Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Fire Supression
| [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146110] |
Mon, 10 October 2011 21:14  |
Jim Decheine
Messages: 27
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Someone on the net had some info on a fire suppression system similar to the
one Jim B. is trying to get started.
I talked to Jim B. today and told him I thought had seen something on the
net similar to the one he has.
I told him I would pass the info on if I found it.
He informed me that the only thing holding him up on getting this system on
the market, is he has to come up with
$30,000.00 dollars which he doesn't have.
I hope I'm not stepping on your toes Jim, but I feel real strong about
making these coaches safer to operate after
reading about another coach burning to the ground, cause unknown.
I don't know how the GMC community feels about this, but I for one would be
willing to donate money up front
to Jim if it would help get this product on the market sooner.
Thanks for listening.
Just my thoughts.
JADE
73 23' ?? 73 26' Painted Desert
Ajo, AZ
KC7QGC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146137 is a reply to message #146110] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 07:41  |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Thanks for the plug, I blushed when I read your post. I truly appreciate the support but let me give you a little hint on the stresses in making a business decision such as this.
Seriously guys, I too feel having fire safety options for RV's to me is really needed-- heck, that's the reason I got involved with Ralph and Fire Fight in the first place. Shortly after starting to mess with the stuff, a coach we had just worked with the owner renovating for over a year caught on fire why-- because the coach simply had old parts that failed at the wrong time and if I hadn't sheepishly suggested putting a fire suppression system in his engine compartment, that coach would have burned to the lug nuts. I know because I worked on the coach before the event and fixed the damage after. it was a total first person experience and I know I made a difference.
That's not the problem, the problem is-- selling fire suppression seems to be like selling insurance and if the insurance industry had not gotten it to be law that you must have home, car and liability insurance they would not be the industry they are. "Supplimental Fire Suppression" is not manditory and the fire measures that are manditory in buildings and such are so stupid (ie. a bucket of pressurized dirt) that how can you risk your farm on such an industry especially when the general public out there that is your market simply does not seem to feel (at least a larger majority of them) they need to have fire protection!
I can make income producing and selling this product, Ralph proved that to me and education of how important fire suppression is goes a long way to showing those skeptics this is a viable thing to consider but without pushing hard sales will dwindle. Currently, with the economy the way it is, any small business man must focus hard on their core business and not reach out to include marginal products that may or may not earn the rate of return needed to pay the bills. Banks are not loaning money especially on speculation and maybe that's right to keep "dare to be great people" from believing in an idea so much that they risk failure.
This is where our economy is today, God only knows where we are heading-- to me that should mean folks should be paranoid to assure they will keep what they have and in the light that fires are burning motorhomes often you would think supplimental fire suppression would be a good business. I know it is, I know it's merits and I know Ralph had a business combination that along with the marketing, pricing and product line we had produced, the company would prosper-- I just know it but there I go again-- believing in an idea so much that I jump out on that thin limb! This is the struggle I am facing right now, I have sold through almost all of the ending inventory I had purchased from the estate, now is the time to decide if I want to go into production. I can do it, I have the people, the raw materials and the intelliectual property to make it happen-- just can I afford to take the chance.
Only 1 person purchased a fire suppression system from this mailing list, does that mean no one sees the value, does it mean everyone has fire safety measures in their coach and does that mean there simply is not the market out thereI feel there is? These are the questions that determine if Fire Fight will rise again. This is not an appeal but if someone out there has the ability, feels fire suppression is something that folks need and would like to roll some dice with me and be a part of offering a truly needed saferty product to the GMC and RV community at large, give me a call. This is weighing heavily upon me right now and without options I'm really not certain which way this will go.
Sorry for bearing my soul here but you guys have known me long enough that hey, duck or you might get some of it on ya! These are the things I talked with Jim about yesterday that percipitated his post. My kintergaten teacher told my Mom I talked too much so please excuse me. Again, thanks Jim but I'm not sure laying all of this out here is the right thing to do, hey but I did it anyway!
