Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Carb solutions
| Carb solutions [message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 18:21  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Ok, I got another phone call from my mechanic. He said he had replaced the hard fuel line up to the carb and now he believes he has stripped out the connection on the front of the carb, so now we have a fuel leak on that connection. He says he can't tap it out...I've been told different by others if he is able to use a bottom tap. Anyhow he has priced a new Quad carb, a little pricey. 800-1200 dollars for the carb...say what!!
He says if he could get a used Quad that he could transfer the parts over to the new (used) carb. My other source of information (80 miles away), is saying get rid of the Quad and go to a new Edlebrock high temp carb replacement, to which he has done on many of old Quad carbed motorhomes. This guy use to work on motorhomes in Colorado and had did upgrades to these old motorhomes all the time in Colorado. Some guidance for someone who is getting a little frustrated with this situation, since I have not yet got to use this coach this year. This mechanic started working on this motorcoach back in March and I'm still getting these kind of calls from him.
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137373 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 18:49  |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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$800-$1200 is a quote from a guy who has no idea what he's doing. If you have a true motorhome carb, your best bet is to send it to Patterson and see what he can do with it. If it's a good core, he'll send you a new one for way less than you are being quoted. If it is no good, you still have a few options.
1) Call around all our GMC providers looking for a good core. It took me a while, but I finally got a good core from one of our suppliers after some begging and it only cost $200. Then have it rebuilt by Patterson, put it back on, and for less than $600 you have the best carb possible for your coach.
2) Have a decent mechanic build you a frankenstein from a 454 carb and your current carb. Yeah, it's not perfect and it might cost you a little bit of mileage and power, but you can have a perfectly serviceable carb that fits under the existing doghouse, and it'll probably cost you less $300.
My carb got warped from a bad rebuild and I used option 2 for a couple years before making option 1 work out. Having the real carb is best, but the frankenstein was perfectly serviceable, and that included towing a 3100 lb towed through the Smoky Mtns...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137375 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 18:52 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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One thing I forgot to mention, he may not have stripped your carb either. If you have the metal fuel line from pump to carb, they can be a bit finnicky to get on straight. He may just not be getting the threads lined up right and the line may need to be bent a bit to get a better connection. I had this problem when I first replaced the PO's idiotic soft line over the engine with a metal line, and I thought I had a major problem. Jeff at Alex Sirum showed me that I just didn't have the angle right.
If he did strip the connection it means he doesn't know what he's doing. Everyone who works on these machines knows that you have to be careful when connecting that area and there is no excuse for a competent mechanic to have done that kind of damage.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Carb solutions [message #137376 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 18:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Tom,
You need a new mechanic who's less ham-fisted. One whom you can trust
to do a repair using one of these:
"There are several "fixes" available in the aftermarket: New,
oversized, self-tapping fuel filter inserts; new fuel filter inserts
that seal with O-rings; and Heli-Coil rethreading kits. In nearly all
cases, the carburetor will require disassembly and internal cleaning
of the aluminum thread residue, especially up to and including the
needle and seat, (needle valve), to prevent flooding."
That quotation is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrajet
A few people are enthusiastic about Edelbrock or other replacement
carbs. Our totally reliable Olds guru, Dick Paterson, is NOT.
Oh, and your "mechanics" idea of cobbling together a motorhome carb
from other Qjet parts is NOT a good one.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:21 PM, tom geiger <tgeiger@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, I got another phone call from my mechanic. He said he had replaced the hard fuel line up to the carb and now he believes he has stripped out the connection on the front of the carb, so now we have a fuel leak on that connection. He says he can't tap it out...I've been told different by others if he is able to use a bottom tap. Anyhow he has priced a new Quad carb, a little pricey. 800-1200 dollars for the carb...say what!!
> He says if he could get a used Quad that he could transfer the parts over to the new (used) carb. My other source of information (80 miles away), is saying get rid of the Quad and go to a new Edlebrock high temp carb replacement, to which he has done on many of old Quad carbed motorhomes. This guy use to work on motorhomes in Colorado and had did upgrades to these old motorhomes all the time in Colorado. Some guidance for someone who is getting a little frustrated with this situation, since I have not yet got to use this coach this year. This mechanic started working on this motorcoach back in March and I'm still getting these kind of calls from him.
