Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis?
| [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141219] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 12:30  |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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I'm still piecing together the history on my donor coach, and the last question is the engine.
It was rebuilt by Rettig Brothers in Modesto, CA.
Does anyone have any experience with this company?
Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
The engine runs strong and smooth, the oil pump is questionable (and would be replaced), but based on compression numbers and a lot of time peering through a borescope (high definition/digital... actually made for medical procedures - thanks to my neighbor), I'm willing to bet that the tolerances are spot on all around the internals of that engine.
It's going to come out, and the mains and rod bearings will be carefully checked, as will the valve train.
Being of the "if it ain't broke" school, yet wanting to avoid problems on the road, I would appreciate input and experiences.
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141225 is a reply to message #141219] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 13:08  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
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| Dolph Santorine wrote on Sat, 27 August 2011 13:30 |
I'm still piecing together the history on my donor coach, and the last question is the engine.
It was rebuilt by Rettig Brothers in Modesto, CA.
Does anyone have any experience with this company?
Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
The engine runs strong and smooth, the oil pump is questionable (and would be replaced), but based on compression numbers and a lot of time peering through a borescope (high definition/digital... actually made for medical procedures - thanks to my neighbor), I'm willing to bet that the tolerances are spot on all around the internals of that engine.
It's going to come out, and the mains and rod bearings will be carefully checked, as will the valve train.
Being of the "if it ain't broke" school, yet wanting to avoid problems on the road, I would appreciate input and experiences.
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
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Sir: I recently sold a KW big truck and the prospective buyer wanted to get an oil analysis done. I drove the truck to local Detroit deisel shop. The forman pulled a small pill bottle of oil out of the dipstick tube and said he would have the results the next day for $25. When the results came in the only issue that the analysis showed was an exhaust leak. I called and wanted to know how did they know it had an exhaust leak, So after his "Rob Mueller" type of explination I was convinced he earned his $25. I would highly recommend this to anyone with doubts.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141233 is a reply to message #141219] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 14:06 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Dolph,
Just curious, what are the symptoms that make you think the oil pump is marginal?
If I pulled an engine that I thought was solid -- I might be inclined just to do new gaskets and not break down the crank and pistons.
Dennis
PS, does the camera go back onto medical use again?
| Dolph Santorine wrote on Sat, 27 August 2011 12:30 |
I'm still piecing together the history on my donor coach, and the last question is the engine.
It was rebuilt by Rettig Brothers in Modesto, CA.
Does anyone have any experience with this company?
Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
The engine runs strong and smooth, the oil pump is questionable (and would be replaced), but based on compression numbers and a lot of time peering through a borescope (high definition/digital... actually made for medical procedures - thanks to my neighbor), I'm willing to bet that the tolerances are spot on all around the internals of that engine.
It's going to come out, and the mains and rod bearings will be carefully checked, as will the valve train.
Being of the "if it ain't broke" school, yet wanting to avoid problems on the road, I would appreciate input and experiences.
Dolph Santorine
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141243 is a reply to message #141237] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 15:38 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Knowing most machine shops, it comes down to individual people that do the work.
Since these engines go int a fully loaded unit that never runs empty
is the main problem.
I was the one that discouraged Manny from dealing with engines as I
knew there would be problems not only with the product, but with the
people that install them.
Now, I realize that I should have shut my mouth.
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Manny Trovao <mannystrans@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Rettig brothers built 11 long blocks for me in the early 90s.
> I used the cam that Koba came up with for Richard Archer.
> I got the cams through Jim Bounds.
> I had one engine failed twice. New fuel pump leaking internally.
> Frank is right, much of the equipment dates back to the 70s.
> At the time when they were building my engines, most of the employees
> been working there since the 70s.
>
> --
> Manny Trovao
> mannystrans@gmail.com
> Manny's Trans / Power Drive
> San Jose, California
> 408-937-1583
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141289 is a reply to message #141233] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 21:34 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Lots of good comments, and thanks for all the input.
First, the camera goes back to work with students and dummies, so it does not becomes someone else's pain in the a$$<G> Silicone dummies, not the kind that walk into his office.
PO2 indicated low oil pressure. PO claims it was a sender problem. JimK's staff indicated a potential mechnical problem.
