Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Question for Electrical/ Battery experts ( New 4D 1250 amp battery charge life?)
| Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143018] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 18:23  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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How long should a new fully charged battery last before it is dead if it is only running an original 12V reefer in a 1976 Glenbrook?
The battery is a new Interstate 4D XHD rated at 1250 amps and 1000 CCA.
I have no idea how much the draw was when the reefer was new or what it is now and I have no way to measure it. Any suggestions?
Original buzz box converter/charger is still in the coach but is not working.
Thanks for your help.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143027 is a reply to message #143018] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 19:57  |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| gbarrow wrote on Sun, 11 September 2011 16:23 |
How long should a new fully charged battery last before it is dead if it is only running an original 12V reefer in a 1976 Glenbrook?
The battery is a new Interstate 4D XHD rated at 1250 amps and 1000 CCA.
I have no idea how much the draw was when the reefer was new or what it is now and I have no way to measure it. Any suggestions?
Original buzz box converter/charger is still in the coach but is not working.
Thanks for your help.
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First you might like to read my article on the original Norcold 12/120 volt compressor refrigerator. Probably more than you care to know.
http://www.bdub.net/Refrigeration_in_the_GMC.pdf
On average a Norcold with a reasonable original chopper inverter will draw in the range of 4 to 5 amps and have a duty cycle around 60% in moderate weather.
The specs on the 4D battery you mention indicate it may have a 295 AH capacity although I find that hard to believe, since it only weighs 95# and two golf cart batteries in series have a capacity of about 220 AH + - and weigh 125# for the pair. In general battery weight is a good indication of overall capacity. So, If I believe the 295 number and divide that by 4.5 amps average draw, you get about 65 hours of use. Now, you NEVER want to fully discharge any battery, it is very hard on them. Typical recommendations are in the range of a 50% discharge cycle before recharge.
If the battery is not fully charged with a good 3 stage converter/charger you will have less capacity, sometimes lots less. Your buzz box is not working, so how are you charging the battery? You need a PD 92xx to replace it.
When I had my GMC with the original Norcold, and with the modifications I mention in the article above, I could go roughly 2 days on a charge, with some moderate other use of power, with 2 golf cart type batteries.
So, lots of variables, but that gives you some rough idea.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143060 is a reply to message #143033] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 06:55 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Rob, Dan, & Emery,
Thanks for the info.
The coach is not mine; I'm delivering it from Boston to San Francisco for the owner. So, I'm limited in what I am willing and able to do while on the road.
I have already replaced the new alternator with another new one after 1/2 day of driving.
When I discovered that the buzz box wasn't working and the house batt was dead I stopped at Wall Mart to have the batt replaced if necessary. I was surprised to find that the batt was new.
It took about 2 hours for the Wall Mart automatic charger to charge and verify the battery condition.
I re-installed the battery and drove about 1 1/2 hours. The only load on the batt was the reefer. After stopping I ran the 2 original roof vent fans (load unknown). The battery was dead again within 2 hours.
I used a jumper across the boost solenoid while driving yesterday for about 2 hours to recharge the house batt.
I checked for a load on each of the other house 12v circuits by removing and re-installing the fuses. I got a spark only if I had a switch turned on on any circuit. I then removed all the fuses except the reefer. I don't know how much charge was in the battery but it only ran the reefer for a couple of hours.
I can continue to recharge with the jumper while driving.
How can I determine when/if the batt is fully charged? How can I determine what the reefer is drawing; without pulling it out of the cabinet?
How can I check for any hidden loads.
If I can't fix this I will charge the batt and run the reefer while driving, and turn the reefer off each night. It will stay cold overnight and I can use the power for a reading light.
My HF multimeter reads +-14 volts at both batteries when the alternator is running.
