Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » gas boils at what temperature ? (information please)
| gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140818] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 19:14  |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
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With all this talk about gas boiling and the additives in gas. i wondered what are the temp ranges that this happens at???.
Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas.
Seems to me there may be a way to lower the gas temp. Knowing the temps involved would be useful to try and find a solution ??
Regarding the use of engine water to heat the water in the water heater, does this add to the temp of the gas ???. Where are the lines to the water heater fitted in the GMC.
Any information would be very much appreciated.
Regards
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140822 is a reply to message #140818] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 19:27  |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| glacierfl wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 17:14 |
With all this talk about gas boiling and the additives in gas. i wondered what are the temp ranges that this happens at???.
Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas. ...
|
Due to the different make up of gas across the country and different times of the year, there is no set temperature for the gas to "boil."
But yes, Ethanol lowers the temperature that gas vaporizes.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140825 is a reply to message #140818] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 19:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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| glacierfl wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 19:14 |
With all this talk about gas boiling and the additives in gas. i wondered what are the temp ranges that this happens at???.
Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas.
Seems to me there may be a way to lower the gas temp. Knowing the temps involved would be useful to try and find a solution ??
Regarding the use of engine water to heat the water in the water heater, does this add to the temp of the gas ???. Where are the lines to the water heater fitted in the GMC.
Any information would be very much appreciated.
Regards
|
The boiling point of gasoline varies based on time of year (summer vs. winter) and the local where it is intended to be sold (Denver vs. Seattle). The measurement of this is called Reid Vapor Pressure or RVP. An exception to this variation is Aviation gasoline because it is used over such a wide variation of elevations and temperatures. When ethanol is mixed in it reduces the boiling point and the EPA is allowing this exception.
http://www.epa.gov/oms/fuels/gasolinefuels/volatility/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Vapor_Pressure
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/rfgsurvey.htm
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8308gasoline.html
http://eprinc.org/?p=300
After reading all of the above you are probably sorry you asked the question.
Running engine coolant to the rear to heat the house water has no effect on the gas tanks. The hoses run the passenger side on the outside of the frame rail. If you lay on the ground on the passenger side and look up at the body you will see those hoses.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140833 is a reply to message #140818] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 20:13 |
A Hamilto
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Registered: April 2011
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| glacierfl wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 19:14 |
Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas.
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No.
Warning, science content follows.
Gasoline is a mixture of different hydrocarbons. Each has a different boiling point. Octane (if gas were 100% octane it would have an octane rating of 100) boils at 125C (257F). Heptane boils at 98C or close to the boiling point of water. Hexane boils at 69C. You could use a fractionating column to determine how much octane, nonane, heptane, hexane, etc., is in a given sample of gasoline. The boiling point of ethanol is about 173F. So the hexane will boil off before the ethanol which will boil off before the heptane, which will boil off before the octane, which will boil off before the nonane, you get the idea.
The FUEL begins to boil at the boiling point of the component with the lowest boiling point. There may be components in your fuel that boil at a lower temperature than ethanol. But I don't work for the oil companies so I don't know. I just remember some stuff from organic chemistry class.
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| Re: gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140834 is a reply to message #140818] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 20:23 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
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Thank you for the information. I shall print stuff out and try and digest it !!!!.
It seems the problem of gas boiling is not gonna go away. I guess along with others i want a solution to this problem.
Reading about folks having to stop on the freeway etc sucks....
Where is the majority of heat coming from ??
Would insulating the tanks drop the temperature changes ??
There are reflecting materials available, i guess non flamable ones would be the right choice.
Where are modern vehicle fuel tanks placed?.
Could temp gauges be placed in/around the tanks with some sort of feed from a small ac unit so that when the temps approached problem temps they could be cooled, at least in theory that sounds a good idea.
We are looking to travel around the USA next year for a long time, and the thought of having these kinds of problems really does not make me feel so good about travel....
Well maybe the idea above is kinda crazy, i believe a small AC unit is available for the dash perhaps this could be used somehow to cool the fuel???, if it gets too high.
Togeather Lets find a solution, there has to be one.
Regards
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140836 is a reply to message #140834] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 20:54 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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Also remember that unless your pump is in the tank, at some point it is being sucked out of it.
This means the fuel is in a partial vacuum, and it's boiling point drops accordingly.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140842 is a reply to message #140824] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 21:30 |
emerystora
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On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:43 PM, Larry Davick wrote:
> From ask . com
>
> "Alcohol has a boiling point of 72 degrees C or 173 degrees F, which is only slightly lower than the boiling point of water."
