Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump?
| [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145498] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 17:14  |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Another day, another problem. While lying under the coach checking for
power steering leaks after replacing the blown hose, I noticed another drip.
This one is coming from the mechanical fuel pump. It appears to be leaking
from the body of the pump, not the connections on top.
We already have an electric fuel pump. Can I just bypass the mechanical
pump? If so, how? Some kind of fitting between the rubber hose as the
hard line to the carb?? Do I need to physically remove the pump and block
off the hole, or ?? Hints appreciated.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145504 is a reply to message #145498] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 17:39  |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| KB wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 17:14 |
Another day, another problem. While lying under the coach checking for
power steering leaks after replacing the blown hose, I noticed another drip.
This one is coming from the mechanical fuel pump. It appears to be leaking
from the body of the pump, not the connections on top.
We already have an electric fuel pump. Can I just bypass the mechanical
pump? If so, how? Some kind of fitting between the rubber hose as the
hard line to the carb?? Do I need to physically remove the pump and block
off the hole, or ?? Hints appreciated.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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i added an elect. pump and cut off the lower fitting of the mech. pump and slipped on the rubber hose. i ran it like that for awhile but could hear the pump squeaking so i removed it and made a block off plate to cover the hole.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145513 is a reply to message #145498] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 18:07 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Two things,
1) You can by-pass the mechanical pump but be very careful about just
attaching the rubber hose to the hard line as it is close to front of the
right side exhaust manifold. Ideally you would replace the entire line from
maybe back at the firewall with some good hose or Aeroquip braided line
right to the carb. The fittings you need are all available from Summit
racing including the AN-6 to QJet adaptor should you choose to use Aeroquip
or similar. If you choose to cut the hard line at the carb you ought to make
sure you bead roll the steel tube to keep the hose from slipping off.
2) You should remove the old fuel pump. As far as I know there is not a
commercially available block off plate but you can easily make one from 1/4
inch thich aluminum or steel and some gasket material.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "KB" <kab7@sonic.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump?
> Another day, another problem. While lying under the coach checking for
> power steering leaks after replacing the blown hose, I noticed another
> drip.
> This one is coming from the mechanical fuel pump. It appears to be
> leaking
> from the body of the pump, not the connections on top.
>
> We already have an electric fuel pump. Can I just bypass the mechanical
> pump? If so, how? Some kind of fitting between the rubber hose as the
> hard line to the carb?? Do I need to physically remove the pump and block
> off the hole, or ?? Hints appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145520 is a reply to message #145498] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 19:02 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Jim K's team removed my mechanical pump when I had all the fuel lines replace and an electric buzzzzz saw installed.
Funny, but the electric fuel pump on the VW Westfalia is rubber isolated. I bought some rubber isolators, from input here, but have yet to install them. Maybe that will be on the list for after Fleet Week.
Larry Davick
ljdavick@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "KB" <kab7@sonic.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 3:14:06 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump?
Another day, another problem. While lying under the coach checking for
power steering leaks after replacing the blown hose, I noticed another drip.
This one is coming from the mechanical fuel pump. It appears to be leaking
from the body of the pump, not the connections on top.
We already have an electric fuel pump. Can I just bypass the mechanical
pump? If so, how? Some kind of fitting between the rubber hose as the
hard line to the carb?? Do I need to physically remove the pump and block
off the hole, or ?? Hints appreciated.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145522 is a reply to message #145504] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 19:05 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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We used to take the mechanical pumps apart and pack them with cup grease and put them back on the engine.
--johnny
________________________________
From: fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump?
KB wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 17:14
> Another day, another problem. While lying under the coach checking for
> power steering leaks after replacing the blown hose, I noticed another drip.
> This one is coming from the mechanical fuel pump. It appears to be leaking
> from the body of the pump, not the connections on top.
>
> We already have an electric fuel pump. Can I just bypass the mechanical
> pump? If so, how? Some kind of fitting between the rubber hose as the
> hard line to the carb?? Do I need to physically remove the pump and block
> off the hole, or ?? Hints appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
i added an elect. pump and cut off the lower fitting of the mech. pump and slipped on the rubber hose. i ran it like that for awhile but could hear the pump squeaking so i removed it and made a block off plate to cover the hole.