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137377 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 19:03 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| tgeiger wrote on Wed, 03 August 2011 19:21 |
Ok, I got another phone call from my mechanic. He said he had replaced the hard fuel line up to the carb and now he believes he has stripped out the connection on the front of the carb, so now we have a fuel leak on that connection. He says he can't tap it out...I've been told different by others if he is able to use a bottom tap. Anyhow he has priced a new Quad carb, a little pricey. 800-1200 dollars for the carb...say what!!
He says if he could get a used Quad that he could transfer the parts over to the new (used) carb. My other source of information (80 miles away), is saying get rid of the Quad and go to a new Edlebrock high temp carb replacement, to which he has done on many of old Quad carbed motorhomes. This guy use to work on motorhomes in Colorado and had did upgrades to these old motorhomes all the time in Colorado. Some guidance for someone who is getting a little frustrated with this situation, since I have not yet got to use this coach this year. This mechanic started working on this motorcoach back in March and I'm still getting these kind of calls from him.
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Sir: there is a carb on the swap meet page.
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=18191&start=0&rid=975
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137381 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 20:14 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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hold the phone.... did he strip out the body of the carb or the front extension that accepts the fuel line and filter. One is bad, one not so bad. First... always start by hand and second always use flair nut wrenches. You need to hold the opposing hex to not over torque what you are tightening.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137385 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 20:29 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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I'm not sure of what he has done to be honest. All he told me was he is seeing a leak, (a small one) from the connection of the filter to the carb. It might very well be a alignment issue as someone has suggested. At least that's my optimism showing through again. Sorry for the mis-understanding, my mechanic wasn't suggesting I spend 800-1200 on the carb, that was the quotes he got from the local parts store I believe, to which I question. He didn't see that as a option as well, he was suggesting getting another one from the junk yard and useing it. But as I gather, they wouldn't be the same carb as I have on there now, correct? This carb was for especially for the motorhome?
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
[Updated on: Wed, 03 August 2011 20:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137389 is a reply to message #137367] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 20:45 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I'm a little confused. The fuel line does not go into the front of the carb. It goes into an adapter that holds a fuel filter. If that is what is stripped then just get another adapter. They come in 2 sizes - short and long. You need the most common long one.
It sounds like you need a different mechanic.
If he can not get the threads lined up, remove the 4 bolts holding down the carb so the carb can move around. Then attach the fuel line. Leave the line 1/2 turn loose and remount the carb. Then tighten the line the final 1/2 turn.
If you do need a replacement carb, get a good core and send it or send your core to Dick Paterson for rebuild. You will receive a GMC carb rebuilt to GMC specs.
http://www.springfield-ignition.com/springfield.html
I would not use a NON-GMC quadrajet carb. Your fuel mileage and performance will suffer.
Did I say, Find a different mechanic.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137394 is a reply to message #137385] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 21:39 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| tgeiger wrote on Wed, 03 August 2011 21:29 |
I'm not sure of what he has done to be honest. All he told me was he is seeing a leak, (a small one) from the connection of the filter to the carb. It might very well be a alignment issue as someone has suggested. At least that's my optimism showing through again. Sorry for the mis-understanding, my mechanic wasn't suggesting I spend 800-1200 on the carb, that was the quotes he got from the local parts store I believe, to which I question. He didn't see that as a option as well, he was suggesting getting another one from the junk yard and useing it. But as I gather, they wouldn't be the same carb as I have on there now, correct? This carb was for especially for the motorhome?
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It can be difficult to get the line to seat properly if the carb is bolted completely down when installing the line. I usually leave the carb loose so that it can move as the line trys to align itself. Once the line is connected and tight, I get fuel to the line to and check for leaks before bolting down the carb. I hope he didn't over torque yours trying to stop the leak. If it was misaligned, he may have messed up the flare on the line and/or the flare on the filter fitting. That would need a new line and filter fitting or you may be able to use a copper flare washer on the line.