I'm going to put a mechanical gauge on it and run it for bit.
Thank you for all the help.
Dolph
On Aug 27, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>
>
> Dolph,
>
> Just curious, what are the symptoms that make you think the oil pump is marginal?
>
> If I pulled an engine that I thought was solid -- I might be inclined just to do new gaskets and not break down the crank and pistons.
>
> Dennis
>
> PS, does the camera go back onto medical use again?
>
> Dolph Santorine wrote on Sat, 27 August 2011 12:30
>> I'm still piecing together the history on my donor coach, and the last question is the engine.
>>
>> It was rebuilt by Rettig Brothers in Modesto, CA.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience with this company?
>>
>> Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
>>
>> The engine runs strong and smooth, the oil pump is questionable (and would be replaced), but based on compression numbers and a lot of time peering through a borescope (high definition/digital... actually made for medical procedures - thanks to my neighbor), I'm willing to bet that the tolerances are spot on all around the internals of that engine.
>>
>> It's going to come out, and the mains and rod bearings will be carefully checked, as will the valve train.
>>
>> Being of the "if it ain't broke" school, yet wanting to avoid problems on the road, I would appreciate input and experiences.
>>
>>
>> Dolph Santorine
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141291 is a reply to message #141289] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 21:42 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Dolph,
Good idea to use a mechanical gauge and compare to the electric. When I drove my 23 ft coach home from Atlanta, the oil pressure dropped about 10 lb as soon as it got dark (I was in a lesser populated area of Ms and still had several hours drive time home). In the light of day I was most relieved when I discovered that whenever I turned on the headlights the oil pressure dropped.
Dennis
| Dolph Santorine wrote on Sat, 27 August 2011 21:34 |
Lots of good comments, and thanks for all the input.
First, the camera goes back to work with students and dummies, so it does not becomes someone else's pain in the a$$<G> Silicone dummies, not the kind that walk into his office.
PO2 indicated low oil pressure. PO claims it was a sender problem. JimK's staff indicated a potential mechnical problem.
I'm going to put a mechanical gauge on it and run it for bit.
Thank you for all the help.
Dolph
On Aug 27, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>
>
> Dolph,
>
> Just curious, what are the symptoms that make you think the oil pump is marginal?
>
> If I pulled an engine that I thought was solid -- I might be inclined just to do new gaskets and not break down the crank and pistons.
>
> Dennis
>
> PS, does the camera go back onto medical use again?
>
> Dolph Santorine wrote on Sat, 27 August 2011 12:30
>> I'm still piecing together the history on my donor coach, and the last question is the engine.
>>
>> It was rebuilt by Rettig Brothers in Modesto, CA.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience with this company?
>>
>> Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
>>
>> The engine runs strong and smooth, the oil pump is questionable (and would be replaced), but based on compression numbers and a lot of time peering through a borescope (high definition/digital... actually made for medical procedures - thanks to my neighbor), I'm willing to bet that the tolerances are spot on all around the internals of that engine.
>>
>> It's going to come out, and the mains and rod bearings will be carefully checked, as will the valve train.
>>
>> Being of the "if it ain't broke" school, yet wanting to avoid problems on the road, I would appreciate input and experiences.
>>
>>
>> Dolph Santorine
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141293 is a reply to message #141289] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 22:35 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Dolph,
You could try going to single viscosity oil that might help. I got slightly more oil pressure when I went from Shell SAE 15-40
Rotella T to Royal Purple SAE 40 Full Synthetic.
It could be as simple as a problem as a too soft spring in the oil pump bypass valve.
Reference: MM X-7525
Page: 6A-2 Engine - General Information
Paragraph: Engine Lubrication System
Reference: PB 78Z
Page: 8-15
Key: 8
Nomenclature: Spring - oil pump relief
I think Gene Fisher posted some pictures of an intake that had HEAPS of junk in the inlet strainer which if restricted could also
cause the problem.
Unfortunately to check the inlet strainer and oil pump relief valve you have to pull the oil pan and that is a PITA!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dolph Santorine
Lots of good comments, and thanks for all the input.
First, the camera goes back to work with students and dummies, so it does not becomes someone else's pain in the a$$<G> Silicone
dummies, not the kind that walk into his office.