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145552 is a reply to message #145498] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 21:00 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Well, my better half was uncomfortable with not having the (redundant)
mechanical pump, so went to AppliedGMC where Nick is bravely holding
down the fort. $30 and a great deal of swearing later, the replacement
pump is installed and, so far anyway, not leaking. Looks like the old one
had been leaking for some time which wouldn't have helped fuel efficiency.
Not to mention the fire hazard.
Anyway, the advice on how to ditch the mechanical pump will be useful
when I install fuel injection this winter.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145557 is a reply to message #145552] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 21:31 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| KB wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 21:00 |
Well, my better half was uncomfortable with not having the (redundant)
mechanical pump, so went to AppliedGMC where Nick is bravely holding
down the fort. $30 and a great deal of swearing later, the replacement
pump is installed and, so far anyway, not leaking. Looks like the old one
had been leaking for some time which wouldn't have helped fuel efficiency.
Not to mention the fire hazard.
Anyway, the advice on how to ditch the mechanical pump will be useful
when I install fuel injection this winter.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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you might want to check your old pump to be sure the diaphragm wasn't ruptured and pumping gas into your oil pan.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145576 is a reply to message #145557] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 02:16 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| fred v wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 19:31 |
you might want to check your old pump to be sure the diaphragm wasn't ruptured and pumping gas into your oil pan.
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that is the reason I am not very fond of the idea of both electric and mechanical pumps. I am even less fond of the idea when the mechanical pump is old.
Most "good" parts stores will have a adapter to go on the threaded hard line to a barbed fitting. (I got one at NAPA.)
If your local parts store doesn't have a block off plate, one of our GMC suppliers should. (IE: call Jim... ) But for my one coach with an electric pump, I left the old pump on for now, just by passed it.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145577 is a reply to message #145498] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 04:13 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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There is no reason to run both the electric and the mechanical fuel pumps all the time. On my GMC and my airplane both have a mechanical and an electric fuel pump in series. On both vehicles the electric pump is only turned on when needed. On the airplane the electric pump is also turned on during take off and landing.
I suggest you do the same with your electric pump. Use is as a boost pump and not 100 percent of the time. I personally like the idea of two pumps powered by different means.
On an airplane we do the same thing with instruments. Some are electric and some are vacuum powered. Instrument pilots practice flying on just the electric or just vacuum powered instruments. Over the years I have suffered from a complete vacuum failure and a complete electrical failure. The electrical failure was at night in really bad weather. I ended up lading at an unlighted airport just ahead of a severe line of thunderstorms. I found the airport and shot an improvised localizer approach with a battery powered GPS and the vacuum powered instruments. After landing when I telephoned Grissom AFB approach controller who I had been working at the time of the failure. He told me that he watched me on radar and I had shot that approach just as it was published with my limited instruments. (He could not tell my altitude).
My point out of all of this is redundancy does work when necessary. I would keep the redundancy. Dual electric pumps would also work for redundancy if powered off of two different sources. I guess you really need to decide what needs to be redundant and what doesn't. On aircraft we have two ignition systems that will run independent of each other without 12 VDC electric. Do you need that on a GMC?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145584 is a reply to message #145577] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 07:45 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ken, what power source should i use for my pump. i no longer have an isolator and use a combiner. i cannot get another wire on the boost relay.
what i've done is connect the elec. pump to the yellow wire i removed from the heater box on the left side. however i notice that at idle speed my digi panel bat. meter goes to the yellow light but if i switch off the pump it goes to green. sometimes even at speed the yellow light comes on along with the green.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145585 is a reply to message #145552] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 08:08 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| KB wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 22:00 |
Well, my better half was uncomfortable with not having the (redundant)
mechanical pump, so went to AppliedGMC where Nick is bravely holding down the fort. $30 and a great deal of swearing later, the replacement pump is installed and, so far anyway, not leaking. Looks like the old one had been leaking for some time which wouldn't have helped fuel efficiency.