Jim Bounds
--------------------------
________________________________
From: Jim Decheine <jadecheine@frontiernet.net>
To: GMC List <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:14 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Fire Supression
Someone on the net had some info on a fire suppression system similar to the
one Jim B. is trying to get started.
I talked to Jim B. today and told him I thought had seen something on the
net similar to the one he has.
I told him I would pass the info on if I found it.
He informed me that the only thing holding him up on getting this system on
the market, is he has to come up with
$30,000.00 dollars which he doesn't have.
I hope I'm not stepping on your toes Jim, but I feel real strong about
making these coaches safer to operate after
reading about another coach burning to the ground, cause unknown.
I don't know how the GMC community feels about this, but I for one would be
willing to donate money up front
to Jim if it would help get this product on the market sooner.
Thanks for listening.
Just my thoughts.
JADE
73 23' ?? 73 26' Painted Desert
Ajo, AZ
KC7QGC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146145 is a reply to message #146137] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 08:46 |
PETEinLongBeach
Messages: 90
Registered: June 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
Karma: 0
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So, at this point, are there any automatic fire suppression systems still available? Are the ones on Jim K's site leftover stock from Fire Fight?
Pete Smay
Long Beach, CA
1977 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146155 is a reply to message #146137] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 09:44 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I agree with JimB. No one out there works harder and stretchs himself out more than Jim does for his customers. Every visit at this location he has been nothing more than considerate and helpful, even to the point of allowing me to stay in the coach at this shop location overnight during a repair.
On the fire suppression issue, the thought is "Anything is better than NOTHING". But today with GMC values decreasing and everything costing more just to buy plus installation, we tend to put things on hold.
Jims report is the first one I have heard of that explains that an installed supression system has actually worked. Up until now no one has said a word. don't get me wrong, thats a good thing if it means there have been no fires. We don't like fires, especially in our Antique coaches. But no one has talked about results.
Another thing that might help sales is more information... how are they installed. Is it difficult to install. How expensive is it to buy and install. What maintenance do users have to take care of. How do they handle freezing weather? Wet weather? And the last might be, can an owner install the system.
Water systems are a thought as we carry 30 and upward gallons of water. A mist might be helpful if the fuel source can be stopped.
Then again there are fire resistant coverings, some paint on.
Or how might a sheet steel covering over the wood resist the fire.
Or, in the case of the tranny overflow, metal diversion to guide fluid away from the exhaust pipe.
I have even considered running a secondary rubber hose over the existing fuel line to catch fuel from a failed fuel line to prevent spraying on the hot engine.
Ok, some of my thoughts are simplistic and it takes a lot to get someone to move on a project that takes money. But Jim has a good point. These old girls are prone to part failure, not due to bad parts but due to old parts just failing. Owners need to consider some kind of preventive action if you want to keep your coach.
Just my thoughts on a not so bad idea
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146156 is a reply to message #146145] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 09:46 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Jim, I am currently working on Paul Hoge's 73 Glacier that had an electrical
fire on the way back from the Cascaders Wine Country rally. In this case the
ancient battery box (that another RV repair facility chose to overlook and
installed new batteries on it) failed and the battery tipped forward thereby
shorting the front post onto the turnsignal lamp socket. Dead short to
ground. Burned the headlight harness grounds back to the fuse block and
melted the harness clear to the drivers side of the coach, including the
headlight switch and some other stuff as well. Paul was able to grab the
harness barehanded and yank it out by the roots, stopping the ignition
source. By the time he found the hand held fire extinguisher, he saw no need
to use it. Fortunately for me I did not have to clean up the dry chem mess
along with the damage to the wiring. I have seen several other GMCs burn to
the lugnuts as well. I personally have an automatic halon fire suppression
underhood system on my coach. All of the GMCs that I have worked on could
benefit from an effective suppression system. There is no one as righteous
as a reformed hooker, and it only takes one fire to convince you. I lost a
high school classmate in an RV fire. He was coming home late at night, fell
asleep at the wheel, crashed and burned. Fire suppression would have saved
his life. I have had similar fires on race cars. Those systems work. Please
give serious thought to continue production of your systems. I will continue
to install them and urge others to do so as well. My two cents worth.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Pete <peteinlb@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> So, at this point, are there any automatic fire suppression systems still
> available? Are the ones on Jim K's site leftover stock from Fire Fight?
