Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... (the shop is out of ideas.)
| Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138199] |
Tue, 09 August 2011 17:26  |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The power steering pump that I replaced before leaving Savannah failed after about 20 miles. I decided to drive on.
400 miles later, when I lost my transmission and was towed to a shop in Bridgewater VA, I asked the guy to take a look at the PS pump too.
He did, and has now replaced the pump a few times, the steering box once or twice, and the seals in the box once. Each time, the system blows out somewhere. Today, he was sure he finally had it worked out, and called me in to pick up the coach. Sometime in the 15 minutes between the call and my arrival, the system failed again at the steering box seals.
I suggested that they bypass the wiper manifold and possibly the inline filter that I added, to see if it will hold with only the pump and the box in the system. They'll try that in the morning.
Any other ideas?
I can live without wipers/power steering if I must, and would have chosen to if I'd imagined it would consume an extra week (and counting) to work on it. But if it's close, might as well get it resolved.
In positive news, they finally took Manny's transmission put for a test drive today, and all's well on that front.
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138201 is a reply to message #138199] |
Tue, 09 August 2011 17:35  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| Andrew wrote on Tue, 09 August 2011 18:26 |
The power steering pump that I replaced before leaving Savannah failed after about 20 miles. I decided to drive on.
400 miles later, when I lost my transmission and was towed to a shop in Bridgewater VA, I asked the guy to take a look at the PS pump too.
He did, and has now replaced the pump a few times, the steering box once or twice, and the seals in the box once. Each time, the system blows out somewhere. Today, he was sure he finally had it worked out, and called me in to pick up the coach. Sometime in the 15 minutes between the call and my arrival, the system failed again at the steering box seals.
I suggested that they bypass the wiper manifold and possibly the inline filter that I added, to see if it will hold with only the pump and the box in the system. They'll try that in the morning.
Any other ideas?
I can live without wipers/power steering if I must, and would have chosen to if I'd imagined it would consume an extra week (and counting) to work on it. But if it's close, might as well get it resolved.
In positive news, they finally took Manny's transmission put for a test drive today, and all's well on that front.
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Sir: the ps pressure is regulated by a spring loaded check valve with washers in the adapter where the high pressure hose screws into the pump. If the new pumps did not have this and you had to use your original, I would check or change this. Adding shims reduces pressure, I think???
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138205 is a reply to message #138199] |
Tue, 09 August 2011 19:48 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Andrew,
The following is an unpaid blatant and unabashed plug for electric
windshield wipers!
Are you tired of having windshield wipers that you can't shut off?
Are you tired of having to clean up power steering fluid dripping from the
hydraulic windshield wiper motor and surrounds?
Are you tired of having windshield wipers that work - sometimes?
Are you tired of having windshield wipers that don't sweep the same arc?
Are you tired of a windshield wiper that screws up your power steering
system?
If you are you need Colonel Ken's world famous super duper whiz bang
ELECTRIC wiper system!
http://www.gmcwipersetc.com/
As seen advertized on the Bdub website!
No baby hydraulics have been harmed in creating this ad!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2011 8:27 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later...
The power steering pump that I replaced before leaving Savannah failed after
about 20 miles. I decided to drive on.
400 miles later, when I lost my transmission and was towed to a shop in
Bridgewater VA, I asked the guy to take a look at the PS pump too.
He did, and has now replaced the pump a few times, the steering box once or
twice, and the seals in the box once. Each time, the system blows out
somewhere. Today, he was sure he finally had it worked out, and called me in
to pick up the coach. Sometime in the 15 minutes between the call and my
arrival, the system failed again at the steering box seals.
I suggested that they bypass the wiper manifold and possibly the inline
filter that I added, to see if it will hold with only the pump and the box
in the system. They'll try that in the morning.
Any other ideas?
I can live without wipers/power steering if I must, and would have chosen to
if I'd imagined it would consume an extra week (and counting) to work on it.
But if it's close, might as well get it resolved.
In positive news, they finally took Manny's transmission put for a test
drive today, and all's well on that front.
--
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
Savannah, GA
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138216 is a reply to message #138201] |
Tue, 09 August 2011 21:32 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| C Boyd wrote on Tue, 09 August 2011 17:35 |
Sir: the ps pressure is regulated by a spring loaded check valve with washers in the adapter where the high pressure hose screws into the pump. If the new pumps did not have this and you had to use your original, I would check or change this. Adding shims reduces pressure, I think???
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The pressure hose I took off had a steel 90deg tube into a 3/8(?) threaded connector. I thought the relief valve was integral to the ps pump assembly (or at least "inside" the reservoir enclosure). I didn't open up the new one to compare internals though.. That is concerning.
| klassic kampers wrote |
have you removed the original filter in the wiper motor...they get contaiminated and restrict return fluid........this original filter WILL blow your pump, hoses and steering gearbox...
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Yes, the original brass filter was removed, probably about 20 years ago. I went looking for it a few weeks back. I added an inline filter on the return line... Doesn't seem like a likely culprit, but I'd rather eliminate it than keep going in circles.
