Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box
| [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #138987] |
Sat, 13 August 2011 23:37  |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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In preparation for Goshen, I'm going over the front end of the coach, and I noticed there is a lot of play from the input shaft on the steering box.
I also noted that there is some kind of preload instructions in the shop manual.
Suggestions and wisdom?
Thanks.
Dolph
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #138989 is a reply to message #138987] |
Sun, 14 August 2011 00:05  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Dolph,
You are going to get different advice on this subject, people are going to
tell you that they adjusted the steering box by loosening the lock nut on
the adjustment set screw and turning it in a bit and it worked just fine for
them.
Being an ex aircraft technician I have a problem making adjustments like
that especially in light of the DETAILED procedure in the MM.
The steering box is the heart of the steering system, I am inclined to
follow the instructions that GM put in the manual.
It's your GMC and it's up to you!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dolph Santorine
Sent: Sunday, 14 August 2011 2:38 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box
In preparation for Goshen, I'm going over the front end of the coach, and I
noticed there is a lot of play from the input shaft on the steering box.
I also noted that there is some kind of preload instructions in the shop
manual.
Suggestions and wisdom?
Thanks.
Dolph
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139141 is a reply to message #138987] |
Sun, 14 August 2011 18:46 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Dolph has found excessive movement in his steering box input shaft :
Hi Dolph,
Well Dolph you're probably far from being alone in your delima, Rob Mueller and Chuck Boyd were kind enough to check out my steering linkages at Bean Station and found similar play in the input shaft of my steering box.
I removed the box this weekend and proceeded to set it up with assistance from the GMC MH manual, Don Werth's write up on the Eastern States tech site and some written hints from Lenzi.
I found it extremely hard to eyeball parallism between the flat spot on the input shaft and the adjuster plate, so I clamped some steel plates on the box for reference purposes, seemed to make the job easier.
No matter what anyone says, it would be nothing short of a miracle to attempt to find the "High point" without removing the box from the coach. You will do more harm than good if you attempt to adjust the "High point screw" whilst the box is on the coach. Not to be dramatic or a smart a$$ , but your chance of success would be about the same as firing a rifle at a flock of Canada geese on a moonless night and expecting to get one.
Finding the high point is relatively easy but maintaining it whilst reinstalling the box is difficult. Check the photos I recently uploaded to see if the might be of help.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40150&title=steering-001&cat=33
Cheers......Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139176 is a reply to message #138987] |
Sun, 14 August 2011 20:24 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Do you mean the input shaft is loose on it's bearing? ( will need repair work) or that for X input you are not getting X output without a delay before movement? The second condition can be adjusted out if nothing else is damaged. However the only correct way is out of the coach. You can armchair adjust it an 1/8 turn at a time, but many steering boxes have been ruined by overadjusting the preload. A case where more is not better. There is a whole step by step proceedure written by Don Wirth as a 5 page PDF. I'm not exactly sure where that doc resides but if you email me at gransport@aol.com I can attach a copy back to you.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139234 is a reply to message #139141] |
Mon, 15 August 2011 07:59 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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what a fine set of "instructional " pictures.
http://goo.gl/d4z1n
thanks for them all
I hope to point to all of them soon from my web page
we should all document so well
thanks again
gene
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe
<branscoa@bmts.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dolph has found excessive movement in his steering box input shaft :
>
> Hi Dolph,
> Well Dolph you're probably far from being alone in your delima, Rob Mueller and Chuck Boyd were kind enough to check out my steering linkages at Bean Station and found similar play in the input shaft of my steering box.
> I removed the box this weekend and proceeded to set it up with assistance from the GMC MH manual, Don Werth's write up on the Eastern States tech site and some written hints from Lenzi.
> I found it extremely hard to eyeball parallism between the flat spot on the input shaft and the adjuster plate, so I clamped some steel plates on the box for reference purposes, seemed to make the job easier.
> No matter what anyone says, it would be nothing short of a miracle to attempt to find the "High point" without removing the box from the coach. You will do more harm than good if you attempt to adjust the "High point screw" whilst the box is on the coach. Not to be dramatic or a smart a$$ , but your chance of success would be about the same as firing a rifle at a flock of Canada geese on a moonless night and expecting to get one.
> Finding the high point is relatively easy but maintaining it whilst reinstalling the box is difficult. Check the photos I recently uploaded to see if the might be of help.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40150&title=steering-001&cat=33
>
> Cheers......Albert
> 78 Barbi
> The 23 foot Birchaven
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and -------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139242 is a reply to message #139232] |
Mon, 15 August 2011 08:22 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Oh, I understand your dilemma, Bruce. The answer I've usually heard from
the "experts" is that that pitman arm should "point straight down". That's
nowhere near precise enough to suit me, but it's the best I've heard. Sure
would be nice if someone came up with something better. Even Albert's
device has a fundamental flaw, long term: if the lock nut is ever moved,
his slot may not be in the right location the next time someone tries to use
it.
