| Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140407] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 08:23  |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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The PO had Eagle 034 wheels installed but they are not hub centric. I just had the wheels balanced and trued, but I still get a vibration at hyway speed. I can also feel a slight up-down at slow speeds (stop'n go traffic) so I'm thinking at least one wheel is not centered.
Has anyone used hub centric rings to properly center the wheels?
Has any the proper size of the rings required for Eagles?
thanks all
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140409 is a reply to message #140407] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 08:30  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bruce,
You're apparently using fixed wheel weights. Join the club of balancing
bead users and see if that handles the problem. (Though I'd definitely want
centering rings with lug-centered wheels.)
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Bruce Hislop <bruce@perthcomm.com> wrote:
>
>
> The PO had Eagle 034 wheels installed but they are not hub centric. I just
> had the wheels balanced and trued, but I still get a vibration at hyway
> speed. I can also feel a slight up-down at slow speeds (stop'n go traffic)
> so I'm thinking at least one wheel is not centered.
>
> Has anyone used hub centric rings to properly center the wheels?
>
> Has any the proper size of the rings required for Eagles?
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140410 is a reply to message #140407] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 08:34 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Bruce, did you have the wheel shake before you installed the Hubler? Ron
Smith of the GMC Cascaders has a similar problem that you are describing.
His ride height is WAY LOW. 2-3 inches. He also has the lug centered Alcoas
and the Hubler Front end. Worked on it last week & had to replace the
torsion bars to get the ride height correct. Talked to him last night but he
isn't quite through changing the bars. Will try to let y'all know the
outcome.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Bruce Hislop <bruce@perthcomm.com> wrote:
>
>
> The PO had Eagle 034 wheels installed but they are not hub centric. I just
> had the wheels balanced and trued, but I still get a vibration at hyway
> speed. I can also feel a slight up-down at slow speeds (stop'n go traffic)
> so I'm thinking at least one wheel is not centered.
>
> Has anyone used hub centric rings to properly center the wheels?
>
> Has any the proper size of the rings required for Eagles?
>
> thanks all
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop,
> S. Ontario Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
> Hubler front end installed and WOW! !:)
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140414 is a reply to message #140410] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 08:57 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| James Hupy wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 08:34 |
Worked on it last week & had to replace the
torsion bars to get the ride height correct.
|
Jim,
What was the reason to replace the torsion bars? Were they fatigued? Do the torsion bars get to the point where they will not function properly? I thought the first step would be longer adj bolts then pork chops with a differently clocking was the approach to gain more height.
Thanks.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140429 is a reply to message #140414] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 09:57 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Randy, The torsion bars on Rons coach have fatigued over time and have taken
a bow or twist that is permanent. With the pork chop adjusted until it hits
the inside of the crossmember, the ride height is still low. If another hex
(60 degrees) is taken with the porkchop, with enough tension on the porkchop
to clear the adjustment nut, then the ride is too high. The hex ends on his
old bars are no longer parallel with each other as a new one is. The correct
pork chop is 23 degrees from that position, the other two are 25 and 28
degrees respectively, which won't correct it either. In this particular
coach, which has the hubler front end with the reinforced torsion bar
sockets, the only corrective measure is replacement of the bars. There needs
to be a hex end on one end of the bars, and a 40 spline coupler on the
porkchop with the other end of the torsion bar splined to match. Then, as
sagging occurs over time, you could adjust by two or three splines and make
things correct again without long adjustment bolts or replacement of the
bars. Sway Away racing suspensions makes sprint car and off road torsion bar
suspension components that possibly could be grafted onto the GMC setup, and
there are other torsion bars out there that are splined as well. Summers
Brothers can respline axles, so I don't think it would be too great of a
leap for them to do torsion bars either. Solutions exist, but I don't have
the time to chase them down. Anyone else feel up to the task?
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Randy Van Winkle <rvanwin@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> James Hupy wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 08:34
> > Worked on it last week & had to replace the
> > torsion bars to get the ride height correct.
>
> Jim,
>
> What was the reason to replace the torsion bars? Were they fatigued? Do
> the torsion bars get to the point where they will not function properly? I
> thought the first step would be longer adj bolts then pork chops with a
> differently clocking was the approach to gain more height.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140434 is a reply to message #140429] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 10:15 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| James Hupy wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 09:57 |
Randy, The torsion bars on Rons coach have fatigued over time and have taken
a bow or twist that is permanent. With the pork chop adjusted until it hits
the inside of the crossmember, the ride height is still low. If another hex
(60 degrees) is taken with the porkchop, with enough tension on the porkchop
to clear the adjustment nut, then the ride is too high. The hex ends on his
old bars are no longer parallel with each other as a new one is.
|
Jim,
Thanks, I'm having trouble getting the right height and I noticed one torsion bar is bowed a little when under tension. I haven't checked to see if they are permanently twisted. I suspect that would be a good exercise for me to do. I have a set of longer adj. bolts coming and will see if that will get the 1 - 1 1/2 in. that I need. Seems like the front keeps sagging down over the last 4 years. The sockets are all good so don't have a problem there. Thanks for the explanation.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140458 is a reply to message #140407] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 13:46 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 09:23 |
The PO had Eagle 034 wheels installed but they are not hub centric. I just had the wheels balanced and trued, but I still get a vibration at hyway speed. I can also feel a slight up-down at slow speeds (stop'n go traffic) so I'm thinking at least one wheel is not centered.
