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| [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141823] |
Wed, 31 August 2011 09:30  |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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I'm getting ready to go back up with my tanks. Local NAPA sells
Weatherhead brand hose, an Eaton product. It has a NITRILE inner
liner and seems to be alcohol compatible. Would some of you check
this out and let me know if you think it would be a good product to
use for vents and delivery?
Their H057 looks good for vents and suction lines:
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/W-HYOV-MC002-E3_Section_E.pdf.
H077 or H059 for pressure.
http://tinyurl.com/3zc9xbu - Page 12
<http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/Dana%20BOSTON%20WEATHERHEAD%20%AE%20HOSE%20ASSEMBLY%20Master%20Catalog.pdf>
- Page 12
I've installed the 3/4" pads between the body and frame so am planning
to glue spacer pads to the top of the fuel tanks also. This would
allow plenty of room for the vent and suction lines on top of the
tanks. Does this sound logical to ya'll?
I'd kinda like to install the electric fuel pumps in the tanks, but
don't think I've heard of a low pressure in-tank pump as of yet. I'm
still using carburetion. Still have time to make up my mind before
reinstalling the tanks.
Thanks
bdub
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141828 is a reply to message #141823] |
Wed, 31 August 2011 10:02  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bdub,
I note the H057 is rated as SAE30R7 and the HO77 is rated as SAE30R9 which are both OK for use with Ethanol. Since you run a carb
the SAE30R7 is fine with a pressure rating of 50 psi for the supply as well.
Having said that, Jim B posted some pictures of SAE30R7 on the Daily Pose that appeared to be in pretty rough shape externally. You
could read the SAE30R7 white printing on the hose easily which led me to believe it hadn't been in service long.
John Sharpe replaced the fuel line in his Spectrum with metal and personally that's the way I'd go!
You don't have to glue spacers to the tops of the tanks, just duct tape the lines to the top of the tank in the recesses.
However, this is an interesting idea! You might create a flow path for air to circulate above as well as below the tank. It might be
a good thing - airflow across the top of the tank might cool the tank. It might be a bad thing - airflow would heat the fuel. Might
not matter either way and the fuel doesn't come into constant contact with the top of the fuel tank.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Billy Massey
Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:31 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose
I'm getting ready to go back up with my tanks. Local NAPA sells
Weatherhead brand hose, an Eaton product. It has a NITRILE inner
liner and seems to be alcohol compatible. Would some of you check
this out and let me know if you think it would be a good product to
use for vents and delivery?
Their H057 looks good for vents and suction lines:
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/W-HYOV-MC002-E3_Section_E.pdf.
H077 or H059 for pressure.
http://tinyurl.com/3zc9xbu - Page 12
<http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/Dana%20BOSTON%20WEATHERHEAD%20%AE%20HOSE%20ASSEMBLY%20Master%20Catalog.pdf>
- Page 12
I've installed the 3/4" pads between the body and frame so am planning
to glue spacer pads to the top of the fuel tanks also. This would
allow plenty of room for the vent and suction lines on top of the
tanks. Does this sound logical to ya'll?
I'd kinda like to install the electric fuel pumps in the tanks, but
don't think I've heard of a low pressure in-tank pump as of yet. I'm
still using carburetion. Still have time to make up my mind before
reinstalling the tanks.
Thanks
bdub
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141942 is a reply to message #141828] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 05:44 |
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I imagine I'll go with steel lines also. That way a hole in the floor would
take care of anything that might go wrong in the future other than a hole in
the tank.
bdub
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
I note the H057 is rated as SAE30R7 and the HO77 is rated as SAE30R9 which
are both OK for use with Ethanol. Since you run a carb
the SAE30R7 is fine with a pressure rating of 50 psi for the supply as well.
Having said that, Jim B posted some pictures of SAE30R7 on the Daily Pose
that appeared to be in pretty rough shape externally. You
could read the SAE30R7 white printing on the hose easily which led me to
believe it hadn't been in service long.
John Sharpe replaced the fuel line in his Spectrum with metal and personally
that's the way I'd go!
You don't have to glue spacers to the tops of the tanks, just duct tape the
lines to the top of the tank in the recesses.
However, this is an interesting idea! You might create a flow path for air
to circulate above as well as below the tank. It might be
a good thing - airflow across the top of the tank might cool the tank. It
might be a bad thing - airflow would heat the fuel. Might
not matter either way and the fuel doesn't come into constant contact with
the top of the fuel tank.
