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| estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 05:32  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
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I've got a question for all. In all the documentation on our GMC motorhome, has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
Thanks,
Tom
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Tue, 16 August 2011 05:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139397 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 05:45  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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> I've got a question for all. In all the documentationon our GMC motorhome, has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor (time) in doing all the restoration task,
here are some lists of things to consider , and some costs,
http://www.gmcmotorhome.info/buygmc.html
but
to assign costs and time per task is very dependent upon if you do
your own work, and what you want done
good luck
gene
such as dropping the tanks and replacing the gas hoses, replacing
brake lines, installing electric priming fuel pumps...tuning up the
engine...things of that matter? If there has been something like that
put together, could you guys point me towards it?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and -------
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139400 is a reply to message #139397] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 06:08 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
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Understood Gene, I'm just trying to get a middle of the road estimate of time per item on the list you gave a link to. I'm not even needing that. I'm looking for the restoration items that are mechanical, and are the ones everyone agrees are the items that should be addressed and done to get the motorhome safe and opperating well. Brake lines, gas lines, tune up on engine, shocks, iso pads...such things as that. For myself it's to have something I could use as a guidline when I get a mechanic working on these things, but I think this would help others as well, if they either want to do it themself or have someone doing it.
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Tue, 16 August 2011 06:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139402 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 06:19 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Tom,
If there were such a table, which would require far more data
gathering and compilation than we're organized to conduct, I wouldn't
trust it at all. There's just too much variation in people's skills,
habits, and expectations. Some are content to work through the
accumulated grease and superfluous added bits and haywire things
together. Others have to clean, paint & polish everything in sight
before they'll begin a task, correct any discrepancy they see, then
replace every thing related to the task at hand with new or better
items, including precisely fitted SS fasteners. Obviously there can
be an order of magnitude difference in the time they spend on a given
task.
For my part, I have to take everyone's highest estimate and triple it
-- not 'cause I'm meticulous but because I'm just slow & have to sit
down every now & then to try to remember what I was doing. What was
it you asked? :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:32 AM, tom geiger <tgeiger@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've got a question for all. In all the documentationon our GMC motorhome, has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139407 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 07:13 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
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The problem with doing an estimate of time to complete a job is that it is just an estimate. And from what I have experienced in the last month of ownership (yes I am a newbie)
even simple jobs snowball.
Last week I went to go change the motor oil and filter, this should be a 15 to 20 min job.
so I started at about 10 am. Oldest daughter has permit so she drives us over to the Auto parts store to grab filter and oil, first store no filter in stock for the 455, on to the next. not only do they list one in their computer but the oil is on sale and the filter will be free. back to the house to start the job. some how almost an hour had been eating up. took a bit to get the drain plug out. the PO must have used an impact wrench set at 350 foot pounds to tighten it in. drained oil next remove filter. oops the filter is really big around I needed to run back to the auto parts store to get a wrench to fit. by the time we get back it is well past lunch time so we stop and make something to eat. back under the GMC and wow did the PO ever tighten the oil filter! 4 full turns using a 2 foot extension bar on the filter wrench before I could get it to unscrew by hand. grab new (free) filter and start to install...hmmm rubber seal is in a different location then the one that just came off. Not going to seal. Off we go to a different parts store. they carry different brands and we have part numbers for them. get the right filter and head back to house. just in time to go pick the wife up from work. supper time. (still no oil or filter in gmc) after supper install filter. fill with oil check for leaks put tools away. clean up finish time around 7:30pm Just a bit over 9 hours. yep good job.
Sunday I wanted to re-seal the drivers wheel well.....my air power impact wrench not up to the job of getting the lug nuts off. have no idea how tight the PO may have tightened them. called a buddy to bring over his extension bar for the 2 foot breaker bar. 2 of us on about 6 feet of bar we were able to get the lug nuts to let go. once we had the wheels off we checked the bearings for grease. time to repack them. We got one bearing set finished before it started to rain we hope to finish up sometime next week.....
the time to complete the "job" you start depends on where you are doing it how many tools you own. if your outside then every job depends on the weather. if you are doing your own work and have never worked on your coach before then it WILL take longer as you find out every little detail of the job. I have been working on small british cars since I was 16. this is the first time I have gotten into anything this large. some of the tools need to be bigger as well 
If your taking the coach to a mechanic to get the work done they have a guide they are going to charge you by anyway. the "book" will tell them to charge for so many hours to do any task. they maybe able to finish it faster or they may end up taking a bit of extra time. depends on what they run into as they do the task.
like my oil change example if the computer at say jiffy lube shows to use the wrong filter and they have to get the filter brought in from a parts store that will add at least 10 min to the job. so the 20 min in and out job is now 30 min long. if the filter is stuck because someone over tightened it. then they could take 30 min to dismantle the assembly and get the filter off using a vise on the bench. (watched that happen once) so now even at a shop with trained mechanics your 15-20 min job is up to about an hour. (somebody is not making any money now)
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
[Updated on: Tue, 16 August 2011 07:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139408 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 07:32 |
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Hardie Johnson
Messages: 483
Registered: January 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Karma: 0
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| tgeiger wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 06:32 |
I've got a question for all. In all the documentation on our GMC motorhome, has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor (time) in doing all the restoration task
|
It took me a weekend, maybe 10 hours, to drop my empty tanks, replace the hoses and reinstall. All brake flex hoses took a full day. Front brake pads, a couple of hours.