Has anyone used hub centric rings to properly center the wheels?
Has any the proper size of the rings required for Eagles?
thanks all
|
Are you sure you have the proper lugnuts for the Eagle wheels? They are different than stock and the Alcoas. They should have a removable washer and a shoulder that fits inside the wheel hole completely. This is what centers the wheel. If you have thr right lugnuts you might have a bent wheel. Easy to do with aluminum wheels. Jack it up so you can rotate the tire with a socket or board sitting close to the outside of tire and another center of tread and rotate slowly and look.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140461 is a reply to message #140407] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 14:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Ok here we go again.
The Eagle wheels you have are HUB CENTERED wheels. They were designed for a hub that is .031" larger than what you have. That means that the maximum you could possibly be off center is .0155 inch". Your tires are not that accurate. I have trued many tires on Blaine's truing machine. I can not get a tire down .015" on the machine.
When I got my Eagle wheels I worried about the .015" issue so I got some .015" stock and made spacers for the wheel to the hub and installed them on all 6 wheels. In the first 14 miles all 6 of the shims fell out.
I have found that the wheels centered accurately using the Eagle supplied nuts and that the spacers I made were useless and a waste of time. I would not make the shims any thicker as you may never get the wheels off in the future without heating or damaging them. Normally wheels have a little gap between them and the hub to allow easier removal at a later date.
If you feel that you have a centering problem take a set of feeler gauges and measure the distance between the wheels and the hubs. I'll bet you will find them centered within a few thousands of an inch.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140463 is a reply to message #140461] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 14:27 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I am wondering if your wheels are really balanced correctly. I do not know much about this but I understand that there is a special adapter required to mount our type of wheels on a balancing machine machine.
The easy way to check if they are balanced correctly is to dismount the wheels and remount them again on the balancer to see if they still show up in balance.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140483 is a reply to message #140464] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 16:03 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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I was there watching as the guy spun the wheels on the balancer and the Eagles were running true, 3 had flat spots (the two rear rear wheels and can't remember the third.
Sir: tires with flat spots will cause the coach to hop probably more than you think it should.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140485 is a reply to message #140464] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 16:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have NEVER had an Eagle wheel mount and not be centered. Do you realize how small .015" is? You will never see that amount on an balancer or truing machine and the is the maximum possible with those wheels.
On the balancing you need to balance them, dismount the wheel, remount it again on the balancer in a different position, and check it again. I'll bet they are not correct.
The easiest, and in my opinion the best, thing to do on balancing is to use balancing beads like Equal or Counteract. Some people use Airsoft beads from Walmart.
I guess you could also jack up the coach and use a dial indicator on your rims to see if the wheels are really running off centered. That way you would not have to remove the hub caps to check them with a feeler gauge. I'm running without hub caps so I forgot that you need to remove them to check with a feeler gauge.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140502 is a reply to message #140493] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 17:47 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 16:49 |
Ken,
At slow stop'n go traffic I can really feel an up/down movement from the rear so I figured it was a rim not centered, since mine are not hub centric wheels.
Maybe I've got a tire going... I'll try to check that. I need to get some wedges or a bar to bring up the bogies to make it easier.
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what tires are you running? i tried some cheap ones and 4 of 6 were bad.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: Hub Centric Rings for Eagles [message #140509 is a reply to message #140493] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 18:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Jack up about one inch on the center mount for the bogies. Deflate the air bag COMPLETELY. I usually disconnect the air line at the bag. Take a second jack and raise the wheel from the rear on the center shaft. Just about any jack will do (hydraulic or screw / scissor type). I actually can lift this on my own with out a jack so there will not be much weight on the second jack. Spin that wheel and take your measurements. Then then move on to the second one of the pair.
You can do the same thing with one jack by airing up the bag completely and then dropping the coach on a block of wood under the center mount. Let the bag completely deflate. and use the single jack on the rear of the center hub as above.
Keep in mind that the tire will have a natural flat spot from the coach sitting on it. If you are going to look at the tire (not the wheel) you need to take the coach out and drive it for 5 miles or so to warm up the tires and remove the flat spot(s). Bring it back and IMMEDIATELY jack it up to remove the weight off of the tire(s).
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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