Electric wipers are definitely on my wish list now. A couple days after I'm moving again, I will be in another resting spot (Boston). Once there I have a date with sir Onan and some window felts. We will see what else can be realistically addressed at that point..!
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138236 is a reply to message #138223] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 08:45 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 10 August 2011 01:40 |
,
Ref: MAINTENANCE MANUAL X-7525
Section: 9 - STEERING
Pages: 9-5 to 9-7 - GENERAL INFORMATION
These pages describe in depth how the power steering pump operates and
regulates the output pressure.
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Thanks Rob. If I'm reading it right, the pressure relief system is indeed inside the reservoir. So with the proper part xref, the new pump+reservoir assembly should be similarly equipped, and the stiffness of the relief spring should also be similar...right?
I didn't even consider scavenging parts from the original failed assembly. Was that a big mistake?
Thanks!
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138247 is a reply to message #138203] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 10:30 |
mlincoln
Messages: 107
Registered: August 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I had a very similar problem in the power steering rack of a 1995 Porsche
993 C4. If I recall correctly, the root cause was an internal (to the PS
pump) filter that had gotten clogged from debris when the first PS rack went
bad (little bits of rubber seals, etc). Each subsequent PS rack failed
after perhaps 20 miles as a consequence of the obstruction.
It took a while to figure this all out. The Porsche dealer tried to say
there was nothing wrong ('Das ist part of der German fahrvergnugen, ze firm
steering'). However I complained very steadily ('Das ist nicht
fahrvergnugen!'), and so after four or five PS rack replacements a Porsche
factory mechanic was eventually sent from Atlanta to Salt Lake City to
figure out what was wrong. He cut open the PS pump to demonstrate a clogged
(internal, otherwise inaccessible and un-viewable) filter. While the dealer
had replaced the PS pump once before, on about the third PS rack replacement
in the first month, they had neglected to flush out all the lines.
Apparently the new pump's filter had re-clogged in short order because of
assorted trash in the lines. The factory mechanic said that because the
filter also clogged up, and because there was assorted trash remaining in
the lines, I would continue to kill PS racks unless proper measures were
taken.
The factory mechanic's proper measures were to flush all the little bits of
blown PS rack seal debris out of the system and lines, replace the pump, and
install the (sixth and final) PS rack. Its been good for ten years so far.
Luckily I only ever had to pay for the one rack (ca. $1500!).
So perhaps you should replace this GMC system filter and thoroughly flush
out the lines.
Mike Lincoln
1978 Coachman Royale CK
1995 Porsche 993 C4
1987 Vanagon Syncro Camper
2009 GMC Acadia
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:29 PM, mike stewart <klassickampers@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> have you removed the original filter in the wiper motor...they get
> contaiminated and restrict return fluid........this original filter WILL
> blow your pump, hoses and steering gearbox...
> --
> mike stewart,
> greer,s.c.
>
> 1973 GMC 26' Canyonlands
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Michael J. Lincoln MD
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138253 is a reply to message #138247] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 10:52 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Anytime a hydraulic failure occours, be it automatic transmission,
windshield wipers, power steering, brakes, etc., the system, including the
filters and coolers, should always be flushed completely. In the case of an
automatic transmission, if you replace just the transmission and not the
torque converter and you fail to flush the old one out along with the cooler
lines and cooler, expect to have another transmission failure in a short
time. Most, if not all gurantees are null and void if this is not done. Most
automatic transmission repair facilities have a converter flushing machine
or send your converter out to be flushed. No hydraulic system, including an
engine oiling system, will tolerate dirt in the oil. Once the dirt bypasses
the filters and circulates through the bearings, kiss your rebuild goodbye
along with your heard earned money. Dropping the pan on your transmission,
replacing the filter, O rings, and pan gasket without cleaning the converter
only replaces about half of the ATF in your transmission. The rest is
lurking in the torque converter along with the metal shavings and clutch
material that has found its way there. Clean filter, reduce the fluid
restriction from the old plugged one, and the increased fluid flow will
chase that crud out of the converter into your valve body and bearings. Just
what happens. Count on it. AAmco does.<Grin>
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 8:30 AM, michael lincoln <mlincoln1@gmail.com>wrote:
> I had a very similar problem in the power steering rack of a 1995 Porsche
> 993 C4. If I recall correctly, the root cause was an internal (to the PS
> pump) filter that had gotten clogged from debris when the first PS rack
> went
> bad (little bits of rubber seals, etc). Each subsequent PS rack failed
> after perhaps 20 miles as a consequence of the obstruction.
>
> It took a while to figure this all out. The Porsche dealer tried to say
> there was nothing wrong ('Das ist part of der German fahrvergnugen, ze firm
> steering'). However I complained very steadily ('Das ist nicht
> fahrvergnugen!'), and so after four or five PS rack replacements a Porsche
> factory mechanic was eventually sent from Atlanta to Salt Lake City to
> figure out what was wrong. He cut open the PS pump to demonstrate a
> clogged
> (internal, otherwise inaccessible and un-viewable) filter. While the
> dealer
> had replaced the PS pump once before, on about the third PS rack
> replacement
> in the first month, they had neglected to flush out all the lines.
