Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #351663 is a reply to message #138132] |
Fri, 17 January 2020 22:32   |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We have had good result by pulling the fuel hose straight out side the
frame and connect to the selector valve and a large filter canister then a
rotary vain pump. Not as effective as in tank, but less labor cost.
This works well for carburetor and EFI .
Whenever a pump need to pull/draw volatile fluid, it can induce a column of
vapor.
People that have been misled to believe Fuel injection will solve their
vapor lock issue find it does not.
Having an aux. pump at the tank and away from the heat between the frame
does wonders.
We have been using this concept since 1985 and has worked on my Twin Turbo
EFI as well as my 403 with carb.
On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 3:06 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Larry
> An electric fuel pump will help not to have vapor lock but don’t think you
> never will.
> Especially at high elevations on hot days.
> The only way I have finally eliminated vapor lock was a few years ago when
> I installed in-tank fuel pumps.
> Emery Stora
>
>> On Jan 17, 2020, at 3:48 PM, Larry Davick via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> One of the first things I asked Jim K to do to was to install an
> electric fuel pump. I should have replaced the carburetor too as we were
> always
>> chasing raw gas stink. I've fixed that with the fuel injection. We
> never had vapor lock but I wanted the electric pump so that we'd never have
> vapor
>> lock!
>> --
>> Larry Davick
>> A Mystery Machine
>> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
>> Fremont, Ca
>> Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #351669 is a reply to message #138132] |
Sat, 18 January 2020 12:55 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I feel that most, if not all, of the "vapor lock" issues that we experience
today are NOT ANYTHING WRONG WITH OUR COACHES.
So trying to repair something that is not the root cause of the problem is
a fools errand at best.
In 1957, after I joined the National Guard, completed my basic
training at Fort Lewis, and was attending my first ANACTD UTRA at Yakima
Firing Center in Central Washington. Hotter than the hinges of hades, after
a day on the live fire range, we were cleaning up the 90 mm guns on our
tanks. A 3 striper sent me to the other end of the huge asphalt paved motor
pool for a bore brush with a left handed twist to clean the bore rifling in
our gun. When I got to the other end of the motor pool, I was told that
another company was using it, and I should go to their HQ and see if they
were done with it.
Well, some of you all have already figured this one out. Classic
okey-dokey. They ran my butt all over that 120° black asphalt parking lot,
looking for something that was non-existent. They all had a great laugh at
my expense.
BUT, I NEVER FORGOT THAT LESSON. I grew up a lot that summer. Learned
a bit, too.
DON'T TRY TO FIX NON-EXISTENT PROBLEMS.
Today's gasolines are not blended with the correct viscosity for a
Carburetor. They are formulated to flow through tiny, tiny openings in fuel
injection nozzles at high pressures. They, by design, are much more
volatile than yesterday's gasoline were. Hence, the lower vapor point
index, (they evaporate at much lower temps and pressures).
So, in-tank pumps that push the fuel instead of suck it, are a help.
So is re-routing the the fuel lines to cooler location.
But there is no absolute cure for reformulated fuels. Throw in the
winter/summer blends, a bit of condensed water vapor, alcohol separation,
etc. and your coach will exhibit tendencies that resemble vapour lock. High
temperatures and elevation exaggerates the problem.
Another okey-doke. This one from the E.P.A. They are planning to up
the amount of alcohol blended into the fuel to 15% instead of 10%.
They want you to get rid of gasoline dependent vehicles, and go to electric
vehicles. Guess what? Sale of Electric Vehicles dropped by 7% in 2019.
People that still can think for themselves, aren't buying them. East of the
Rockies, the majority of electricity is produced by fossil fuels and
nuclear energy. You plug in your EV, and you burn up some dinosaurs to
charge it. Quit blowing smoke in my face and telling me that it is good for
me.
RANT OFF.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 10:05 AM Fred Hudspeth via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> 'Agree with Emery's experience re in-tank pumps/EFI. No vapor lock at 107F
> ambient (but at only 1500' altitude) - highest temp encountered thus far
> since installation. 'Expect similar performance at 12K' elevation but with
> lower ambient temp...
>
> Fred Hudspeth
>
>
> Fred Hudspeth
> 1978 Royale (TZE 368V101335) - Tyler, TX
> 1982 Airstream Excella (motorhome) - Cooper Landing, Alaska
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 16:05:19 -0700
> From: Emery Stora
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Larry
> An electric fuel pump will help not to have vapor lock but don?t think you
> never will.
> Especially at high elevations on hot days.
> The only way I have finally eliminated vapor lock was a few years ago when
> I
> installed in-tank fuel pumps.
> Emery Stora
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #351678 is a reply to message #351669] |
Sun, 19 January 2020 17:47 |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Three points of clarification regarding the Carter electric fuel pump(s)
1: Keep the solenoid tank selector valve and use one pump OR two pumps
and eliminate the selector valve?
2: If the two pump option is better, do these pumps have internal check
valves so they can be teed into the same line to the carburetor?
and finally (for now)
3: Where should a fuel filter go in this arrangement? Near the tanks or
nearer the carburetor?
Thanks in advance,
Stu
There seems to be a disconnect between the GMCforum and the email list.
Some messages show up here and not there, and vice versa. I suspect a
computer is involved.