PO2 indicated low oil pressure. PO claims it was a sender problem. JimK's staff indicated a potential mechnical problem.
I'm going to put a mechanical gauge on it and run it for bit.
Thank you for all the help.
Dolph
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141312 is a reply to message #141219] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 08:07 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dolph,
If you plan on attending the next GMCMI convention, Jim Stark, founder of
Blackstone Labs, will be making his excellent presentation on oil
analysis. It is a "must attend" feature.
Hopefully, Kimberly Weeks will have Jim and his bride provide the
entertainment on one of the free nights. They knock out some great tunes.
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Dolph Santorine
<dolph@dolphsantorine.com>wrote:
> Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze
> the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis
> some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always
> better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141327 is a reply to message #141312] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 09:37 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Steve:
I'm looking forward to being there for his presentation.
Actually, my wife will probably enjoy that presentation as well.
On Aug 28, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Steven Ferguson wrote:
> Dolph,
> If you plan on attending the next GMCMI convention, Jim Stark, founder of
> Blackstone Labs, will be making his excellent presentation on oil
> analysis. It is a "must attend" feature.
> Hopefully, Kimberly Weeks will have Jim and his bride provide the
> entertainment on one of the free nights. They knock out some great tunes.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Dolph Santorine
> <dolph@dolphsantorine.com>wrote:
>
>> Also, is there a baseline for oil analysis for the 455? We always analyze
>> the oil on aircraft, so we have a known baseline. I've done oil analysis
>> some automotive engines that I've built, and learned that it's almost always
>> better to have some baseline for the power plant under scrutiny.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Ferguson
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141336 is a reply to message #141323] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 10:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The transmission must be pulled to allow access to the engine oil pan bolts
on the driver's side. No option that I can see, either with the Olds or Cad
engine.
Then the front motor mount must be loosened to allow the engine to be raised
1" or so to allow the front of the oil pan, where it curves up to the front
main seal, to clear the crank, rods, mains, etc. as you pull the pan to the
rear. On the Cad, I have to roll the pan to one side as it moves aft. I
don't remember about the Olds. In either case, having a drain plug in the
forward part of the pan sure helps make the job less messy. That's standard
in the Eldorado pan; something everyone should add to their Olds if they
have the pan off.
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 10:15 AM, A. <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Sat, 27 August 2011 22:35
> > ... you have to pull the oil pan and that is a PITA!
> Can that even be done without removing the engine? If so, how?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141350 is a reply to message #141336] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 13:21 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 28 August 2011 10:27 |
The transmission must be pulled to allow access to the engine oil pan bolts on the driver's side. No option that I can see, either with the Olds or Cad engine.
Then the front motor mount must be loosened to allow the engine to be raised 1" or so to allow the front of the oil pan, where it curves up to the front main seal, to clear the crank, rods, mains, etc. as you pull the pan to the rear. On the Cad, I have to roll the pan to one side as it moves aft. I don't remember about the Olds. In either case, having a drain plug in the forward part of the pan sure helps make the job less messy. That's standard in the Eldorado pan; something everyone should add to their Olds if they have the pan off.
Ken H.
|
Seems like the amount of work to take the engine out the top is not much more effort than what has to happen just to get the oil pan off. And when I get the pan separated from the engine, I do plan to add a drain plug to the forward part of the pan. Production dollars or not, that is NO excuse for GM to have left that out. The same goes for transmission pans. They have to be serviced at regular intervals. They all should have drain plugs in them.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rettig Brothers engines/Oil Analysis? [message #141354 is a reply to message #141344] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 13:43 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Roger,
I hope your hauling over a big bag of grits for this old boy you got
re hooked on them there grits.
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Roger Black <r1black@comcast.net> wrote:
> Dolph,
> Go to Blackstone's site and order some kits. You pay when you send
> the sample. Kits are free. You could have a sample done with results
> which you could present to Jim for his personal analysis at the
> rally. His daughter does the writing up of the reports and she's good.
>
> http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
>
> Please note on forms that it is a GMC Motorhome as they have been
> collecting a profile that fits the motorhome engines rather than the
> automobile engines.
>
> Roger Black
> 77 Birchaven
> Burns, Tn
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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