>
> If we can assume that gasoline has a higher boiling point than alcohol, then we can be assured that blended gasoline will boil at some temperature above 173 degrees F, at sea level.
>
> But it need not boil to vaporize. You can dry your laundry on the line in winter - even ice evaporates - check out the old ice in your freezer. (My freezer has no old ice - I'm careful to rotate it through an alcohol bath from time-to-time.)
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
> The Mystery Machine
> '76 (ish) Palm Beach
Larry
using the boiling point of Ethanol by itself to predict the boiling point of a mixture with gasoline can be very misleading.
Here is something that I had posted in June of last year:
------------
When it comes to predicting the boiling points of mixtures it get very complicated. Adding more ethanol doesn't necessarily mean that the boiling point will get closer toward the alcohol's boiling point.
Mixtures of gasoline and ethanol deviates from Raoult's Law caused by variation in intermolecular forces in pure alcohol and in hydrocarbon solution.
Most gasoline components follow Raoult's Law - that is their individual component vapor pressure is the product of their pure component vapor pressure times their mole fraction (or in other words - their percentage in the mixture). This Raoult 's Law behavior allows us to predict the vapor properties of most gasoline blends - each component will contribute according to its concentration in the final blend.
But consider pure alcohol. At molecular weight 46 it has a boiling point of about 174 deg F. (only at sea level) , far above what we would predict of a material of that low molecular weight. Propane, with a molecular weight of 44, is a gas! One can explain the high pure ethanol boiling point and low vapor pressure by the intermolecular forces due to hydrogen bonding between ethanol molecules. The hydrogen of one molecule and the electron pair on oxygen on a second molecule attract each other and additional energy - more heat - is required to separate the molecules to form a gas - to boil. And ethanol has a high dipole moment - a skewed electron distribution that establishes an additional intermolecular attraction.
Note that this boiling point stated above is only for anhydrous ethanol (without water). The ethanol that is used to blend gasoline is hydrous ethanol which contains 4 to 7 % water. Trying to get closer to anhydrous ethanol would make it much more expensive to manufacture.
But in hydrocarbon solution, the ethanol molecules are separated from each other by the preponderence of nonpolar, hydrocarbon molecules. Ethanol is soluble, but each polar, hydrogen bonding molecule cannot find the ready association with another ethanol molecule that increases boiling point and lowers volatility. Its partial vapor pressure (and thus lower boiling point) is a lot higher than one would predict from Raoult's Law. This deviation from linear, "ideal" behavior that increases ethanol containing gasoline volatility, is a common phenomenon in chemistry.
This is probably getting to be much more technical than most of the people on this site want to hear about or know so I would just suggest that we just drop this direction of this thread.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140843 is a reply to message #140833] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 21:35 |
emerystora
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On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:13 PM, A. wrote:
>
>
> glacierfl wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 19:14
>> Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas.
> No.
> Warning, science content follows.
> Gasoline is a mixture of different hydrocarbons. Each has a different boiling point. Octane (if gas were 100% octane it would have an octane rating of 100) boils at 125C (257F). Heptane boils at 98C or close to the boiling point of water. Hexane boils at 69C. You could use a fractionating column to determine how much octane, nonane, heptane, hexane, etc., is in a given sample of gasoline. The boiling point of ethanol is about 173F. So the hexane will boil off before the ethanol which will boil off before the heptane, which will boil off before the octane, which will boil off before the nonane, you get the idea.
> The FUEL begins to boil at the boiling point of the component with the lowest boiling point. There may be components in your fuel that boil at a lower temperature than ethanol. But I don't work for the oil companies so I don't know. I just remember some stuff from organic chemistry class.
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
A. -- I just read your message right after sending a reply to Larry. What you have said is true for hydrocarbons such as octane, heptane, etc but when you put a dissimilar liquid such as ethanol into the mixture it does strange things so that you cannot assume that another component will boil off before the ethanol. If you read the message that I had posted just a few minutes ago you will see why.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140845 is a reply to message #140843] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 21:49 |
k2gkk
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Registered: November 2009
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AND, compounds (two or more elements) can have the
"strange" property where the "melting" or "freezing"
point where that compound changes from solid to liquid
or vice versa occurs at some particular proportion of
each component. For example, the "eutectic" point of
distilled water and ethylene glocol (common anti-freeze)
is about -37F whereas the freeze point of water is at
32F and the antifreeze is somewhere around -20.
I strongly suspect that a combination of ethanol and
gasoline very might similarly vaporize at a considerably
lower temperature than either gasoline OR ethanol.
