Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Quadrajet problems
| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137761 is a reply to message #137685] |
Sat, 06 August 2011 13:20   |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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See if the coil or coil wire is breaking down.
--johnny
--- On Sat, 8/6/11, Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Saturday, August 6, 2011, 3:07 AM
Ray Erspamer wrote on Fri, 05 August 2011 22:48
> Plugged fuel pickups in the tank?? I recently had a stalling problem and when
> I disconnected the gas lines behind the selector valve and blew them out, it ran
> great.
>
> Ray
Carb always has plenty of fuel while exhibiting this problem. Fuel pump providing adequate pressure too.
--
1978 Eleganza II
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137822 is a reply to message #137761] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 03:17 |
Les
Messages: 29
Registered: March 2009
Location: Meredith NH
Karma: 0
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Just went through this, cost me 2 days at Jim B's resort, finally ripped out and replaced everything from tank to carb, was sucking air from somewhere,i believe it was the switching valve, try disconnecting gas line at the switching valve on the carb side, splice in a section of gas line and draw from a gas can, this will at least eliminate everything on the tank side of the valve , JWID, good luck,
Les Simpson
76 glenbrook
Meredith, NH
> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 11:20:55 -0700
> From: jhbridges@ymail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
>
> See if the coil or coil wire is breaking down.
>
> --johnny
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/6/11, Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Saturday, August 6, 2011, 3:07 AM
>
>
>
>
> Ray Erspamer wrote on Fri, 05 August 2011 22:48
> > Plugged fuel pickups in the tank?? I recently had a stalling problem and when
> > I disconnected the gas lines behind the selector valve and blew them out, it ran
> > great.
> >
> > Ray
>
> Carb always has plenty of fuel while exhibiting this problem. Fuel pump providing adequate pressure too.
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
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Les & Sue Simpson
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1976 X-Glenbrook
2000 Heritage Softail
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137835 is a reply to message #137822] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 07:46 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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I had a problem with a broken wire between the HEI pickup coil and the module on the 75 Vette (not a GMC but the same sorta HEI). These wires flex with the vac advance. It would run fine until the advance plate moved and then it would run flaky. At idle pull the vac lead off the distributor and see if that causes your problem. It's not likely but very easy and quick to check. Also check it by pulling a vacuum on the vac advance can (in case your vac advance is to a ported carb orifice.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137844 is a reply to message #137822] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 08:55 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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| Les wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 04:17 |
Just went through this, cost me 2 days at Jim B's resort, finally ripped out and replaced everything from tank to carb, was sucking air from somewhere,i believe it was the switching valve, try disconnecting gas line at the switching valve on the carb side, splice in a section of gas line and draw from a gas can, this will at least eliminate everything on the tank side of the valve , JWID, good luck,
Les Simpson
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Switching valve? I have no idea what that is!
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137845 is a reply to message #137835] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 08:58 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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| midlf wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:46 |
I had a problem with a broken wire between the HEI pickup coil and the module on the 75 Vette (not a GMC but the same sorta HEI). These wires flex with the vac advance. It would run fine until the advance plate moved and then it would run flaky. At idle pull the vac lead off the distributor and see if that causes your problem. It's not likely but very easy and quick to check. Also check it by pulling a vacuum on the vac advance can (in case your vac advance is to a ported carb orifice.
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It's not a miss, it's a lean mixture or improper timing issue. I haven't found the full specs for ignition timing yet, at least not for the GMC 403. I can only find the initial setting (18*), but not degrees advance mechanical or vacuum and at what RPM.
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137846 is a reply to message #137845] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 09:04 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Link to GMC western states and the advance curve..
are you at 18 degree advance at idle?
Dennis
| kwharland wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:58 |
| midlf wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:46 |
I had a problem with a broken wire between the HEI pickup coil and the module on the 75 Vette (not a GMC but the same sorta HEI). These wires flex with the vac advance. It would run fine until the advance plate moved and then it would run flaky. At idle pull the vac lead off the distributor and see if that causes your problem. It's not likely but very easy and quick to check. Also check it by pulling a vacuum on the vac advance can (in case your vac advance is to a ported carb orifice.
|
It's not a miss, it's a lean mixture or improper timing issue. I haven't found the full specs for ignition timing yet, at least not for the GMC 403. I can only find the initial setting (18*), but not degrees advance mechanical or vacuum and at what RPM.
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137847 is a reply to message #137846] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 09:06 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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The forum send timed out... anyway here is the link..
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/ignition/ignition.html
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com>
To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:04 am
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
Ken,
Link to GMC western states and the advance curve..
re you at 18 degree advance at idle?