> Apparently the new pump's filter had re-clogged in short order because of
> assorted trash in the lines. The factory mechanic said that because the
> filter also clogged up, and because there was assorted trash remaining in
> the lines, I would continue to kill PS racks unless proper measures were
> taken.
>
> The factory mechanic's proper measures were to flush all the little bits of
> blown PS rack seal debris out of the system and lines, replace the pump,
> and
> install the (sixth and final) PS rack. Its been good for ten years so far.
> Luckily I only ever had to pay for the one rack (ca. $1500!).
>
> So perhaps you should replace this GMC system filter and thoroughly flush
> out the lines.
>
> Mike Lincoln
> 1978 Coachman Royale CK
> 1995 Porsche 993 C4
> 1987 Vanagon Syncro Camper
> 2009 GMC Acadia
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:29 PM, mike stewart <klassickampers@hotmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > have you removed the original filter in the wiper motor...they get
> > contaiminated and restrict return fluid........this original filter WILL
> > blow your pump, hoses and steering gearbox...
> > --
> > mike stewart,
> > greer,s.c.
> >
> > 1973 GMC 26' Canyonlands
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael J. Lincoln MD
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138316 is a reply to message #138236] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 19:28 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Andrew,
Yes, it appears that the pressure control function is in the power steering
pump.
Yes, if you replaced it with the same part number it should be the same.
Note that the operative word in that sentence is "should!"
I can't answer the third question.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew
Thanks Rob. If I'm reading it right, the pressure relief system is indeed
inside the reservoir. So with the proper part xref, the new pump+reservoir
assembly should be similarly equipped, and the stiffness of the relief
spring should also be similar...right?
I didn't even consider scavenging parts from the original failed assembly.
Was that a big mistake?
Thanks!
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138317 is a reply to message #138236] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 19:38 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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quote]
Thanks Rob. If I'm reading it right, the pressure relief system is indeed inside the reservoir. So with the proper part xref, the new pump+reservoir assembly should be similarly equipped, and the stiffness of the relief spring should also be similar...right?
I didn't even consider scavenging parts from the original failed assembly. Was that a big mistake?
Thanks![/quote]
Sir: if you got the pump with the reservoir on it you should be OK since the regulator is behind the adapter and it must be removed to swap reservoirs. If the original reservoir was used you would have to change the adapter and possibly dropped a spring out? Just guessing on that.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138325 is a reply to message #138322] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 20:29 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
Think about that proposition: The reason for removing it would be that it's
clogged. With what? What's going to catch that stuff if it's removed?
Two alternatives:
1. Remove the filter, back flush it with solvent, dry it, and re-install
it.
2. Remove the filter, punch out the filter screen, re-install it, and add
an in-line filter.
JWID. (Well, not really -- I designed and built and installed a electric
wiper motor kt. I now sell them.) :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:17 PM, brian <chasingsummer@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> the filter at wipers,
> did i understand correctly and that it should just be removed?
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138338 is a reply to message #138325] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 21:09 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 10 August 2011 20:29 |
Two alternatives:
1. Remove the filter, back flush it with solvent, dry it, and re-install
it.
2. Remove the filter, punch out the filter screen, re-install it, and add
an in-line filter.
JWID. (Well, not really -- I designed and built and installed a electric
wiper motor kt. I now sell them.) 
|
With the wipers removed from the hydraulic system, would you still want an inline filter?
Epilogue to my pressure problems, hopefully: the wiper manifold is now bypassed and the system is holding pressure. Ironically, I think I preferred the driveability without power steering -- it feels very sensitive now, but hopefully I'll get used to it again. We will be back on the road soon, and we'll see if it all stays together...!
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Three PS pumps and three steering boxes/seals later... [message #138347 is a reply to message #138338] |
Wed, 10 August 2011 21:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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If I'd had as much trouble with the PS as you have, I'd definitely want an
inline filter to collect all the junk that may be running around inside the
pump and the steering box. Those recirculating ball bearings and hydraulic
valves don't like debris a-tall.
Good luck!
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Andrew <reynhout@quesera.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 10 August 2011 20:29
> > Two alternatives:
> >
> > 1. Remove the filter, back flush it with solvent, dry it, and re-install
> > it.
> >
> > 2. Remove the filter, punch out the filter screen, re-install it, and
> add
> > an in-line filter.
> >
> > JWID. (Well, not really -- I designed and built and installed a electric
> > wiper motor kt. I now sell them.) :)
>
>
> With the wipers removed from the hydraulic system, would you still want an
> inline filter?
>
> Epilogue to my pressure problems, hopefully: the wiper manifold is now
> bypassed and the system is holding pressure. Ironically, I think I preferred
> the driveability without power steering -- it feels very sensitive now, but
> hopefully I'll get used to it again. We will be back on the road soon, and
> we'll see if it all stays together...!
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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