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Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #351682 is a reply to message #351678] |
Mon, 20 January 2020 04:19 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Stu,
The selector valve will very likely suffer "ethanol disease" eventually,
preventing tank selection. It may even fail between tanks and prevent
drawing from either. So why not eliminate that possibility now with two
pumps, preventing that failure and providing pump redundancy. The second
pump should cost little more than a replacement selector.
The Carter 4070 does not require check valves, but I installed them anyway,
just in case I ever have to do a change to some kind that does -- I won't
have to hunt/order check valves at an inconvenient time.
'Most all electric pumps require filters on the input side to protect their
warranty.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 6:48 PM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Three points of clarification regarding the Carter electric fuel pump(s)
>
> 1: Keep the solenoid tank selector valve and use one pump OR two pumps
> and eliminate the selector valve?
>
> 2: If the two pump option is better, do these pumps have internal check
> valves so they can be teed into the same line to the carburetor?
>
> and finally (for now)
>
> 3: Where should a fuel filter go in this arrangement? Near the tanks or
> nearer the carburetor?
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Stu
>
> There seems to be a disconnect between the GMCforum and the email list.
> Some messages show up here and not there, and vice versa. I suspect a
> computer is involved.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #351684 is a reply to message #351682] |
Mon, 20 January 2020 08:25 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Since most of the pumps are rotary , filters are recommended to prevent
excess wear.
Keep in mind, the air that displaces the space as fuel is used is never
filtered, so particulets enter the tank and that is what ends up wearing
the vains in the pump.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 2:21 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Stu,
>
> The selector valve will very likely suffer "ethanol disease" eventually,
> preventing tank selection. It may even fail between tanks and prevent
> drawing from either. So why not eliminate that possibility now with two
> pumps, preventing that failure and providing pump redundancy. The second
> pump should cost little more than a replacement selector.
>
> The Carter 4070 does not require check valves, but I installed them anyway,
> just in case I ever have to do a change to some kind that does -- I won't
> have to hunt/order check valves at an inconvenient time.
>
> 'Most all electric pumps require filters on the input side to protect their
> warranty.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 6:48 PM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Three points of clarification regarding the Carter electric fuel pump(s)
>>
>> 1: Keep the solenoid tank selector valve and use one pump OR two pumps
>> and eliminate the selector valve?
>>
>> 2: If the two pump option is better, do these pumps have internal check
>> valves so they can be teed into the same line to the carburetor?
>>
>> and finally (for now)
>>
>> 3: Where should a fuel filter go in this arrangement? Near the tanks or
>> nearer the carburetor?
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Stu
>>
>> There seems to be a disconnect between the GMCforum and the email list.
>> Some messages show up here and not there, and vice versa. I suspect a
>> computer is involved.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #356543 is a reply to message #138132] |
Wed, 08 July 2020 15:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Ever body but me buys the Carter pumps. I bought a pair of Mr Gasket pumps for the 23' because Advance had them and they're a bit less expensive and they note that they have check valves and I had excellent luck with the diesel version. You could ask Mike Briere if they still are there and working, they did fine all the time I had the coach. Now what JimH has to say is correct, and you can drop a GMC Unit and up and put a throttle body injection system on the coach. However, a couple of pumps in back will keep the fuel from boiling to vapor in the August Southeast (GA FL AL) heat without trouble. It will atomize quite well through a varying orifice at 10 PSI MAP and up even though that ain't what it's blended for. You can buy 'boat gas' pretty much anywhere except the Left Coast if you look for it. pure-gas.org will save some looking. I ran the 23' on boat gas in the summer and whatever came out of the pump in winter without problems. The current 26' has an MSD Atomic injection setup which seems perfectly happy with whatever I pour down it. At the last fill before parking for more than a week or two I put boat gas in because I never know how long it's gonna sit and I don't want alcohol laced fuel to separate and corrode stuff. This worked well for me and works well for me. Your mileage will likely vary substantially.
==johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Wed, 08 July 2020 15:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric Fuel Pump [message #356551 is a reply to message #356529] |
Wed, 08 July 2020 15:47 |
MikeB
Messages: 133
Registered: December 2018
Location: South Bama
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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BobDunahugh wrote on Wed, 08 July 2020 10:07The GM Howell EFI shuts the pump off if the engine stops running. I'm ASSUMING that all other EFI's do the same?
Bob Dunahugh
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Bob
How do you drain your tanks for storage? Do you have a separate power source to your pumps?
M Beam
75’ Avion
TBI EBL , 3.70 LSD and other stuff
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #356552 is a reply to message #356543] |
Wed, 08 July 2020 15:53 |
MikeB
Messages: 133
Registered: December 2018
Location: South Bama
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Watched the Road Kill guys install IIRC an MSD Atomic or Holly injection system and they used a 100 micron filter at the electric pumpS “in” and 10 micron at the pumps “out” port. It was a Holly electric pump by the way.
M Beam
75’ Avion
TBI EBL , 3.70 LSD and other stuff
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
[Updated on: Wed, 08 July 2020 15:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Electric fuel pump [message #356553 is a reply to message #138132] |
Wed, 08 July 2020 16:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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That's the setup mine has. Still using the selector in front of the high pressure pump, one of the upcoming mods will be to run the pump power through a relay run by that switch and add another pump and inlet filter. I need to have a spare on hand, and I'd just as soon have it plumbed in as to have it in the spares compartment.
-johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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