Some chemist type will certain jump in here and
either agree or disagree.
Just a SSWAG (somewhat scientific wild ass guess)
on my part.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
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> From: emerystora@mac.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:35:29 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> CC: markbb1@netzero.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ?
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:13 PM, A. wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > glacierfl wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 19:14
> >> Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas.
> > No.
> > Warning, science content follows.
> > Gasoline is a mixture of different hydrocarbons. Each has a different boiling point. Octane (if gas were 100% octane it would have an octane rating of 100) boils at 125C (257F). Heptane boils at 98C or close to the boiling point of water. Hexane boils at 69C. You could use a fractionating column to determine how much octane, nonane, heptane, hexane, etc., is in a given sample of gasoline. The boiling point of ethanol is about 173F. So the hexane will boil off before the ethanol which will boil off before the heptane, which will boil off before the octane, which will boil off before the nonane, you get the idea.
> > The FUEL begins to boil at the boiling point of the component with the lowest boiling point. There may be components in your fuel that boil at a lower temperature than ethanol. But I don't work for the oil companies so I don't know. I just remember some stuff from organic chemistry class.
> > --
> > '73 23' CanyonLands
>
> A. -- I just read your message right after sending a reply to Larry. What you have said is true for hydrocarbons such as octane, heptane, etc but when you put a dissimilar liquid such as ethanol into the mixture it does strange things so that you cannot assume that another component will boil off before the ethanol. If you read the message that I had posted just a few minutes ago you will see why.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140847 is a reply to message #140841] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 21:58 |
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Kerry Tandy
Messages: 33
Registered: January 2004
Location: Merkel, Texas; Gold Canyo...
Karma: 0
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Emery,
Would you please pass on to me the instructions that you mentioned on
installing different fuel pumps to control the problem of vaporizing fuel
that I have been experiencing. It is indeed quite irritating and I am ready
to take action. Many thanks.
Have you moved yet? We are on the way to Miami to obtain another house in
order to be closer to what is left of our family, and hope to make the move
this year.
Kerry Tandy
Bewartz Farms
Canton, Texas
Efax-253-563-2514
To see where we are now, click on
http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=38
http://www.satellitefriendly.com/user/info.php?id=bewartz
Blog:http://bewartz1.blogspot.com/
Pray Incessantly!!!
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 19:21, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:14 PM, steve & debbie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > With all this talk about gas boiling and the additives in gas. i wondered
> what are the temp ranges that this happens at???.
> >
> > Does the gas boil at a lower or higher temp if Ethanol is in the gas.
> >
> > Seems to me there may be a way to lower the gas temp. Knowing the temps
> involved would be useful to try and find a solution ??
> >
> > Regarding the use of engine water to heat the water in the water heater,
> does this add to the temp of the gas ???. Where are the lines to the water
> heater fitted in the GMC.
> >
> > Any information would be very much appreciated.
> >
> > Regards
> > --
> > Steve & Debbie
> > Monticello, FL
> > 73 Glacier
>
> It will boil at a lower temperature with ethanol in the gasoline. Some
> tests have shown that it could boil at as low a temperatrue as 85 degrees --
> so I don't think that you will solve the problem by trying to cool the
> lines. I would think that the suction line of the pump is the problem area.
> You should have an electric pump as close to the tanks as possible. I did
> that but still had vapor lock problems. I finally solved my problems by
> putting the fuel pumps into the tanks and using a selparate pump for each
> tank. I have complete instructions for doing that but the pumps that I used
> put out 22 psi which works fine for a throttle body system but not for a
> carb system. I may have found pumps that will work for a carb system
> though.
>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140848 is a reply to message #140842] |
Wed, 24 August 2011 22:16 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| emerystora wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 21:30 |
...in hydrocarbon solution, the ethanol molecules are separated from each other by the preponderence of nonpolar, hydrocarbon molecules. ...each polar, hydrogen bonding molecule cannot find the ready association with another ethanol molecule that increases boiling point and lowers volatility. Its partial vapor pressure (and thus lower boiling point) is a lot higher than one would predict from Raoult's Law. This deviation from linear, "ideal" behavior that increases ethanol containing gasoline volatility, is a common phenomenon in chemistry.
This is probably getting to be much more technical than most of the people on this site want to hear about or know so I would just suggest that we just drop this direction of this thread.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
|
Not too technical for me. I like learning how the universe works.