All comments are appreciated.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143066 is a reply to message #143060] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 08:38 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I was running a conventional dual purpose marine "deep cycle battery". and it was dead in less then 12 hours. it went from 12+ volts to 11 in less then a few hours. and was at 10 volts in less then 12 hours.
that was running primarily the fridge, and maybe a light or two occasionally. does not take long to drain a "normal battery". Was a fight to keep it charged up.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143069 is a reply to message #143066] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 08:57 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Jon, for the rest of the trip I would suggest that you turn off the
refrigerator and the next time that you pass by a wal mart buy a cheepo
styrofoam ice chest and bag ice to keep your beverages cold, and drive west
until your hat floats. Electric refrigerators and batteries are not the
ideal solution. I have a 3 way in my coach. It has 120 V heater for the
refrigerant, a propane heater, and a 12 v heater that is powered from a
relay that is energized from the engine alternator. When the engine runs, it
works on 12 volts supplied from the alternator, when the engine stops and
you are plugged in or running on the Onan, it switches to 120 V, or you can
manually switch to propane when shore power or generator power is not
available, as the case might be when dry camping. Works well for me. Fridge
is Dometic. Coach is a 78 Royale upfitted by Jimmy Industries, a division of
Coachman RVs.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Jon Roche <lqqkatjon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I was running a conventional dual purpose marine "deep cycle battery". and
> it was dead in less then 12 hours. it went from 12+ volts to 11 in less
> then a few hours. and was at 10 volts in less then 12 hours.
>
> that was running primarily the fridge, and maybe a light or two
> occasionally. does not take long to drain a "normal battery". Was a fight
> to keep it charged up.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143071 is a reply to message #143060] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 09:15 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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It sounds like you have a bad isolator. The jumper will bypass that problem. Just remember to disconnect it at night when you are not running the engine. Stop by Wally World and get a bag or two of ice and a deep throw away pan like you would roast a turkey in. Put the ice in the pan and the pan in the freezer. That along with running the frig during the day will keep every thing cold for your trip.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143081 is a reply to message #143075] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 11:59 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 12 September 2011 08:35 |
Would a cheap Wally World battery charger provide enough amperage to charge the battery while Gene sleeps?
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When I heard it was for transporting a coach, that was my first idea. He could keep the charger, or sell it to the actual coach owner.
Just stay away from the cheap 'smart' chargers. (Like the Harbor Freight.) If a battery isn't close to 12v, it thinks it is a 6v battery and WILL not charge it, unless paralleled with a charged battery.
As long as you are plugged in, a cheap DUMB (with switches, not buttons) charger should do the trick.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143122 is a reply to message #143071] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 17:22 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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Ken, Rob,& Mike,
Turkey tray and ice bags are a good idea and basically what I am doing now.
Don't think I will need an external charger since I am charging the battery through my jumper while under way. If I happen to stop at Camp Wally for the night I can't use a charger any way.
I will remove the reefer fuse when I stop for the night(no battery drain)
Ice in the turkey tray and a cold reefer will last overnight with no problem.
I am very careful to make sure I remove the jumper any time I stop. Don't want to lose power in the engine battery. However, it seems to me that if I ever get the house battery "fully charged" and if there is no load on it, it should not draw down the engine battery.
Ken, you're right about the isolater; there isn't one. It has been replaced with a solenoid that looks the boost switch; I'm not sure what it does.
Thanks for the ideas.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143157 is a reply to message #143018] |
Mon, 12 September 2011 21:00 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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Gene,
I'm probably one of the last holdouts with the old electric fridge. I have a combiner, which essentially does automatically what you are doing with your jumper manually. If your driving 4+ hours at a time, that should do a pretty good job of both charging the house battery and run the refrigerator. (probably wants to be at least a 12 gauge jumper, though.) For reasons I'm not completely clear on, the alternator never does as good a job of charging the battteries as my 3 stage Prosine Inverter/Charger. Almost any decently working battery should be able to run the fridge overnight, but it will be pretty low in the morning. I've been using some of Rob Allen's techniques to modify my fridge, and happen to know for sure that it takes about 6-7 amps while running, depending on what I'm using for an inverter, ambient temp, and how long it's been running. On mine, the lowest amp draw is just before the thermostat turns it off. Duty cycle is hard to say and dependent on coach and outdoor temp, but I would say runs between 50 and 75%. I use 2 6 v. agm's which have pretty good capacity, but I must run too much other stuff, as I can't get more than 1 night out of them without re-charging. A volt meter is the way to know how charged your battery is. It varies very slightly with temp, (only about .1 volt from 20 to 120 with hotter being the higher reading). The chart I found for example with open circuit (no loads) at 80 F temp, for a conventional lead acid battery's state of charge 100% is 12.650 volts, 75% is 12.450 v., 50% is 12.240 v., and 25% is 12.060 v. For various reasons, it's pretty hard to get above about 80% state of charge, and a bad idea to go much below 30% (even for ultra-sophisticated Lithium Ion systems in Chevy Volts).
