Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Good News -- NOT
| Good News -- NOT [message #142145] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 17:47  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Well I sorta got an answer to my timing chain and cam questions.
Decided I oughta do a compression test before I got into doing a lot. All cylinders came out between 145-160, except #1. #1 was 25, rats I hate it when that happens. Did the oil test, got 140 or so. Put air on the cylinder. Exhaust was quiet, intake same. I didn't even need the hose to hear the air flow into the crank case.
Rats, Rats, Rats, (substitute other words here as desired.)
Now it appears the question is, out the top, out the bottom, or pull the subframe?
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Good News -- NOT [message #142150 is a reply to message #142145] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 18:06  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| midlf wrote on Fri, 02 September 2011 17:47 |
Well I sorta got an answer to my timing chain and cam questions.
Decided I oughta do a compression test before I got into doing a lot. All cylinders came out between 145-160, except #1. #1 was 25, rats I hate it when that happens. Did the oil test, got 140 or so. Put air on the cylinder. Exhaust was quiet, intake same. I didn't even need the hose to hear the air flow into the crank case.
Rats, Rats, Rats, (substitute other words here as desired.)
Now it appears the question is, out the top, out the bottom, or pull the subframe?
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It probably is a broken ring but you will be very unhappy if you pull it all down just to find the the ring(s) are just gunked up.
Before I pulled the engine I would run that cylinder to TDC. Pull the spark plug and fill the cylinder with ATF or marvel mystery oil. Let it soak at least over night or longer. After the waiting period, crank the engine over a few times to expel the ATF and replace the plug. Now go drive it and see what happens. It will initially smoke while it burns off the remaining ATF. On an airplane engine we usually run them 10 hours before rechecking the compression. In your case it is up to you how long you run it before you give up and pull the engine.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT [message #142153 is a reply to message #142145] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 18:12 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Oh brother, NOT good news at all ! Sorry to hear this.
I have a chain block if you need one. Also, if you need another pair of hand,
let me know.
I can just imagine what those other words were !
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, September 2, 2011 5:47:46 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT
Well I sorta got an answer to my timing chain and cam questions.
Decided I oughta do a compression test before I got into doing a lot. All
cylinders came out between 145-160, except #1. #1 was 25, rats I hate it when
that happens. Did the oil test, got 140 or so. Put air on the cylinder.
Exhaust was quiet, intake same. I didn't even need the hose to hear the air
flow into the crank case.
Rats, Rats, Rats, (substitute other words here as desired.)
Now it appears the question is, out the top, out the bottom, or pull the
subframe?
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT [message #142169 is a reply to message #142145] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 19:26 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Steve,
IIRC when Helen and I visited you noted that it was your plan to go through Smurfie end to end before you put him/her(?) on the
road. Taking that into consideration I was going to suggest pulling the front frame as it would make it a lot easier to do the front
suspension and steering. I then checked your photo site and noted that you have already rebuilt the front suspension.
However, I still think that's the way to go as you will be able to get into the engine bay and clean it all up and insulated it for
noise and sound.
While it's out there's fair few other projects that will be easier to accomplish too.
Look at this in a positive light, when you get done you will KNOW that the engine is as good as it gets.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Southworth
Well I sorta got an answer to my timing chain and cam questions.
Decided I oughta do a compression test before I got into doing a lot. All cylinders came out between 145-160, except #1. #1 was
25, rats I hate it when that happens. Did the oil test, got 140 or so. Put air on the cylinder. Exhaust was quiet, intake same.
I didn't even need the hose to hear the air flow into the crank case.
Rats, Rats, Rats, (substitute other words here as desired.)
Now it appears the question is, out the top, out the bottom, or pull the subframe?
--
Steve
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT [message #142174 is a reply to message #142169] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 20:14 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 02 September 2011 19:26 |
Steve,
IIRC when Helen and I visited you noted that it was your plan to go through Smurffie end to end before you put him/her(?) on the
road. Taking that into consideration I was going to suggest pulling the front frame as it would make it a lot easier to do the front
suspension and steering. I then checked your photo site and noted that you have already rebuilt the front suspension.
However, I still think that's the way to go as you will be able to get into the engine bay and clean it all up and insulated it for
noise and sound.
While it's out there's fair few other projects that will be easier to accomplish too.
Look at this in a positive light, when you get done you will KNOW that the engine is as good as it gets.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Yep - end to end was the plan. The suspension being out is not a problem as it would not take long to loosely put it together, or I could just build a dolly. I've got to build something, a gantry or a dolly and I have casters for a dolly or would have to borrow RayE's hoist to do a gantry. I do have access to a porta-power to split the sub-frame off the main.
