where the load will be applied. It is slight but it is present.
Some have found that when a transmission need to be swapped out, they
sometimes had a hard time getting the chain changed over.
Manufactures feel that change at the end is simper and less troublesome.
The maximum you can go with the popular chains are around 3.50, should
you need to go lower you'll need to use a 3.21 which requires more
changes and outlay of funds to arrive at 3.67.
It is a choice, and we have over 3,000 units running out there.(3.55/3.70/4.10)
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146369 is a reply to message #146363] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 01:09 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Dang! Now I see Jim responded before my long-winded response.
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2011, at 8:45 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> The chain method can put more stress on the transmission at the points
> where the load will be applied. It is slight but it is present.
> Some have found that when a transmission need to be swapped out, they
> sometimes had a hard time getting the chain changed over.
> Manufactures feel that change at the end is simper and less troublesome.
> The maximum you can go with the popular chains are around 3.50, should
> you need to go lower you'll need to use a 3.21 which requires more
> changes and outlay of funds to arrive at 3.67.
> It is a choice, and we have over 3,000 units running out there.(3.55/3.70/4.10)
>
>
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146375 is a reply to message #146350] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 03:31 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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there is this,
http://www.gmcdixielanders.org/newsletter/nl_2003-01.pdf
about that
gene
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Question -
> Which would be the better way to numerically increase the stock - via the
> chain or via the ring n pinion. Why would that be the better way?
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:06 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
>
> I've received some new information to add to the gear ratios table I
> published a while back. Before I touch it, I'd appreciate Y'All taking a
> look at the current version to identify additional changes I should make.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5124/overall_drive_ratios.pdf
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146376 is a reply to message #146363] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 03:37 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Jim, I just figured out my first long trip to GMCWS & back with the new 3:70
final drive. 78 Royale 26 foot carrying my usual amount of tools and spares.
Tips the Scales about 10,000#.
Tire circumference is the same as OEM, but are steel belted under the
tread/fabric sidewall B.F. Goodrich Commercial T/As. 403 cubic inches,
quadra jet carb, HEI. Properly aligned. Most of the time running the dash
A/C. My clutch fan was going full tilt boogie way too much of the time and
probably cost me a mile or two per gallon. Two trips over the Siskiyous and
two trips over the Grapevine, driving mostly steady speed without Cruise
control, most of the time at 3200 -3300 RPM. That equates to 65-70+ mph.
3100 plus miles on 301 gallons of 87 Octane, mostly Chevron, Man I really
hate those recovery nozzles in California. They are a pain in the butt. I
can not see much difference in fuel use between 3:07 stock ratio vs the
3:70, but drivability is much better. Pulling away from stoplights, merging
onto freeways, I pulled up the Grapevine from LA going north and only
shifted to second once. If I had been running the 3:07s, I would have been
in first gear at 25 mph. Really big difference.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> The chain method can put more stress on the transmission at the points
> where the load will be applied. It is slight but it is present.
> Some have found that when a transmission need to be swapped out, they
> sometimes had a hard time getting the chain changed over.
> Manufactures feel that change at the end is simper and less troublesome.
> The maximum you can go with the popular chains are around 3.50, should
> you need to go lower you'll need to use a 3.21 which requires more
> changes and outlay of funds to arrive at 3.67.
> It is a choice, and we have over 3,000 units running out
> there.(3.55/3.70/4.10)
>
>
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146380 is a reply to message #146375] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 06:44 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I appreciate the replies. It looks as if essentially the methodology is a wash - both have their champions. I'll wind up deciding (some months from now at least) based on how deeply I have to dive into the driveline on the coash, and pricing at the time.
Â
Thanks, guys!
Â
--johnny
Â
________________________________
From: gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
there is this,
http://www.gmcdixielanders.org/newsletter/nl_2003-01.pdf
about that
gene
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Question -
> Which would be the better way to numerically increase the stock - via the
> chain or via the ring n pinion. Why would that be the better way?
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:06 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios
>
> I've received some new information to add to the gear ratios table I
> published a while back. Before I touch it, I'd appreciate Y'All taking a
> look at the current version to identify additional changes I should make.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5124/overall_drive_ratios.pdf
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146382 is a reply to message #146360] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 07:44 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 22:23 |
Fred, the reason I tore you up on Monteagle mite be that they stuck a 370 in mine instead of the 355. The FI mite have had something to do with it also.
Dan
|
could be but i think it was mostly your engine. mine is a poor quality rebuild. but then again i'm still running mine!!! LOL
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146402 is a reply to message #146382] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 15:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Manny,
Thanks for that information; I've never heard it brore. I'll add it to the
table. Nothing else to report?
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:44 AM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 22:23
> > Fred, the reason I tore you up on Monteagle mite be that they stuck a 370
> in mine instead of the 355. The FI mite have had something to do with it
> also.
> > Dan
>
> could be but i think it was mostly your engine. mine is a poor quality
> rebuild. but then again i'm still running mine!!! LOL
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146408 is a reply to message #146260] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 16:23 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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The way I see it, the chain is multiplying the torque BEFORE the transmission and the final drive change is multiplying the torque AFTER the transmission. A no brainer, unless you are doing durability torture testing on THMs.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Gear Ratios [message #146411 is a reply to message #146402] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 17:00 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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> Manny,
>
> Thanks for that information; I've never heard it brore. I'll add it to the
> table. Nothing else to report?
>
what was this?
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:44 AM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > WD0AFQ wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 22:23
> > > Fred, the reason I tore you up on Monteagle mite be that they stuck a
> 370
> > in mine instead of the 355. The FI mite have had something to do with it
> > also.
> > > Dan
> >
> > could be but i think it was mostly your engine. mine is a poor quality
> > rebuild. but then again i'm still running mine!!! LOL
> >
> > --
> > Fred V
> > '77 Royale RB 455
> > P'cola, Fl
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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