> --
> Pete Smay
> Long Beach, CA
> 1977 Kingsley
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146179 is a reply to message #146137] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 16:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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WEll, for the helluvit, let's assume you hit the lottery, and invest the 30 Large. So now you're marketing a fire supression for the engine compartment in my GMC. What's in gonna coast me to equip the coach? Turnkey and - assuming I can - parts and instructions?
thanks,
Johnny
________________________________
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression
Jim,
Thanks for the plug, I blushed when I read your post. I truly appreciate the support but let me give you a little hint on the stresses in making a business decision such as this.
Seriously guys, I too feel having fire safety options for RV's to me is really needed-- heck, that's the reason I got involved with Ralph and Fire Fight in the first place. Shortly after starting to mess with the stuff, a coach we had just worked with the owner renovating for over a year caught on fire why-- because the coach simply had old parts that failed at the wrong time and if I hadn't sheepishly suggested putting a fire suppression system in his engine compartment, that coach would have burned to the lug nuts. I know because I worked on the coach before the event and fixed the damage after. it was a total first person experience and I know I made a difference.
That's not the problem, the problem is-- selling fire suppression seems to be like selling insurance and if the insurance industry had not gotten it to be law that you must have home, car and liability insurance they would not be the industry they are. "Supplimental Fire Suppression" is not manditory and the fire measures that are manditory in buildings and such are so stupid (ie. a bucket of pressurized dirt) that how can you risk your farm on such an industry especially when the general public out there that is your market simply does not seem to feel (at least a larger majority of them) they need to have fire protection!
I can make income producing and selling this product, Ralph proved that to me and education of how important fire suppression is goes a long way to showing those skeptics this is a viable thing to consider but without pushing hard sales will dwindle. Currently, with the economy the way it is, any small business man must focus hard on their core business and not reach out to include marginal products that may or may not earn the rate of return needed to pay the bills. Banks are not loaning money especially on speculation and maybe that's right to keep "dare to be great people" from believing in an idea so much that they risk failure.
This is where our economy is today, God only knows where we are heading-- to me that should mean folks should be paranoid to assure they will keep what they have and in the light that fires are burning motorhomes often you would think supplimental fire suppression would be a good business. I know it is, I know it's merits and I know Ralph had a business combination that along with the marketing, pricing and product line we had produced, the company would prosper-- I just know it but there I go again-- believing in an idea so much that I jump out on that thin limb! This is the struggle I am facing right now, I have sold through almost all of the ending inventory I had purchased from the estate, now is the time to decide if I want to go into production. I can do it, I have the people, the raw materials and the intelliectual property to make it happen-- just can I afford to take the chance.
Only 1 person purchased a fire suppression system from this mailing list, does that mean no one sees the value, does it mean everyone has fire safety measures in their coach and does that mean there simply is not the market out thereI feel there is? These are the questions that determine if Fire Fight will rise again. This is not an appeal but if someone out there has the ability, feels fire suppression is something that folks need and would like to roll some dice with me and be a part of offering a truly needed saferty product to the GMC and RV community at large, give me a call. This is weighing heavily upon me right now and without options I'm really not certain which way this will go.
Sorry for bearing my soul here but you guys have known me long enough that hey, duck or you might get some of it on ya! These are the things I talked with Jim about yesterday that percipitated his post. My kintergaten teacher told my Mom I talked too much so please excuse me. Again, thanks Jim but I'm not sure laying all of this out here is the right thing to do, hey but I did it anyway!