Since I can't change the laws of physics and chemistry, and I have negligible influence on the drivers for putting additives in my fuel, I will need to figure out how to adapt. In this case, finding a way to keep the fuel cool from the fill nozzle to the carb jets is the path of least resistance to prevent vapor lock in hot weather. I guess when I figure that out, the next problem will be carburetor icing.
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| Re: gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140868 is a reply to message #140834] |
Thu, 25 August 2011 07:56 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| glacierfl wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 21:23 |
Thank you for the information.<snip>
Where is the majority of heat coming from ??
Would insulating the tanks drop the temperature changes ??
There are reflecting materials available, i guess non flamable ones would be the right choice.
Where are modern vehicle fuel tanks placed?.
Could temp gauges be placed in/around the tanks with some sort of feed from a small ac unit so that when the temps approached problem temps they could be cooled, at least in theory that sounds a good idea.
<snip>
Regards
|
Steve,
You have asked five questions of widely varying areas, I will try to answer in order as best as I can.
1- That is situation dependent, on a black McAdam highway, it be be re-radiation from the road surface, but in when stuck in traffic it will be the heat from the engine and the exhaust system.
2- It might, but insulation has limits because of the size of the tanks.
3- Not a question - Indeed, someone here reported that coating the tanks with a reflective and insulating system was an improvement.
4- Wherever they can can be fit that will not be impacted in a rear-ender or side impact. If you meant RV's, remember that they are all now in-tank pumps now and they are reported to still have problems in CA, AZ and NV.
5- Of course one could do that, but it would be complex and therefore failure prone. I am not at all sure what magnitude of heat pumping would required to make the system effective.
Modern vehicles almost all have plastic fuel tanks (lower thermal conductivity) and also have heat shielding on the side toward the exhaust.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140878 is a reply to message #140868] |
Thu, 25 August 2011 09:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I will expound on #2.
Last time I was down at the COOP Resort JimB's guys coated a pair of fuel tanks on a guy's coach that had a 8.1 Vortec engine. They
used some stuff called Lizard (or some other reptile) Skin to try and cure a vapor lock problem he was having.
IIRC he also insulated the rubber fuel lines from the tanks up to the engine with some kind of insulation.
A couple of days later the owner called back and noted he still had the problem BUT he could drive further and longer before it
started.
Obviously the insulation did its job "somewhat" by prolonging the time it took for the tanks to reach the temperature required to
cause the problem, however, it didn't solve the problem.
I reckon that an "insulation sandwich" stacked downwards as follows would be as "good as it gets."
1) Lizard Skin coated tanks
2) A water proof insulation material
3) A sheet of thin stainless steel with a highly polished surface facing the road surface
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Steve,
You have asked five questions of widely varying areas, I will try to answer in order as best as I can.
1- That is situation dependent, on a black McAdam highway, it be be re-radiation from the road surface, but in when stuck in traffic
it will be the heat from the engine and the exhaust system.
2- It might, but insulation has limits because of the size of the tanks.
3- Not a question - Indeed, someone here reported that coating the tanks with a reflective and insulating system was an improvement.
4- Wherever they can can be fit that will not be impacted in a rear-ender or side impact. If you meant RV's, remember that they are
all now in-tank pumps now and they are reported to still have problems in CA, AZ and NV.
5- Of course one could do that, but it would be complex and therefore failure prone. I am not at all sure what magnitude of heat
pumping would required to make the system effective.
Modern vehicles almost all have plastic fuel tanks (lower thermal conductivity) and also have heat shielding on the side toward the
exhaust.
Matt
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140953 is a reply to message #140878] |
Thu, 25 August 2011 16:38 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Page 2 on that project, he got home to Mpls. and ran from the coach. It got better as he got north but still the direct FI system he had still would shut down, he would wait and he could go a little further. He finally sought help from another speed shop up there, found if he pointed a 3" bilge fan on the top of the motor it stopped completely. Said the injectors were getting so hot the fuel was boiling at the injector nozel. Moving air on top fixed it completely. Might be something in that for us. Thought I would try that next time a coach came in. if one of you wanna try it, please let me know how it goes,
Jim Bounds
------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ?
Matt,
I will expound on #2.
Last time I was down at the COOP Resort JimB's guys coated a pair of fuel tanks on a guy's coach that had a 8.1 Vortec engine. They
used some stuff called Lizard (or some other reptile) Skin to try and cure a vapor lock problem he was having.
IIRC he also insulated the rubber fuel lines from the tanks up to the engine with some kind of insulation.
A couple of days later the owner called back and noted he still had the problem BUT he could drive further and longer before it
started.