One other thing, is don't open the door unless you have to. I've now started using a cooler for most drinks and the fridge for food. (you wouldn't guess it by looking, but I drink more than I eat . . .) If you don't open the door a lot on mine, a setting of 2 or 3, on the fridge keeps things cold enough, and a higher setting just burns batteries without adding much more cold. As I've been experimenting with power management strategies, I had mine running for a week straight (running off 12 v., but battery on a plugged in charger), and on the 3 setting, I froze a 2 litre bottle of pop on the top shelf of the fridge.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143209 is a reply to message #143033] |
Tue, 13 September 2011 13:15 |
UziYaH
Messages: 282
Registered: July 2007
Location: 10-O-C
Karma: 0
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After having 'fried' my deep cycle house battery with my 'buzz-box', I am now looking for a way to keep my batteries up while being plugged into a land line. My needs are for something with enough amps to keep my batteries up while sleeping with a C-PAK breathing machine along with running our furnace in cold weather. We use only AC or LP for our refridg.
I am currently using a Schumaker 2 amp trickle to 6 amp charger designed for marine use. Will this work?
If not, brother Chuck Boyd suggested something from Progressive Dynamics, and an other suggested PD's model 92XX which I am unable to find. What Progressive Dynamis model would be best suited for our use, if deemed needed?
Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Howard Nylander
Royale Class of '78'
Greeneville, Tn.
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Cc: gene barrow <barrowgene@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts
On Sep 11, 2011, at 7:23 PM, gene barrow wrote:
>
>
> How long should a new fully charged battery last before it is dead if it is only running an original 12V reefer in a 1976 Glenbrook?
>
> The battery is a new Interstate 4D XHD rated at 1250 amps and 1000 CCA.
>
> I have no idea how much the draw was when the reefer was new or what it is now and I have no way to measure it. Any suggestions?
>
> Original buzz box converter/charger is still in the coach but is not working.
>
> Thanks for your help.
> --
> Gene Barrow
It has been reported that it draws about 9 amps and runs about 75% of the time. Of course this can vary with outside temperature.
First of all you should never use a 4D battery for the house battery. This is a diesel starting battery and is not designed for deep discharge or repeated discharge / charge cycles.
When you replace it again use two 6 volt gold cart batteries in series to get 12 volts. These will give you much better service. You should never use a starting battery for a "house" battery in a motorhome. Here is a site that gives you some info: http://rvservices.koa.com/rvinformation/rvmaintenance/what-you-need-to-know-about-your-rv-batteries.asp
If you assume that you discharge the battery to 50% before the voltage is down below where it is good to use, the "reserve capacity of that battery according to Interstates web site is 295. Divide that by 9 and by .75 and you will get 43 hours of operation. That assumes that you do not use any 12 volt lights or other things in your motorhome.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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Howard Nylander
Royale Class of "78" "Rocinate"
E-10-o-C
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143211 is a reply to message #143209] |
Tue, 13 September 2011 13:31 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| UziYaH wrote on Tue, 13 September 2011 13:15 |
After having 'fried' my deep cycle house battery with my 'buzz-box', I am now looking for a way to keep my batteries up while being plugged into a land line. My needs are for something with enough amps to keep my batteries up while sleeping with a C-PAK breathing machine along with running our furnace in cold weather. We use only AC or LP for our refridg.
