Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Final Drive Question
| [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140522] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 19:21  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
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How much play is there supposed to be in the left (drivers side) output shaft? Seems kind of loose to me, but my old one, the spare and the new one all seem the same to me and they all have different shafts.
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140526 is a reply to message #140522] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 19:29  |
Ray Erspamer
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Whewwwwww! Thanks Ken, just what I wanted to hear! I've even held off test driving it until I got some feedback.
------Original Message------
From: Ken Henderson
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
To: GMC Net List
ReplyTo: GMC Net List
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question
Sent: Aug 22, 2011 7:23 PM
Lots is about right. :-)
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net> wrote:
> How much play is there supposed to be in the left (drivers side) output
> shaft? Seems kind of loose to me, but my old one, the spare and the new one
> all seem the same to me and they all have different shafts.
>
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140555 is a reply to message #140522] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 20:25 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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| Ray Erspamer wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 19:21 |
How much play is there supposed to be in the left (drivers side) output shaft? Seems kind of loose to me, but my old one, the spare and the new one all seem the same to me and they all have different shafts.
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Remember how loose the spare was when you put it in. The MM even hints at how loose it is by the MM instructions to center the outboard bearing plate within the range of movement.
Glad to hear others comments have soothed your concerns.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140559 is a reply to message #140555] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 20:39 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Steve,
The left bearing is the sloppy one. The right one, serving the idler
bearing, is pretty stable. The centering mentioned is for the bearing
bracket which has far bigger mounting holes than seem reasonable.
Unless I've got my cathodes and anodes scrambled again. :-)
When we found Stick Miller's FD empty of black/brown stuff, that bearing
wobbling didn't bother me. But then I touched the ring gear -- it moved
about 1/4"-3/8". That didn't seem quite kosher.
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>wrote:
>
>
> Ray Erspamer wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 19:21
> > How much play is there supposed to be in the left (drivers side) output
> shaft? Seems kind of loose to me, but my old one, the spare and the new one
> all seem the same to me and they all have different shafts.
>
>
> Remember how loose the spare was when you put it in. The MM even hints at
> how loose it is by the MM instructions to center the outboard bearing plate
> within the range of movement.
>
> Glad to hear others comments have soothed your concerns.
> --
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Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140581 is a reply to message #140559] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 00:02 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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The play is there as it is attached to the spider gear, but as the
power is applied, it will be pushed out to where there will be no more
play.
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> The left bearing is the sloppy one. The right one, serving the idler
> bearing, is pretty stable. The centering mentioned is for the bearing
> bracket which has far bigger mounting holes than seem reasonable.
>
> Unless I've got my cathodes and anodes scrambled again. :-)
>
> When we found Stick Miller's FD empty of black/brown stuff, that bearing
> wobbling didn't bother me. But then I touched the ring gear -- it moved
> about 1/4"-3/8". That didn't seem quite kosher.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ray Erspamer wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 19:21
>> > How much play is there supposed to be in the left (drivers side) output
>> shaft? Seems kind of loose to me, but my old one, the spare and the new one
>> all seem the same to me and they all have different shafts.
>>
>>
>> Remember how loose the spare was when you put it in. The MM even hints at
>> how loose it is by the MM instructions to center the outboard bearing plate
>> within the range of movement.
>>
>> Glad to hear others comments have soothed your concerns.
>> --
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140597 is a reply to message #140581] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 07:45 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Jim,
Are you saying that the play I found in Stick's ring gear may have been
normal? Since it was a 3.42, he may want to put it back in -- though there
was a little scuffing of the teeth.
Or are you saying the output tightens?
Ken H.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> The play is there as it is attached to the spider gear, but as the
> power is applied, it will be pushed out to where there will be no more
> play.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> ...