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141949 is a reply to message #141942] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 07:14 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Billy Massey wrote on Thu, 01 September 2011 03:44 |
I imagine I'll go with steel lines also. That way a hole in the floor would take care of anything that might go wrong in the future other than a hole in
the tank.
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At the price of good fuel hose, you'll get off cheaper with steel line. (As long as you are not paying labor.) Just need one bit of some type of flex line between the frame and the motor.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141961 is a reply to message #141942] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 08:12 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Emery published a fine description of going to hard lines in his
article, (currently held hostage by GMCMI), on in-tank-fuel pumps.
using brass connectors, reduces rubber flex lines to short ,
accessible , points.
and
here is another version by ChuckG using rubber connections:
http://www.gmcpc.org/archive/3rd_fuel_tank.pdf
gene
> I imagine I'll go with steel lines also. That way a hole in the floor would
> take care of anything that might go wrong in the future other than a hole in
> the tank.
>
> bdub
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
>
> I note the H057 is rated as SAE30R7 and the HO77 is rated as SAE30R9 which
> are both OK for use with Ethanol. Since you run a carb
> the SAE30R7 is fine with a pressure rating of 50 psi for the supply as well.
>
> Having said that, Jim B posted some pictures of SAE30R7 on the Daily Pose
> that appeared to be in pretty rough shape externally. You
> could read the SAE30R7 white printing on the hose easily which led me to
> believe it hadn't been in service long.
>
> John Sharpe replaced the fuel line in his Spectrum with metal and personally
> that's the way I'd go!
>
> You don't have to glue spacers to the tops of the tanks, just duct tape the
> lines to the top of the tank in the recesses.
>
> However, this is an interesting idea! You might create a flow path for air
> to circulate above as well as below the tank. It might be
> a good thing - airflow across the top of the tank might cool the tank. It
> might be a bad thing - airflow would heat the fuel. Might
> not matter either way and the fuel doesn't come into constant contact with
> the top of the fuel tank.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and -------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141993 is a reply to message #141986] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 11:19 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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I gotta concur with Emery on this. If corrosion is really a problem a
liberal painting with POR15 slopped all over the connections and steel tube
on the top of the tanks would probably outlive all of us. With that said,
considering the relatively low cost of generic -6 Stainless steel braided
fuel hose from Summit Racing and the fact that you really do use fewer
fittings with hose and its easier to install I would give that a serious
look as well. My only concern with hard line is doing decent inverted flares
without cracking the tube and then all the fittings and connections. With SS
hose its "one and done".
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose
> Rob
>
> I have to cordially disagree with you on this.
>
> Stainless steel is probably the best for corrosion but it is really a
> problem? I think that about all automotobile manufacturers use plain
> steel.
> Stainless is much harder to flare if you should want a flare fitting.
> Copper is more susceptible to cracking if there is any vibration.
> Aluminum would be more prone to corrosion and being soft it can easily be
> damages by impact or frequent tightening or loosening of the fittings.
>
> You say steel would be last but I just don't see that. I have had steel
> lines on for my fuel for several years not and I have no rusting or other
> problems.
>
> If you are worried about corrosion from dissimilar metals then steel would
> be the best since your frame is steel.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> Discounting the costs involved I reckon the best tubing to use would be
>> stainless steel with stainless steel fittings and braided
>> stainless steel Teflon lined flex lines. That's what is used in aircraft.
>>
>> The next best would be copper with brass fittings and braided stainless
>> steel Teflon lined flex lines.
>>
>> Then aluminum with aluminum fittings, however, I can't remember if
>> aircraft braided hoses came with aluminum fittings.
>>
>> The last would be steel lines with steel fittings.
>>
>> Having said all this what combination of tube and fittings would be the
>> worst from a dissimilar metal corrosion point of view?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141995 is a reply to message #141993] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 12:14 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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The local premium auto parts store I deal with, Merle's (Parts +), carries a coated steel line that I have used for fuel, transmission, and brake line. It will not rust on the outside, anyway. The outside does get scraped up at the ends if you need to flare it, but that could be painted. I used this line on the tops of my tanks when I re-did the fuel hoses:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34775
I also used it for the brake line from the Line master cylinder to the line lock, when I recently did the disc brakes:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40217
I made a phone call and found out the source of it:
http://www.agscompany.com/faq/10
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #141998 is a reply to message #141823] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 13:10 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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I'll agree with Emery on this one. Stainless is more difficult to work with and can't be double flared as it isn't as malleable. Therefore, you have to (or should) use 37-degree aircraft (single) flares and fittings. I would use stainless steel fittings instead of aluminum and these are very expensive. And the plated steel lines that you buy are very good for corrosion resistance - I don't see anything wrong with using them. I would never use copper in a vehicle as the vibration can lead to work hardening, which can lead to fatigue-induced cracks (so what did GM use for propane? Hmmm..). You could use aluminum, but I think it has no advantage except weight savings and you certainly don't need that.