I am currently using a Schumaker 2 amp trickle to 6 amp charger designed for marine use. Will this work?
If not, brother Chuck Boyd suggested something from Progressive Dynamics, and an other suggested PD's model 92XX which I am unable to find. What Progressive Dynamis model would be best suited for our use, if deemed needed?
Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Howard Nylander
Royale Class of '78'
Greeneville, Tn.
|
Howard,
Many replace the buzz box with Prgressive Dynamics PD 9245, several sellers have them on ebay -- $115 and up.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143212 is a reply to message #143211] |
Tue, 13 September 2011 13:34 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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It's a multi stage charger that is much kinder to batteries.
Do you run your CPAP on 12v or 110vac?
I've had much better success with it on 12v when traveling. They are a fairly high drain device (mine was just under 1.5 amps).
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
On Sep 13, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>
>
> UziYaH wrote on Tue, 13 September 2011 13:15
>> After having 'fried' my deep cycle house battery with my 'buzz-box', I am now looking for a way to keep my batteries up while being plugged into a land line. My needs are for something with enough amps to keep my batteries up while sleeping with a C-PAK breathing machine along with running our furnace in cold weather. We use only AC or LP for our refridg.
>>
>> I am currently using a Schumaker 2 amp trickle to 6 amp charger designed for marine use. Will this work?
>>
>> If not, brother Chuck Boyd suggested something from Progressive Dynamics, and an other suggested PD's model 92XX which I am unable to find. What Progressive Dynamis model would be best suited for our use, if deemed needed?
>>
>> Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Howard Nylander
>> Royale Class of '78'
>> Greeneville, Tn.
>>
>>
>
>
> Howard,
>
> Many replace the buzz box with Prgressive Dynamics PD 9245, several sellers have them on ebay -- $115 and up.
>
> Dennis
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143213 is a reply to message #143211] |
Tue, 13 September 2011 13:46 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| Dennis S wrote on Tue, 13 September 2011 13:31 |
| UziYaH wrote on Tue, 13 September 2011 13:15 |
After having 'fried' my deep cycle house battery with my 'buzz-box', I am now looking for a way to keep my batteries up while being plugged into a land line. My needs are for something with enough amps to keep my batteries up while sleeping with a C-PAK breathing machine along with running our furnace in cold weather. We use only AC or LP for our refridg.
I am currently using a Schumaker 2 amp trickle to 6 amp charger designed for marine use. Will this work?
If not, brother Chuck Boyd suggested something from Progressive Dynamics, and an other suggested PD's model 92XX which I am unable to find. What Progressive Dynamis model would be best suited for our use, if deemed needed?
Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Howard Nylander
Royale Class of '78'
Greeneville, Tn.
|
Howard,
Many replace the buzz box with Prgressive Dynamics PD 9245, several sellers have them on ebay -- $115 and up.
Dennis
|
Howard,
Here is a link to a PD9260 Progressive Dynamics converter install..
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3953
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question for Electrical/ Battery experts [message #143218 is a reply to message #143212] |
Tue, 13 September 2011 14:56 |
UziYaH
Messages: 282
Registered: July 2007
Location: 10-O-C
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Dolph, ...In stating, "It's a multi stage charger that is much kinder to batteries", are you referring to the Progressive Dynamic's unit or my Schumaker charger/maintainer? I would think your statement to be correct regarding both, but my concern is that, when dry camping, the use of my furnace and CPAP machine will run my batteries down and leave me needing assistance. Would my Shumaker unit work sufficiently to prevent this or should I opt for the Progressive Dynamic unit?
I run my CPAP on 12v when dry camping and 110vac when it is available. I also have an 'in-house' deep cycle battery and inverter I use for back-up when our home electricity fails. Works good too, but then I'm not also running a furnace for heating.
Also, while writing this, it dawned on me that I can easily isolate my coach starting battery (by pulling a gate switch) and leave it to start my coach and then power up everything else.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Howard Nylander
Royale Class of '78'
Greeneville, TN
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Howard Nylander
Royale Class of "78" "Rocinate"
E-10-o-C
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