Dennis
kwharland wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:58
midlf wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:46
> I had a problem with a broken wire between the HEI pickup coil and the
odule on the 75 Vette (not a GMC but the same sorta HEI). These wires flex
ith the vac advance. It would run fine until the advance plate moved and then
t would run flaky. At idle pull the vac lead off the distributor and see if
hat causes your problem. It's not likely but very easy and quick to check.
lso check it by pulling a vacuum on the vac advance can (in case your vac
dvance is to a ported carb orifice.
It's not a miss, it's a lean mixture or improper timing issue. I haven't found
he full specs for ignition timing yet, at least not for the GMC 403. I can
nly find the initial setting (18*), but not degrees advance mechanical or
acuum and at what RPM.
-
ennis S
3 Painted Desert 230
ermantown, TN
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137848 is a reply to message #137845] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 09:14 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Just looked at my MM -- HEI distributor, idle 1100 rpm, advance 8 degrees, with vacuum ports on carb plugged. I think some run a little more -- but 18 seems high.
Dennis
| kwharland wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:58 |
| midlf wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 08:46 |
I had a problem with a broken wire between the HEI pickup coil and the module on the 75 Vette (not a GMC but the same sorta HEI). These wires flex with the vac advance. It would run fine until the advance plate moved and then it would run flaky. At idle pull the vac lead off the distributor and see if that causes your problem. It's not likely but very easy and quick to check. Also check it by pulling a vacuum on the vac advance can (in case your vac advance is to a ported carb orifice.
|
It's not a miss, it's a lean mixture or improper timing issue. I haven't found the full specs for ignition timing yet, at least not for the GMC 403. I can only find the initial setting (18*), but not degrees advance mechanical or vacuum and at what RPM.
|
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137851 is a reply to message #137844] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 09:24 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Ken, on the switching valve, I believe that the poster was referring to the
fuel tank selector valve located on the Drivers side frame rail ahead of the
fuel tanks.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Les wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 04:17
> > Just went through this, cost me 2 days at Jim B's resort, finally ripped
> out and replaced everything from tank to carb, was sucking air from
> somewhere,i believe it was the switching valve, try disconnecting gas line
> at the switching valve on the carb side, splice in a section of gas line and
> draw from a gas can, this will at least eliminate everything on the tank
> side of the valve , JWID, good luck,
> >
> > Les Simpson
>
> Switching valve? I have no idea what that is!
>
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137859 is a reply to message #137847] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 10:01 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, that's what I was looking for. And at a glance it confirms my suspicion that I'm not getting the advance I should. And yes, my initial setting is 18*...thought I said that earlier.
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137861 is a reply to message #137851] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 10:06 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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| James Hupy wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 10:24 |
Ken, on the switching valve, I believe that the poster was referring to the
fuel tank selector valve located on the Drivers side frame rail ahead of the
fuel tanks.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
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Ahhh, thanks Jim. Wasn't thinking about the dual tanks.
I'm reasonably confident I don't have a fuel delivery problem. Because of the hard line from the pump, it's difficult to plumb in a pressure gauge to confirm, but every time I've pulled the carb, there's residual pressure at the inlet fitting and the float bowl is always full.
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137877 is a reply to message #137859] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 12:04 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Bump it back to 8 degs as a starting point, you can go as far as 12
degs but if advanced too far it will just not run, no matter what you
doing with fuel.
JR Wright
GMC GreatLaker
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Aug 7, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Ken Harland wrote:
>
>
> Dennis S wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 10:06
>> The forum send timed out... anyway here is the link..
>>
>> http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/ignition/ignition.html
>>
>>
>> Dennis
>
> Thanks, that's what I was looking for. And at a glance it confirms
> my suspicion that I'm not getting the advance I should. And yes, my
> initial setting is 18*...thought I said that earlier.
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137881 is a reply to message #137822] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 12:37 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Makes sense, my Onan ran perfect until last spring, would start and then run
like crap. ONE hose fitting was SLIGHTLY loose and letting in air. I put in a
new hose and tightened the clamps, ran like a charm.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Lester Simpson <lesfromnh@live.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sun, August 7, 2011 3:17:46 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
Just went through this, cost me 2 days at Jim B's resort, finally ripped out and
replaced everything from tank to carb, was sucking air from somewhere,i believe
it was the switching valve, try disconnecting gas line at the switching valve on
the carb side, splice in a section of gas line and draw from a gas can, this
will at least eliminate everything on the tank side of the valve , JWID, good
luck,
Les Simpson
76 glenbrook
Meredith, NH
> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 11:20:55 -0700
> From: jhbridges@ymail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
>
> See if the coil or coil wire is breaking down.