Not to mention the fire hazard.
Anyway, the advice on how to ditch the mechanical pump will be useful when I install fuel injection this winter.
thanks,
Karen
|
Karen,
I am all in favor or redundancy, but (imho) that is a poor choice of how to do it.
Reasons:
The electric pump, when not running will help induce vapor lock.
If the mechanical pump fails by leaking, the electric will cause it to leak more.
Aircraft have a very special problem. Cars don't fall off the road, and boats won't sink (right away) if the engine stops, but little airplanes do come down when the motor quits. This tends to make people like Ken a little (OK a Lot) paranoid.
Better in the case of a GMC is to have two electric pumps (wired in Emery fashion so they are selected by the dashboard switch) and no mechanical pump at all.
But!! That means you only have one power source for fuel pumps!!
So, if you loose engine electric power, you aren't going anywhere anyway and danger is only if you don't get off the roadway. (ref p2 above)
With two electric pumps, you can also have two separate fuel filters and actually have complete redundancy to the carburetor or throttle body.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145599 is a reply to message #145585] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 08:51 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I don't disagree with what you've noted, however, as I have reported a number of times already since JimB installed the little
electric Facet (1-4 psi outlet) fuel pump in the line that goes from the Aux tank to the selector valve and powered it with power
supply to the selector valve I have not had any problems with vapor lock.
My tanks are not insulated; my fuel lines are not insulated. The moment I feel a stutter on a hot day I switch to Aux and Bob's your
Uncle the engine settles down immediately.
I have forgotten to switch it off on a number of occasions and never had a problem with it.
I am aware that if there is problem with the diaphragm in the fuel pump the crankcase could be pumped full. You mentioned dual
diaphragm pumps awhile back and I may have found a pump that can be made into a dual diaphragm pump because it isn't a sealed unit
and can be disassembled (eBay item 380373665832). I'm trying to find out who makes it and where I can get spares.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Karen,
I am all in favor or redundancy, but (imho) that is a poor choice of how to do it.
Reasons:
The electric pump, when not running will help induce vapor lock.
If the mechanical pump fails by leaking, the electric will cause it to leak more.
Aircraft have a very special problem. Cars don't fall off the road, and boats won't sink (right away) if the engine stops, but
little airplanes do come down when the motor quits. This tends to make people like Ken a little (OK a Lot) paranoid.
Better in the case of a GMC is to have two electric pumps (wired in Emery fashion so they are selected by the dashboard switch) and
no mechanical pump at all.
But!! That means you only have one power source for fuel pumps!!
So, if you loose engine electric power, you aren't going anywhere anyway and danger is only if you don't get off the roadway. (ref
p2 above)
With two electric pumps, you can also have two separate fuel filters and actually have complete redundancy to the carburetor or
throttle body.
Matt
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145606 is a reply to message #145603] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 09:35 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 10:00 |
I cannot understand this obsession with mechanical pumps
- there is not a single car using mechanical pumps
- they suck when they should push to stop vapor lock
- they are very hard to replace
- they locate the fuel lines where you do not want them
- they kill engines
- they do not work with efi upgrades
- they destroy engines when they leak
- they leak fuel on the engines that catches fire
-I cannot find one single good reason to keep them
- why??????
mumble,mumble, snort, snort
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
|
Maybe not but...
I sure can
-- If you have a good carburetor and cannot afford fuel injection (probably ever), you don't need much fuel pressure.
-- They are stone reliable. (I've replaced 3 electric @2~400$us ea)
-- They do not need copper wires that corrode with road salt
-- They can be replaced without having to drain the tank and disassemble half the vehicle (in tank pumps only)
-- The worst fuel leak I have ever had was fed by an electric pump
-- They usually give plenty of waring that they are failing and do not leave you with a "walk home"
I just went two out of three falls (and won) another fight with the Tracker in-tank pump.
The Vega motor had an electric fuel pump because they left to option out of the engine design criteria (Oops).
I had other older cars with electric pumps and they were always a problem. The MCG was a nightmare and left me on the road a couple of times.