Jim Bounds
--------------------------
________________________________
From: Jim Decheine <jadecheine@frontiernet.net>
To: GMC List <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:14 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Fire Supression
Someone on the net had some info on a fire suppression system similar to the
one Jim B. is trying to get started.
I talked to Jim B. today and told him I thought had seen something on the
net similar to the one he has.
I told him I would pass the info on if I found it.
He informed me that the only thing holding him up on getting this system on
the market, is he has to come up with
$30,000.00 dollars which he doesn't have.
I hope I'm not stepping on your toes Jim, but I feel real strong about
making these coaches safer to operate after
reading about another coach burning to the ground, cause unknown.
I don't know how the GMC community feels about this, but I for one would be
willing to donate money up front
to Jim if it would help get this product on the market sooner.
Thanks for listening.
Just my thoughts.
JADE
73 23' ?? 73 26' Painted Desert
Ajo, AZ
KC7QGC
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146206 is a reply to message #146110] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 18:29 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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When I was still doing a lot of work for keel boat racers, I had to carry a huge bond. When I talked to the carriers, the wanted to know what I did and how I did it.
Their big question was, "Do I use a big torch for shrink film?" - I don't do shrink film.
You do some soldering... "What king of torch do you use for that?" - A temperature controlled soldering iron (they actually flinched when they saw the cost of that).
What about your truck... My truck is a 35 year old(then) motorhome.
Gas or Diesel? - Gas...
With a gas refrigerator? - No
It came back that without a fixed fire suppression system, they were glad to take a lot of my money to post a bond for the year. The amount that the suppression system saved covered the cost before the end of the second season.
Unfortunately, the APU bottle blew out. I don't know why or when. There is no evidence of fire or thermal damage. But as I am now out of business, it won't be replaced. When JimB gets FireFighter back online, it may get refilled if Halons aren't outlawed by then.
But, I am going to find out how to do an agreed value policy.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146210 is a reply to message #146110] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 18:36 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim,James and Larry. Having read for years about others who had GMC fires I decided to do as much as I could to not start one or fuel it after it started. I hope to install a supression system also. When I switched to a Caddy and made the Hubler conversion I decided to do a full pull and rebuild it all. To not fuel a fire after it starts I isulated the engine comartment with 1/2 inch thick ceramic fiber encapsulated in .005 aluminum(five thousands,,,,real thick foil.) I also used a total of 3 tyraps. When I needed to secure something I made a metal strap or bracket. I several locations I would attache an aluminum strap 1/8 thick, 3/4 wide and 6-10 inches long. Securing through the ceramic/AL was a pain. I ran all the wires running from the rear to the engine compartment in 3/4 thinwall. Ran most of the wires running from the left side of the engine compartment to the right side in conduit. I also ran my vacume lines in metal. i.e.,,,, dash vac gauge,cruise dump and pwr brakes. I no longer have the heater box vac. line due to an all electric box(still under development). I also installed "Flame Resistant" heater hoses. Of course I ran new SS flared fuel line from the pump to carb. Just some of the things I've done. The ceramic/AL foil has done a wonderful job of making the cockpit quiet(cooler too). At 65 you don't here the Caddy unless the hills are pretty steep.,,,,,,,,PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146216 is a reply to message #146137] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 18:55 |
Jim Galbavy
Messages: 1443
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I have Fire Fight's systems in my engine, generator and refer compartments. Not that expensive, and as has been said about new tires here: cheaper than body work (and could save your life).
JimB, we are camped out tonite in Pine Mountain,Ga. Doing a little run. Friday nite saw Buckwheat Zydeco (the opening band was better) in Tampa. On to Panama City Beach and "Man in the Sea Museum". Left this morning and had to stop and have JimB fix my refer when I blew a fuse and couldn't find it in Columbus,Ga.. Thanks for the road service.