>
> --johnny
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/6/11, Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ken Harland <kwharland@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Saturday, August 6, 2011, 3:07 AM
>
>
>
>
> Ray Erspamer wrote on Fri, 05 August 2011 22:48
> > Plugged fuel pickups in the tank?? I recently had a stalling problem and
>when
>
> > I disconnected the gas lines behind the selector valve and blew them out, it
>ran
>
> > great.
> >
> > Ray
>
> Carb always has plenty of fuel while exhibiting this problem. Fuel pump
>providing adequate pressure too.
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137882 is a reply to message #137835] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 12:39 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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This was a popular problem on many GM vehicles, the flexing wire from the vac
advance, good place to look.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sun, August 7, 2011 7:46:40 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems
I had a problem with a broken wire between the HEI pickup coil and the module on
the 75 Vette (not a GMC but the same sorta HEI). These wires flex with the vac
advance. It would run fine until the advance plate moved and then it would run
flaky. At idle pull the vac lead off the distributor and see if that causes
your problem. It's not likely but very easy and quick to check. Also check it
by pulling a vacuum on the vac advance can (in case your vac advance is to a
ported carb orifice.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137883 is a reply to message #137877] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 12:41 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| powerjon wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 13:04 |
Bump it back to 8 degs as a starting point, you can go as far as 12
degs but if advanced too far it will just not run, no matter what you
doing with fuel.
JR Wright
|
It's at 8 now w/o vac adv, 18 with. Although I checked the weights for free travel, I need to recheck to find out why I'm not getting full advance. Will have to wait until tomorrow, on duty today.
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: Quadrajet problems [message #137915 is a reply to message #137646] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 17:21 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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You should be able to with the choke wide open look down the primaries and see if you are getting fuel delivery at like 1/4 throttle. I'm saying see if lack of fuel delivery corresponds with the flat spot. If you floor it and get into secondary fuel delivery does it get better? Check the gaskets kit to make sure that both line up with your cast parts as a visual as there were different versions over the years and GM division lines. Sounds like the carb (not ignition) has been proven as the issue as you can choke it to get it to run. Even with some blocked fuel delivery to the carb it should still run momentarily off the bowl and then go flat.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Quadrajet problems [message #137916 is a reply to message #137915] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 17:35 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Fuel delivery is fine, no issues there. Right now I think I have a mechanical advance issue, I'm clearly not getting full advance. Closing the choke just enrichens the mixture which reduces the need for proper advance.
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137919 is a reply to message #137859] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 17:48 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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18 degrees at an idle with the vacuum hose plugged is awfully high. Everything I have seen lists the static timing at 8 to 12 degrees based on the what distributor have. I believe Dick Paterson says to use 12 degrees BTDC on his distributors. I have mine set to 14. Anything more that that and it pings badly.
If 18 degrees static timing is working for you then I suggest that either the vacuum advance or the mechanical advance has a problem.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #137923 is a reply to message #137919] |
Sun, 07 August 2011 18:05 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 18:48 |
18 degrees at an idle with the vacuum hose plugged is awfully high. Everything I have seen lists the static timing at 8 to 12 degrees based on the what distributor have. I believe Dick Paterson says to use 12 degrees BTDC on his distributors. I have mine set to 14. Anything more that that and it pings badly.
If 18 degrees static timing is working for you then I suggest that either the vacuum advance or the mechanical advance has a problem.
|
I posted just above that it's 8 without vac adv, 18 with. At that I should be getting 36 total and I'm not.
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Quadrajet problems [message #138196 is a reply to message #137923] |
Tue, 09 August 2011 17:04 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I went ahead and tested the fuel selector solenoid and the fuel pump and both check out well.
What I've done most recently is confirm that the vacuum and mechanical advances are both operating within spec, then I adjusted the initial from 8 to 12 degree BTDC. Unfortunately that did not produce the desired effect.
I believe I mentioned earlier that I had mistakenly turned the adjustment for the metering rods when first cleaning the carb. After much searching I found that the initial setting was supposed to be 2 fulls turns out. I had it at 3.5 turns but have no idea how far out then back in I turned in during my rebuild. So I set it at 2 and experimented from there, going out to a maximum of 4 and down to zero. I couldn't detect any change through that range and never got rid of the flat spot.
So today I threw caution to the wind and went out six full turns and took it out for a drive. I can't say the flat spot is gone but it's one heck of a lot better! I think I went too far as I can sense it loading up at idle. At some point I'm going to measure the rods and jets to see if they are actually correct for this motor but my next step is going to be replacing all the vacuum hoses. Everything points to the mixture being too lean just off idle and some of those hoses are in poor shape.
1978 Eleganza II
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