In the last 50 years, I bet I haven't replaced or rebuilt more than an half dozen mechanical pumps. That sample is based on sample of some 40+ engines in cars, trucks, motorhomes, outboards and marine engines, and yard equipment. Most of these had mechanical fuel pumps but only few ever ran on gasahol.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145609 is a reply to message #145606] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 10:11 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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What's an MCG?
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
1969 MGC
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 10:00
> > I cannot understand this obsession with mechanical pumps
> >
> > - there is not a single car using mechanical pumps
> > - they suck when they should push to stop vapor lock
> > - they are very hard to replace
> > - they locate the fuel lines where you do not want them
> > - they kill engines
> > - they do not work with efi upgrades
> > - they destroy engines when they leak
> > - they leak fuel on the engines that catches fire
> > -I cannot find one single good reason to keep them
> > - why??????
> >
> > mumble,mumble, snort, snort
> > gene
> > --
> > Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>
> Maybe not but...
> I sure can
> -- If you have a good carburetor and cannot afford fuel injection (probably
> ever), you don't need much fuel pressure.
> -- They are stone reliable. (I've replaced 3 electric @2~400$us ea)
> -- They do not need copper wires that corrode with road salt
> -- They can be replaced without having to drain the tank and disassemble
> half the vehicle (in tank pumps only)
> -- The worst fuel leak I have ever had was fed by an electric pump
> -- They usually give plenty of waring that they are failing and do not
> leave you with a "walk home"
>
> I just went two out of three falls (and won) another fight with the Tracker
> in-tank pump.
>
> The Vega motor had an electric fuel pump because they left to option out of
> the engine design criteria (Oops).
>
> I had other older cars with electric pumps and they were always a problem.
> The MCG was a nightmare and left me on the road a couple of times.
>
> In the last 50 years, I bet I haven't replaced or rebuilt more than an half
> dozen mechanical pumps. That sample is based on sample of some 40+ engines
> in cars, trucks, motorhomes, outboards and marine engines, and yard
> equipment. Most of these had mechanical fuel pumps but only few ever ran on
> gasahol.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump? [message #145610 is a reply to message #145609] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 10:16 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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A Leyland British car sports. Heavy in the front.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Tom Eckert <gmcrv1@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] remove mechanical fuel pump?
What's an MCG?
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
1969 MGC
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mr ERFisher wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 10:00
> > I cannot understand this obsession with mechanical pumps
> >
> > - there is not a single car using mechanical pumps
> > - they suck when they should push to stop vapor lock
> > - they are very hard to replace
> > - they locate the fuel lines where you do not want them
> > - they kill engines
> > - they do not work with efi upgrades
> > - they destroy engines when they leak
> > - they leak fuel on the engines that catches fire
> > -I cannot find one single good reason to keep them
> > - why??????
> >
> > mumble,mumble, snort, snort
> > gene
> > --
> > Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>
> Maybe not but...
> I sure can
> -- If you have a good carburetor and cannot afford fuel injection (probably
> ever), you don't need much fuel pressure.
> -- They are stone reliable. (I've replaced 3 electric @2~400$us ea)
> -- They do not need copper wires that corrode with road salt
> -- They can be replaced without having to drain the tank and disassemble
> half the vehicle (in tank pumps only)
> -- The worst fuel leak I have ever had was fed by an electric pump
> -- They usually give plenty of waring that they are failing and do not
> leave you with a "walk home"
>
> I just went two out of three falls (and won) another fight with the Tracker
> in-tank pump.
>
> The Vega motor had an electric fuel pump because they left to option out of
> the engine design criteria (Oops).
>
> I had other older cars with electric pumps and they were always a problem.
> The MCG was a nightmare and left me on the road a couple of times.
>
> In the last 50 years, I bet I haven't replaced or rebuilt more than an half
> dozen mechanical pumps. That sample is based on sample of some 40+ engines
> in cars, trucks, motorhomes, outboards and marine engines, and yard
> equipment. Most of these had mechanical fuel pumps but only few ever ran on
> gasahol.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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