For flexible lines, yes the teflon hoses with stainless steel abrasion covers certainly look nice and last just about forever. In aircraft rubber hoses are life-limited to 5 years (recommended or required? I'm not sure) and teflon hoses have an unlimited rated life. But the normal aircraft hoses have 37-degree fittings, so you have to get race-car hoses with automotive flare fittings. For low pressure service you can use hose clamps on rubber hoses. Just do the first half of a double flare on the steel tube first. And I would use the rubber hose for only what is required (above the fuel tank and between the frame and engine).
Gary Casey
Rob
I have to cordially disagree with you on this.
Stainless steel is probably the best for corrosion but it is really a problem? I think that about all automotobile manufacturers use plain steel.
Stainless is much harder to flare if you should want a flare fitting.
Copper is more susceptible to cracking if there is any vibration.
Aluminum would be more prone to corrosion and being soft it can easily be damages by impact or frequent tightening or loosening of the fittings.
You say steel would be last but I just don't see that. I have had steel lines on for my fuel for several years not and I have no rusting or other problems.
If you are worried about corrosion from dissimilar metals then steel would be the best since your frame is steel.
Emery Stora
On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> G'day,
>
> Discounting the costs involved I reckon the best tubing to use would be stainless steel with stainless steel fittings and braided
> stainless steel Teflon lined flex lines. That's what is used in aircraft.
>
> The next best would be copper with brass fittings and braided stainless steel Teflon lined flex lines.
>
> Then aluminum with aluminum fittings, however, I can't remember if aircraft braided hoses came with aluminum fittings.
>
> The last would be steel lines with steel fittings.
>
> Having said all this what combination of tube and fittings would be the worst from a dissimilar metal corrosion point of view?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #142002 is a reply to message #141995] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 15:37 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Carl,
I replaced the fuel line from the master cylinder to my rear brakes on my
1969 Mercedes. I bought the line from Mercedes as I thought it would be a
preformed piece. It was not. But, it is exactly what the link shows from
your email. Easy to work and looks like it will last a long time. "Nice
Stuff".
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Carl Stouffer <carljr3b@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> The local premium auto parts store I deal with, Merle's (Parts +), carries
> a coated steel line that I have used for fuel, transmission, and brake line.
> It will not rust on the outside, anyway. The outside does get scraped up
> at the ends if you need to flare it, but that could be painted. I used this
> line on the tops of my tanks when I re-did the fuel hoses:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34775
>
> I also used it for the brake line from the Line master cylinder to the line
> lock, when I recently did the disc brakes:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40217
>
> I made a phone call and found out the source of it:
>
> http://www.agscompany.com/faq/10
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #142030 is a reply to message #141995] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 20:06 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Yes, that is exactly what I used on my fuel lines, over the tank and along the frame rail.
I also used it for the 3/8" transmission cooler lines.
Emery Stora
On Sep 1, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
>
> The local premium auto parts store I deal with, Merle's (Parts +), carries a coated steel line that I have used for fuel, transmission, and brake line. It will not rust on the outside, anyway. The outside does get scraped up at the ends if you need to flare it, but that could be painted. I used this line on the tops of my tanks when I re-did the fuel hoses:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34775
>
> I also used it for the brake line from the Line master cylinder to the line lock, when I recently did the disc brakes:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40217
>
> I made a phone call and found out the source of it:
>
> http://www.agscompany.com/faq/10
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Hose [message #142034 is a reply to message #141823] |
Thu, 01 September 2011 20:30 |
Jim Wagner
Messages: 339
Registered: February 2004
Location: Brook Park, Oh
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Carl,
If my tanks looked that good I would install a glass floor. What do you think Dan.
The local premium auto parts store I deal with, Merle's (Parts +), carries a coated steel line that I have used for fuel, transmission, and brake line. It will not rust on the outside, anyway. The outside does get scraped up at the ends if you need to flare it, but that could be painted. I used this line on the tops of my tanks when I re-did the fuel hoses:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=34775
Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh
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