Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Examples of Ethanol Damage
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| Re: [GMCnet] Examples of Ethanol Damage [message #145047 is a reply to message #145046] |
Thu, 29 September 2011 19:49   |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Is there esomething we could ask the government to do for us that would help?
I mean, obviously we can't form a lobby sufficient to push back the inertia of corn fuel, even if all the classic car guys in the country got together.
But if there was some reasonable concession we could seek that would give us good fuel without stopping the other side completely, then it would be fun to seek it.
Imagine thousands of classic vehicles descending on Washington on some saturday in the early spring.
It would be a really great visual. Press coverage would be HUGE.
But if all we can do is offer demands for somthing we have no hope of getting then there's not much point.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Examples of Ethanol Damage [message #145078 is a reply to message #145047] |
Fri, 30 September 2011 12:28 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Obviously, we don't have enough money to "buy" any of the politicians to get us away from ethanol, so lets look at a different approach.
is there anything out there that might keep the damage at bay.
SeaFoam?? Pri-G?? Stabil?? any other gas additive that would be helpful?? AnyOne?
I had the gas hoses replaced 6 years ago, now i have to be concerned with our governments idea of pollution control eating up my rubber hoses... What a concept.
This video points out a lot of things that I was suspicious of. It proves to me it is just a battle to keep an older vehicle and storage seems to be out of the question.
What is this stuff doing to injection cars. It seems to me if it can fill the passages and ports of a carborator, the injectors must be equally or more so at risk. Didn't think you injection guys were gonna miss all the fun, did you???
Chemically speaking, there must be something to keep the effects of Ethanol under control for our Antique vehicles.
I have a motorcycle that has a lot of down time. Three years ago, it began to run terribly. The shop overhauled the carb twice with minimum difference in operation, bad idle, power surge, power drop outs on acceleration.
With all the comments here about SEAFOAM, I put this in the tank iand after about 10 miles it started to clear up. Now she runs like new. Is this product a posible item to combat the Ethanol Bandit that we are forced to put in our tanks??
The video shows a lot of costly damage, we really need to put our heads together and find something to combat this damaging fuel.
My view
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
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| Re: [GMCnet] Examples of Ethanol Damage [message #145107 is a reply to message #145078] |
Fri, 30 September 2011 16:56 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Larry C wrote on Fri, 30 September 2011 13:28 |
<snip>
Chemically speaking, there must be something to keep the effects of Ethanol under control for our Antique vehicles.
I have a motorcycle that has a lot of down time. Three years ago, it began to run terribly. The shop overhauled the carb twice with minimum difference in operation, bad idle, power surge, power drop outs on acceleration.
With all the comments here about SEAFOAM, I put this in the tank iand after about 10 miles it started to clear up. Now she runs like new. Is this product a posible item to combat the Ethanol Bandit that we are forced to put in our tanks??
The video shows a lot of costly damage, we really need to put our heads together and find something to combat this damaging fuel.
My view
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Larry,
I don't know exactly what Seafoam is, but such things cannot prevent damage to elasomers (rubber sort of stuff) by chemical attack. If whatever the rubber doesn't like is there, it will cause damage, it is just a matter of time. The best thing we can do with a GMC is to keep water out of the fuel by keeping the tanks full.
Most likely, it worked in your bike because it cleared something that the shop had neglected to clean properly. I have know this too happen with many things that don't get run enough to stay clean.
A local boat owner got some attention when he started topping off the tanks as a part of winter storage. The people started to notice that he didn't have any problems at launching time.
When I tell you he topped them up, I mean really topping up (pressing up - as marine people would say), like bring the boat in the lift from the gas dock and then using gas cans until the vent poured fuel. The marine gas is supposed to be ethanol free, but it still shows 1~2%.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Examples of Ethanol Damage [message #145115 is a reply to message #145107] |
Fri, 30 September 2011 17:51 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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This email is supposedly being circulated in Florida. There's more common sense in this one email than I normally expect to find from a politician. Let's hope he's successful and perhaps the actions will spread to other states.