There is an Olds engine builder in my neighborhood, Rocket Racing
http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/
that I will be giving a visit. Normally I would run from a "racing" shop. However a co-worker had a performance Olds engine redone by him and the co-worker mentioned I had a 455 in a MH. The owner immediately stated it was a GMC MH and then listed all the things that had to be done differently for the MH vs a performance car engine. His list covered all the items we usually cover here. And he sure as heck would not try to use 454 valve inserts.
Still a ways from deciding what to do.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Good News -- NOT [message #142177 is a reply to message #142150] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 20:32 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Fri, 02 September 2011 18:06 |
It probably is a broken ring but you will be very unhappy if you pull it all down just to find the the ring(s) are just gunked up.
Before I pulled the engine I would run that cylinder to TDC. Pull the spark plug and fill the cylinder with ATF or marvel mystery oil. Let it soak at least over night or longer. After the waiting period, crank the engine over a few times to expel the ATF and replace the plug. Now go drive it and see what happens. It will initially smoke while it burns off the remaining ATF. On an airplane engine we usually run them 10 hours before rechecking the compression. In your case it is up to you how long you run it before you give up and pull the engine.
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The problem I have now is that the coach is up on blocks and not drivable. I would have to complete the reassembly (suspension, fuel systems, brakes, exhaust) and not do some of the planned work (block intake crossover, timing chain, electrical rework, also not sure the radiator would make it (not leaking yet but awful green)).
The intake manifold has black carbon in the intake passages over the crossover.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=33692
There was comment when this picture was first posted that it could only come from oil, probably blow-by. It appears the source is now known. The spark plug on that cylinder is also oil fouled. All the rest of the plugs appear OK.
Question: Is it possible to de-gunk rings, somehow, without running the engine?
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT [message #142192 is a reply to message #142189] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 21:42 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Fri, 02 September 2011 21:22 |
I'd get the clip out the bottom and start talking to your local rebuilder on Tuesday. Wouldn't it be nice if you could push that front clip back in before October starts to chill the air.
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Well I do have my HVAC guy coming next week to discuss installing a furnace in the barn to replace my failed Reznor heater. (Will also have A/C)
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT [message #142207 is a reply to message #142188] |
Sat, 03 September 2011 00:53 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Not that I know of. I was just suggesting this might be the problem. There is a good chance it is not the problem. I figured for a quart of ATF and s few days soaking it was worth trying.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Good News -- NOT [message #142230 is a reply to message #142189] |
Sat, 03 September 2011 09:35 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| ljdavick wrote on Fri, 02 September 2011 19:22 |
If you are half as anal -pardon - I should say "detail oriented" as our friend with the red top and white bottom gas tanks, then this is your chance to sandblast and coat the clip.
Larry Davick
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Heeeey! I resemble that remark!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34770
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Good News -- NOT [message #142290 is a reply to message #142208] |
Sat, 03 September 2011 20:01 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Luvn737s wrote on Sat, 03 September 2011 01:05 |
Could it be a couple rings lined up and you lost compression?
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I don't know. The oil test and air test indicate it is not a valve problem. Broken ring or gaps lined up, the engine has to come out either way, or trans out so I can get at the pan bolts.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Good News -- NOT [message #143031 is a reply to message #142145] |
Sun, 11 September 2011 20:59 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| midlf wrote on Fri, 02 September 2011 17:47 |
Well I sorta got an answer to my timing chain and cam questions.
Decided I oughta do a compression test before I got into doing a lot. All cylinders came out between 145-160, except #1. #1 was 25, rats I hate it when that happens. Did the oil test, got 140 or so. Put air on the cylinder. Exhaust was quiet, intake same. I didn't even need the hose to hear the air flow into the crank case.
Rats, Rats, Rats, (substitute other words here as desired.)
Now it appears the question is, out the top, out the bottom, or pull the subframe?
|
Decided to pull the subframe (front clip). Looking at Gene's website there is a very good list of what has to be disconnected/removed to do the pull. Most of that on mine is already disconnected/removed.
Drove over and visited the folks at RocketRacingPerformance. They spent about 1-1/2 hours discussing what they thought and what they would recommend and why, and probably more important, what they would not recommend and why, for a 455 going into a GMC. Their shop is immaculate and appears to be well equipped.
I haven't yet decided if I am going to use them. The shipping cost can't be beat however as they are just 25 miles away.
The dolly I'm building for this is about half done. I'll post some pictures in the next few days.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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