Since there are so many variables in our labor effectiveness, this estimate should be based on the time a professional would take to do it. The several professional shops probably know well what their labor content is, but I doubt they are willing to share that data.
So the answer to "How much time does it take", is "How much time you got?"
"Time is money"
Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
Raleigh NC
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139411 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 07:43 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| tgeiger wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 06:32 |
I've got a question for all. In all the documentation on our GMC motorhome, has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
Thanks,
Tom
|
Tom,
To My Knowledge, this information has not been cataloged. I understand why you would like this information, but for thirty plus (near forty) year old vehicles with very different histories, it is just not even approachable. Collecting that data would be noble effort, but nearly impossible to make consistent.
This is not a "flat rate" situation that assumes jobs can be completed with little variation. Maybe something like a tune-up or lube service could be close, but the last time I did a front end grease job, it took over two hours because a ball joint would not take any grease. Even in a Flat-Rate shop in a controlled state, they still only give estimates and not quotes.
Let's look at your list-
Drop tanks and replace rubber lines:
Can you get the drain plugs out of your tanks? - many cannot.
Will the required fasteners un-screw or will they have to be cut and replaced?
I got mine down and back up in a work day, but I have known many to take much longer.
Replace a rubber break line:
Will the original unscrew without damaging the steel lines or the cylinder?
Will you be able to open the bleeder or will you have to replace the wheel cylinder as well?
A tune-up:
Is it HEI or older? Big variation there.
A tune-up on a modern vehicle amounts to changing plugs and maybe looking at the distributor cap. That is just not the case here.
Even if such data existed, it would be hard to use as we all work at different paces and with varying, levels of attention to peripheral details.
My advise to you is to expect that anything will be much harder and take longer than you ever expected, you will not often be disappointed. The nice thing about doing your own work is that you can be sure it was done correctly and with all the attention to detail that you could never pay a typical shop to do.
I don't like working on cars or coaches, but if I do it, I know that it got done right and will not be an issue again.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139417 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 08:17 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Yeah, most of the restorations I've done, and I completly understand the concern on estimating hours on the effort because, yes I had to redo things and learn as I go. So I would completly understand these are rough estimates. But on the otherhand there are things I would rather have a mechanic do for the fact I'm not so good at those things, and if I had a middle of the road estimate of each of the task that some of you guys know of then it would help in the cost estimation of doing the jobs with a mechanic. Just some guidlines is what I'm after.
Nothing to be absolute on, just some guidlines. If there wasn't anything, I could put together something if all would like, if I was provided the information, and also include a big fat disclaimer stating that the document is meant for a guidline and not to be represented as actual time to do the repair. How's that sound?
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Tue, 16 August 2011 08:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139420 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 08:19 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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It only took me 10 years Tom.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:32 AM, tom geiger <tgeiger@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've got a question for all. In all the documentationon our GMC motorhome,
> has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor
> (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and
> replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming
> fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has
> been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139423 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 08:36 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Tom,
To paraphrase J.P. Morgan when asked how much his yacht cost, "if you have
to ask, you don't want one!"
V-V-VBG!
Also YOU really don't want to know!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: tom geiger
I've got a question for all. In all the documentationon our GMC motorhome,
has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor
(time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and
replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming
fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has
been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
Thanks,
Tom
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139435 is a reply to message #139423] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 09:28 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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If there ever was a question for which there is an unending answer, this one
has to qualify very high on the list. <Grin>
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403 (Years of labor and still counting)
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Tom,
>
> To paraphrase J.P. Morgan when asked how much his yacht cost, "if you have
> to ask, you don't want one!"
>
> V-V-VBG!
>
> Also YOU really don't want to know!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom geiger
>
>
> I've got a question for all. In all the documentationon our GMC motorhome,
> has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor
> (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and
> replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming
> fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has
> been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139436 is a reply to message #139411] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 09:29 |
Mike Teets
Messages: 299
Registered: January 2004
Location: Dublin, OH
Karma: 0
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Tanks: Maybe a range would be helpful... I dropped the tanks and replaced
all the rubber on my 77. I did it over four days, about 30 hours. I
cleaned and painted the tank exteriors, new gaskets and socks on the gauges,
and ran around finding the right small clamps and such. Big hoses all came
from Cinnibar. About 6 months later, did my dad's 74 coach in about 4
hours, without repainting anything and by having all the parts at hand.