Received the below email message from Dist. 4 Representative Matt Gaetz (Florida House of Representatives).
Dear Friends,
Some members of the Florida Legislature gauge their success or failure on the number of laws they are able to enact. I think a little differently. When my time in the legislature ends, I’ll always be proudest of the outdated, burdensome and sometimes downright silly laws and regulations I fought to repeal.
One prime example is the Florida requirement that gasoline sold in our state contain between nine and ten percent ethanol – which I hope to scrap during the upcoming legislative session.
The Florida ethanol mandate became law in 2008. The argument was that ethanol use could reduce carbon emissions and create “green jobs” in our state given the prolific sugar growing in South Florida. We now know the benefits of ethanol were overstated and the negative consequences overlooked.
Today, government is literally crawling into our gas cans with a product that can be harmful to our engines, our economy and our environment alike.
And with soaring gas prices impacting our pocketbooks, government should not mandate a product that cuts miles per gallon. Modest estimates show that Florida’s ethanol mandate is costing drivers a minimum of 75 dollars per year – putting the most significant financial burden on drivers living paycheck to paycheck. That's unacceptable.
Auto manufacturers are so concerned about the corrosive impacts of ethanol on engines that they are warning consumers. Hyundai, for example, tells buyers, “the use of ethanol may result in negative effects to cold starting, as well as engine driveability…it will also result in reduced fuel economy.” Of specific interest to Floridians, the harm is even more pronounced with boat and lawnmower engines.
But more than engines are harmed by our ethanol policy. The effect of ethanol mandates on global food prices (and the impact to hungry people around the world) raises serious moral concerns with using corn as energy.
There are 3 billion malnourished people on earth – more than ever before in human history. Corn and grains make up over 80 percent of food intake worldwide. The U.S. has played a major role in feeding the world with our corn exports tripling over the last decade. If more corn is inefficiently converted to ethanol - and not exported - our trade deficit will worsen and poor people depending on our food exports will die.
Would harm to our engines, our economy and the most vulnerable people in the world be worthwhile if we could reduce dependence on foreign oil and help our environment? Maybe to some. The problem is that ethanol is an energy loser with serious environmental dangers.
A Cornell University research study concludes that ethanol generates a 29% energy loss, meaning it takes more than a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol. Even the Obama Administration’s EPA issued a 2009 report showing that ethanol mandates will increase carbon emissions in the short term and may need to be in effect for 100 years before significant reductions are realized.
Ethanol production is also highly water-intensive. It takes 1,700 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. In a state where water resources are scarce, diverting and polluting large amounts water is hardly an investment in a clean future.
Contrary to the promises, no substantial “green industry” has emerged from the ethanol mandate. By 2009, nine percent of all ethanol plants had gone bankrupt. With sugar prices climbing, the vast majority of ethanol used in Florida is corn-based and shipped from other states. Higher costs, borne by Floridians, are needlessly subsidizing corporate welfare for a distant corn industry.
As a nation, we must never end the search for efficient energy alternatives. Ethanol, however, is an affront to the efficiency we covet. Hopefully federal lawmakers will realize this reality if states like Florida show leadership.
The best way to unlock America’s energy potential is to reduce the red tape government winds around innovators and cutting edge research. When we unleash investment in new technology, more creative outcomes can be generated in the private sector by the forces of a free market.
Energy independence is the challenge of a generation – but we won’t meet that challenge with costly “feel-good” laws that hurt people. Repealing Florida’s ethanol mandate is a good place to start.
Warmest Regards,
Matt
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Examples of Ethanol Damage [message #145132 is a reply to message #145046] |
Fri, 30 September 2011 21:41 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I recieved a copy of the presentation from legislative@historicvehicle.org.
It is a rather big file at 8mb and has a lot of good information regarding the ethanol problem.
Gene, it might be worthwhile if you got a copy and ask if you could put it on your website.
I'd send it to you but I filed it somewhere and for the life of me I can't find the bloody thing!
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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