Obviously the insulation did its job "somewhat" by prolonging the time it took for the tanks to reach the temperature required to
cause the problem, however, it didn't solve the problem.
I reckon that an "insulation sandwich" stacked downwards as follows would be as "good as it gets."
1) Lizard Skin coated tanks
2) A water proof insulation material
3) A sheet of thin stainless steel with a highly polished surface facing the road surface
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Steve,
You have asked five questions of widely varying areas, I will try to answer in order as best as I can.
1- That is situation dependent, on a black McAdam highway, it be be re-radiation from the road surface, but in when stuck in traffic
it will be the heat from the engine and the exhaust system.
2- It might, but insulation has limits because of the size of the tanks.
3- Not a question - Indeed, someone here reported that coating the tanks with a reflective and insulating system was an improvement.
4- Wherever they can can be fit that will not be impacted in a rear-ender or side impact. If you meant RV's, remember that they are
all now in-tank pumps now and they are reported to still have problems in CA, AZ and NV.
5- Of course one could do that, but it would be complex and therefore failure prone. I am not at all sure what magnitude of heat
pumping would required to make the system effective.
Modern vehicles almost all have plastic fuel tanks (lower thermal conductivity) and also have heat shielding on the side toward the
exhaust.
Matt
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| Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ? [message #140992 is a reply to message #140953] |
Thu, 25 August 2011 21:15 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Thanks for the update!
AFAIC I'm perfectly happy with the little $45 Facet pump (P/N 40104) Jason installed in the outlet of the Auxiliary tank that comes
on when I switch from MAIN to AUX. Whenever Double Trouble stumbles I hit switch to AUX and the problem stops in a few seconds!
For example after I left the COOP last summer and headed for Key West I hit Miami in the middle of evening rush hour. The southbound
road out of Miami has LOTS of traffic lights and vapor lock reared it's ugly head at the first traffic light so I hit AUX and left
it in AUX until we got south of Miami. Once in AUX with the little pump feeding the mechanical pump 1.5 - 4 psi the engine never
missed a beat.
However, as you explained there is a downside, if you have a mechanical fuel pump with a torn diaphragm you can pump the crankcase
full of gas. I reckon if the diaphragm was torn you'd already have pumped the crankcase full!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Bounds
Sent: Friday, 26 August 2011 7:39 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ?
Rob,
Page 2 on that project, he got home to Mpls. and ran from the coach. It got better as he got north but still the direct FI system
he had still would shut down, he would wait and he could go a little further. He finally sought help from another speed shop up
there, found if he pointed a 3" bilge fan on the top of the motor it stopped completely. Said the injectors were getting so hot the
fuel was boiling at the injector nozel. Moving air on top fixed it completely. Might be something in that for us. Thought I would
try that next time a coach came in. if one of you wanna try it, please let me know how it goes,
Jim Bounds
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----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] gas boils at what temperature ?
Matt,
I will expound on #2.
Last time I was down at the COOP Resort JimB's guys coated a pair of fuel tanks on a guy's coach that had a 8.1 Vortec engine. They
used some stuff called Lizard (or some other reptile) Skin to try and cure a vapor lock problem he was having.
IIRC he also insulated the rubber fuel lines from the tanks up to the engine with some kind of insulation.
A couple of days later the owner called back and noted he still had the problem BUT he could drive further and longer before it
started.
Obviously the insulation did its job "somewhat" by prolonging the time it took for the tanks to reach the temperature required to
cause the problem, however, it didn't solve the problem.
I reckon that an "insulation sandwich" stacked downwards as follows would be as "good as it gets."
1) Lizard Skin coated tanks
2) A water proof insulation material
3) A sheet of thin stainless steel with a highly polished surface facing the road surface
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Steve,
You have asked five questions of widely varying areas, I will try to answer in order as best as I can.
1- That is situation dependent, on a black McAdam highway, it be be re-radiation from the road surface, but in when stuck in traffic
it will be the heat from the engine and the exhaust system.
2- It might, but insulation has limits because of the size of the tanks.
3- Not a question - Indeed, someone here reported that coating the tanks with a reflective and insulating system was an improvement.
4- Wherever they can can be fit that will not be impacted in a rear-ender or side impact. If you meant RV's, remember that they are
all now in-tank pumps now and they are reported to still have problems in CA, AZ and NV.
5- Of course one could do that, but it would be complex and therefore failure prone. I am not at all sure what magnitude of heat
pumping would required to make the system effective.
Modern vehicles almost all have plastic fuel tanks (lower thermal conductivity) and also have heat shielding on the side toward the
exhaust.
Matt
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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