>
> When we found Stick Miller's FD empty of black/brown stuff, that bearing
> > wobbling didn't bother me. But then I touched the ring gear -- it moved
> > about 1/4"-3/8". That didn't seem quite kosher.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
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Ken Henderson
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76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140606 is a reply to message #140522] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 09:00 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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Not Jim, but I'm sure he is referring to the output flange for the drive axle. The ring gear is supported by the differential case which is contained by what should be carefully shimmed and pre-loaded taper roller bearings. Amongst other things, the pre-load brings side-to-side and back and forth looseness to zero. Anything more than that, and bad things will start happening to ring and pinion teeth. If you are referring to actual lash of the ring gear teeth, (distance it can be rotated without touching the pinion teeth, that is also a very small dimension. It is controlled by a shim between the "head" of the pinion gear and the inner pinion bearing. I didn't look up the GMC spec, but it's usually in the .005 to .015'' range.
Reported by someone who set up a lot of G-van axles at the dealership during the 70's van craze. Nothing noisier than a big sheet metal, unibody box on wheels with a poorly set up axle.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140615 is a reply to message #140606] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 09:22 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Thanks, Craig. I didn't REALLY think the ring gear needed to wobble side to
side. :-)
Ken H.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Craig Lechowicz <
craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Not Jim, but I'm sure he is referring to the output flange for the drive
> axle. The ring gear is supported by the differential case which is
> contained by what should be carefully shimmed and pre-loaded taper roller
> bearings. Amongst other things, the pre-load brings side-to-side and back
> and forth looseness to zero. Anything more than that, and bad things will
> start happening to ring and pinion teeth. If you are referring to actual
> lash of the ring gear teeth, (distance it can be rotated without touching
> the pinion teeth, that is also a very small dimension. It is controlled by
> a shim between the "head" of the pinion gear and the inner pinion bearing.
> I didn't look up the GMC spec, but it's usually in the .005 to .015''
> range.
>
> Reported by someone who set up a lot of G-van axles at the dealership
> during the 70's van craze. Nothing noisier than a big sheet metal, unibody
> box on wheels with a poorly set up axle.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140616 is a reply to message #140606] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 09:24 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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If you are wondering about the flange for the CV joint on the Drivers side
of the coach, yes, they can be quite loose. I don't think I ever saw an
exact spec for them, but the through bolt does have a tightening torque
spec. The differential spider gears are shimmed with a curved shim on the
convex outer surfaces. When they come under load, the taper on the face of
the spider gears forces them against the shims and thereby eliminates most
of that slop in the outer flange. Pinion preload and ring gear carrier axial
play are much more important than those flanges. If you can grasp the pinion
imput shaft and still turn it by hand with considerable resistance, assuming
the final drive is off the transmission, it should be OK. There is a spec
for the amount of force required to turn it, but many factors affect that,
like how long the final drive has been kicking around in the junk yard or a
shop floor, etc. Brand new, not broken in, bearings and ring and pinion
gears will be much more difficult to turn than a well broken in unit will
be. Pull the cover and try to wedge the ring gear carrier back and forth. If
any movement is observed, check further.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Craig Lechowicz <
craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Not Jim, but I'm sure he is referring to the output flange for the drive
> axle. The ring gear is supported by the differential case which is
> contained by what should be carefully shimmed and pre-loaded taper roller
> bearings. Amongst other things, the pre-load brings side-to-side and back
> and forth looseness to zero. Anything more than that, and bad things will
> start happening to ring and pinion teeth. If you are referring to actual
> lash of the ring gear teeth, (distance it can be rotated without touching
> the pinion teeth, that is also a very small dimension. It is controlled by
> a shim between the "head" of the pinion gear and the inner pinion bearing.
> I didn't look up the GMC spec, but it's usually in the .005 to .015''
> range.
>
> Reported by someone who set up a lot of G-van axles at the dealership
> during the 70's van craze. Nothing noisier than a big sheet metal, unibody
> box on wheels with a poorly set up axle.
> --
> Craig Lechowicz
> '77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Question [message #140645 is a reply to message #140559] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 14:24 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 20:39 |
Steve,
The left bearing is the sloppy one. The right one, serving the idler
bearing, is pretty stable. The centering mentioned is for the bearing
bracket which has far bigger mounting holes than seem reasonable.
Ken H.
|
You are correct. I was thinking of the RH side.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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