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bruce Hislop <bruce@perthcomm.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken,
> I saw Albert's photos and his little rig to hold the steering box in
> position and that's great when you have take it out of coach.
>
> However once that point is found, can the pitman arm not be used to
> advantage to more easily find this high point?
>
> Since the high point is found using a tiny flat spot on the shaft, sticking
> the pitman arm on and looking for an easier measurement point off the end of
> the pitman arm would make finding this point much easier.
>
> I can't think of an easy way to explain this. Maybe calling it an
> hypotenuse measurement from the end of the pitman arm to some point on the
> steering box.
>
> I went looking for a photo of a steering box with a pitman arm attached in
> the web that I could use to explain my idea but I could not find any.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139259 is a reply to message #139232] |
Mon, 15 August 2011 10:46 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Bruce wrote:
Since the high point is found using a tiny flat spot on the shaft, sticking the pitman arm on and looking for an easier measurement point off the end of the pitman arm would make finding this point much easier.
Hi Bruce,
In spite of what the " experts say" the pitman arm does not point straight down when on the high spot, at least ours doesn't, I'm 7.6 degrees off perpindicular when referencing the pitman arm to the perpindicular axis of the steering box.
The shaft of the pitman arm has 4 " block teeth" ( ie. a missing spline) at 90 degree intervals and when on the "high point" these block teeth are in a dead horizontal and vertical position with reference to the axis of the steering box.
The thing you have to remember is the ratio relationship to the pitman arm shaft and the input shaft. 1/4 of a degree or so out on the pitman arm shaft and you've lost your high point on the input shaft.
After doing the thrust adjustment on the steering box and BEFORE cutting the notches for the anti rotation tab; I center punched 3 index marks, one on the steering box itself, one on the large adjuster nut, and one on the lock nut to ensure alignment if I ever had to readjust the thrust again.
Cheers.....Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
Tiverton, ON
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139391 is a reply to message #139141] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 01:52 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Albert,
Nice job!
One other thing, I replaced the coarse threaded bolt and nut that clamps the
universal joint on the steering box splines with a fine threaded bolt so I
could increase the torque.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Albert&Sheila Branscombe
Hi Dolph,
Well Dolph you're probably far from being alone in your delima, Rob
Mueller and Chuck Boyd were kind enough to check out my steering linkages at
Bean Station and found similar play in the input shaft of my steering box.
I removed the box this weekend and proceeded to set it up with
assistance from the GMC MH manual, Don Werth's write up on the Eastern
States tech site and some written hints from Lenzi.
I found it extremely hard to eyeball parallism between the flat spot on
the input shaft and the adjuster plate, so I clamped some steel plates on
the box for reference purposes, seemed to make the job easier.
No matter what anyone says, it would be nothing short of a miracle to
attempt to find the "High point" without removing the box from the coach.
You will do more harm than good if you attempt to adjust the "High point
screw" whilst the box is on the coach. Not to be dramatic or a smart a$$ ,
but your chance of success would be about the same as firing a rifle at a
flock of Canada geese on a moonless night and expecting to get one.
Finding the high point is relatively easy but maintaining it whilst
reinstalling the box is difficult. Check the photos I recently uploaded to
see if the might be of help.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40150&title=steering-0
01&cat=33
Cheers......Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139469 is a reply to message #139394] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 13:50 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Bruce H. Wrote:
Albert,
I took a few photos underneath of the steering box and pitman arm myself tonight. There really isn't a good a good location to get a measurement off the pitman arm.
I'd be interested in seeing a photo of where you took your measurement mentioned in your post.
Hey Bruce ,
I don't have your email address or I'd send you the photos, I posted them on our photo site. In a "nutshell" I made an adapter for the large pitman arm nut out of a 33 mm socket and hung a plumb bob off it and referenced where the string intersected the hole where the draglink stud fits in. This is obviously crude but it may get you in the ball park. The centre line of the lower hole in our pitman arm is 3/16" inboard when referenced to the big nut that holds the arm to the output shaft of the steering box.( With the box on the high point)
To take this one step further, and assuming you have your drag link disconnected from the pitman arm; Once you come off the high spot there is instantly play in the pitman arm, this is normal, and you can literally push and pull on the end of the pitman arm and it will readily move. Move the steering slightly in each direction and note where you start to get play and at the half way point is the high point and you should not be able to move the pitman arm at all. DO NOT ADJUST THE HIGH POINT ADJUSTER, I used a 6 foot piece of aluminum box tube attached to the rear two wheels and attached a laser level to it and set the front wheels ( read: adjustable drag link) until the front and rear of the wheel was equal distance from the laser beam. This is crude but it will suffice to get it to the wheel alignment facility. Give me a call @ (519) 368-7129
Cheers.....Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
Tiverton, ON
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front End/Steering Box [message #139531 is a reply to message #138987] |
Tue, 16 August 2011 20:17 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I thought the way Don had explained it it was pretty simple to eyeball the flat on the input shaft to the flat machined surface where the cover attaches to be on centre.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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