Drain plugs would not remove from any of the tanks.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> tgeiger wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 06:32
> > I've got a question for all. In all the documentation on our GMC
> motorhome, has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the
> expected labor (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping
> the tanks and replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing
> electric priming fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter?
> If there has been something like that put together, could you guys point
> me towards it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
>
> Tom,
>
> To My Knowledge, this information has not been cataloged. I understand why
> you would like this information, but for thirty plus (near forty) year old
> vehicles with very different histories, it is just not even approachable.
> Collecting that data would be noble effort, but nearly impossible to make
> consistent.
>
> This is not a "flat rate" situation that assumes jobs can be completed with
> little variation. Maybe something like a tune-up or lube service could be
> close, but the last time I did a front end grease job, it took over two
> hours because a ball joint would not take any grease. Even in a Flat-Rate
> shop in a controlled state, they still only give estimates and not quotes.
>
> Let's look at your list-
> Drop tanks and replace rubber lines:
> Can you get the drain plugs out of your tanks? - many cannot.
> Will the required fasteners un-screw or will they have to be cut and
> replaced?
> I got mine down and back up in a work day, but I have known many to take
> much longer.
>
> Replace a rubber break line:
> Will the original unscrew without damaging the steel lines or the cylinder?
> Will you be able to open the bleeder or will you have to replace the wheel
> cylinder as well?
>
> A tune-up:
> Is it HEI or older? Big variation there.
> A tune-up on a modern vehicle amounts to changing plugs and maybe looking
> at the distributor cap. That is just not the case here.
>
> Even if such data existed, it would be hard to use as we all work at
> different paces and with varying, levels of attention to peripheral details.
>
> My advise to you is to expect that anything will be much harder and take
> longer than you ever expected, you will not often be disappointed. The nice
> thing about doing your own work is that you can be sure it was done
> correctly and with all the attention to detail that you could never pay a
> typical shop to do.
>
> I don't like working on cars or coaches, but if I do it, I know that it got
> done right and will not be an issue again.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Mike, GMCing since 2002
77 Palm Beach, 260, 403
Dublin, OH
http://teamteets.com/gmc/
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139449 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 11:32 |
LYNN L
Messages: 140
Registered: March 2005
Location: Pearland TX.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If you are really worried about the time, then you should buy another SOB. Working on a GMC is both a challenge and a labor of love with some cursing thrown in on occasion. I especially like upgrading the origional upgrade. 
Lynn SR.
Lynn L
76 Eleganza Cad.500
Pearland TX.
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139451 is a reply to message #139407] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 11:51 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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LOL, yes I have a dog that is hyper active some early mornings..she's getting up there in age and when she starts wimpering she wants out I pay attention. Saves on the carpet clean up. Anyhow, once I'm up, I'm up. So I'm guilty of getting a cup of coffee in me and brainstorming, might reflect the content of this request.
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Tue, 16 August 2011 11:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139490 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 15:50 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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I have to agree with Matt. I have been restoring 1955, 56 and 57
Thunderbirds for years . No two are ever alike. Take a 1957 from the
Tucson area and a 1955 from Northern New England and it would be hard to
believe they came from the same factory.
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 5:32 AM, tom geiger <tgeiger@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've got a question for all. In all the documentationon our GMC motorhome,
> has there ever been a estimate or table generated on the expected labor
> (time) in doing all the restoration task, such as dropping the tanks and
> replacing the gas hoses, replacing brake lines, installing electric priming
> fuel pumps...tuning up the engine...things of that matter? If there has
> been something like that put together, could you guys point me towards it?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139512 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 18:20 |
AStasunas
Messages: 58
Registered: April 2009
Location: Winter Springs, Fl
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I hate this answer, but it depends. I got my coach 2+ years ago with the idea of a self directed restoration. As I got into it the issue more and more became not what to do but where to stop. I looked at this a my JOB and spent on average 5 days a week and 5 hours a day "renovating" my coach. Each time I started in an area I was faced with the decision of how much to do.
I think the question you need to consider is if you are Commited to a restoration or enough to get it on the road and enjoyable. Either is okay but there can be a HUGE difference in time and money.
Regards,
Tony
"Vinnie"
1975 Eleganza,
Winter Springs, Fl
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| Re: estimated hours for restoration of GMC [message #139514 is a reply to message #139396] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 18:28 |
bwevers
Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I gave up trying to estimate the time involved. I figure that I'll
be working on it whenever I have spare time (and if the spouse doesn't want something fixed in the house). I bought mine 7 years ago and the brakes didn't work. It took 3 different master cylinders, all the brake lines, new combo valve. I basically had to
do the brakes all over 3 times in 6 years. The first brake job was done by a shop that was not familiar with GMC's. The latest brake job included Bill Hubler's front end with 13 inch rotors. That made a huge difference in braking.
I agree that it all depends on where you bought your coach from. I would have been better off buying one that was already in good condition. Mine was original, but was a basket case.
Regards,
Bill
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
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