Off tomorrow for Ashville and then the Blueridge Parkway to a Tidewater Crab rally in Crozet, Va this weekend.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, Fl
[Updated on: Tue, 11 October 2011 20:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146303 is a reply to message #146210] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 13:07 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I hope to install a suppression system also. >SNIP<I insulated the engine compartment with 1/2 inch thick ceramic fiber encapsulated in .005 aluminum(five thousands,,,,real thick foil.) I also used a total of 3 tyraps. When I needed to secure something I made a metal strap or bracket. >SNIP<
I have thought about a retardant system like that. I have not found much on the market that might fit the bill. I have heard of fire retardant paints but have not seen any tests to prove its actual effectiveness.
In several locations I would attache an aluminum strap 1/8 thick, 3/4 wide and 6-10 inches long. Securing through the ceramic/AL was a pain.>SNIP<
A caution might be needed here. If you are using a large metal piece that can pick up heat from a fire, it can transmit heat through your protective covering via the bolts. Many ships have had fires expand by heat transfer through metal parts.
I ran all the wires running from the rear to the engine compartment in 3/4 thinwall. Ran most of the wires running from the left side of the engine compartment to the right side in conduit.>SNIP<
Sounds like a neat job. Of course you used high temp wire so it would not melt if fire lapped at the conduits for any time.
I ran new SS flared fuel line from the pump to carb. >SNIP<
I was thinking of putting a hose over the gas lines as an added wall to stop a leak. No help if a component fails, a filter, gas pump, etc.
JimB seems to have come to a different way of thinking about the gas line to the carb. His thought ( at the time I spoke with him ) was that the rigid lines will crack over time. He was thinking of a reinforced flexy line to replace that rigid line. The thought makes a lot of sense.
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146325 is a reply to message #146200] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 17:12 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Biggreen:
I can't tell you at what temp these things trigger but I've been cross country several times with no false firing.
Glenn
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146330 is a reply to message #146110] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 18:01 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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has anyone measured the temps we have normally in engine compartment? i do see on line there are options based on bottle size and temp which it deploys. i have also seen what looks like a hose between head and bottle. being the cheep person i am, i wonder if 2 of the small ones, one on each wheel well would do me any good if one came this year and one came next year. or if installed with cut out as shown on this post, if bottle was smaller one, would it put out fire, or just slow it down?
there is a fine line between buying all the fun and fancy stuf to this coach but not have any gas money, and buying a lot of gas, but not having any of the fun and fancy and safe stuff. i would like to find the part spent on stuff, and part spent on gas and get then enjoyment out of as intended.
brian
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression [message #146379 is a reply to message #146151] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 06:39 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan,
Sorry but I have traction on the top of my soap box, the coach that had just been finished ony went from Sarasota to the Jimmy Buffet Concert in Tampa, it was the first outing for the coach -- it was not even completely done but the owner had us install the engine fire suppression system when we were doing the "belts & hoses" routine when the coach was here. The carb fuel line fatigued, failed and cracked open. The owner had even said he had noticed a little slugishness in the motor as he pulled into the concert but did not worry about it saying he would have it checked out later. "Later", when he had all of his friends partying in the coach after the concert actually in the motorhome parking area is when it let go. I will tell you now and the fire fighter who was witnessing the coach burning that if the fire suppression system had not been in that coach thre would be 1 less GMC on the planet. There would have been no way to reach the top of
the motor with any outside fire measure!
DO NOT give someone who is simply stacking their "round tuits" a pass on this, tell me please how this is not a must do option!
Jim Bounds
-----------------------
________________________________
From: Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fire Supression
There are several folks on this list that have already purchased Ralph's products. Did not want folks to think you, Jim, meant no one here had been interested. Many who use their coaches on long runs have the system. Those who put few miles on their GMC are not putting this at the top of their list. I can see why.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting
http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
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