I also agree with the others, find a new mechanic a.s.a.p.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137399 is a reply to message #137394] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 21:54 |
Surbo
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| GMC Cruse wrote on Wed, 03 August 2011 21:39 |
| tgeiger wrote on Wed, 03 August 2011 21:29 |
I'm not sure of what he has done to be honest. All he told me was he is seeing a leak, (a small one) from the connection of the filter to the carb. It might very well be a alignment issue as someone has suggested. At least that's my optimism showing through again. Sorry for the mis-understanding, my mechanic wasn't suggesting I spend 800-1200 on the carb, that was the quotes he got from the local parts store I believe, to which I question. He didn't see that as a option as well, he was suggesting getting another one from the junk yard and useing it. But as I gather, they wouldn't be the same carb as I have on there now, correct? This carb was for especially for the motorhome?
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It can be difficult to get the line to seat properly if the carb is bolted completely down when installing the line. I usually leave the carb loose so that it can move as the line trys to align itself. Once the line is connected and tight, I get fuel to the line to and check for leaks before bolting down the carb. I hope he didn't over torque yours trying to stop the leak. If it was misaligned, he may have messed up the flare on the line and/or the flare on the filter fitting. That would need a new line and filter fitting or you may be able to use a copper flare washer on the line.
I also agree with the others, find a new mechanic a.s.a.p.
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He probably did not replace or lost, or did not install correctly, the nylon washer on the end of the filter housing.
Bob Drewes in SESD
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| Re: [GMCnet] Carb solutions [message #137400 is a reply to message #137385] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 21:58 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:29 PM, tom geiger <tgeiger@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure of what he has done to be honest. All he told me was he is
> seeing a leak, (a small one) from the connection of the filter to the carb.
> ...
This the the common problem point. The threads of the filter can onto the
front of the carb are very fine. I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on the
mechanic's back about it because it might have been leaking for a while,
especially if a leak up there was the reason for replacing the fuel line.
But there are ways to repair the issue, as others have said. My
recommendation is to have your mechanic remove the carb and send it to Dick
Paterson for overhaul and repair. And if he stripped the threads, he should
pay over and above what that overhaul costs, for example to buy the proper
replacement core.
> This was for especially for the motorhome?
>
Yes. The carb was configured solely for this application, and only a couple
of part numbers will work. Nobody has been able to figure out what they did
in the inner passages of the thing to make it unique, but nobody (even Dick
Paterson) has been able to make a non-motorhome carb work as well.
Rick "wandering through" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137408 is a reply to message #137389] |
Wed, 03 August 2011 23:19 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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From your response, I understand the leak is between the filter housing and the carb. There is a white or almost clear plastic gasket that goes in there. I think it might be made out of nylon. I'll be he lost it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137412 is a reply to message #137367] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 00:39 |
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Wait you are paying someone to work on a carb? These things aren't so hard to work on. Should just get a copy of the bible (technicians manual) and give it a go yourself. With the money you save you can take a trip! Heck for 1,000 you can get yourself a Howell fuel injection system and dump the carb all together...
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Carb solutions [message #137414 is a reply to message #137400] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 02:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Rick, I believe that there is available a replacement fitting for the Qjet
inlet filter housing. It has been a while since I have used one. They
consist of a 2 part selftapping casting that cuts new threads when it is
permanently installed. The second part then screws into the first and is
sealed with a good fuel proof O ring. I believe that they were made by
Tomco. It will fix the stripped threads if it is the carb that he stripped
out. Old pot metal carbs get crumbly.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Richard Denney <rwdenney@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:29 PM, tom geiger <tgeiger@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm not sure of what he has done to be honest. All he told me was he is
> > seeing a leak, (a small one) from the connection of the filter to the
> carb.
> > ...
>
>
> This the the common problem point. The threads of the filter can onto the
> front of the carb are very fine. I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on the
> mechanic's back about it because it might have been leaking for a while,
> especially if a leak up there was the reason for replacing the fuel line.
> But there are ways to repair the issue, as others have said. My
> recommendation is to have your mechanic remove the carb and send it to Dick
> Paterson for overhaul and repair. And if he stripped the threads, he should
> pay over and above what that overhaul costs, for example to buy the proper
> replacement core.
>
>
> > This was for especially for the motorhome?
> >
>
> Yes. The carb was configured solely for this application, and only a couple
> of part numbers will work. Nobody has been able to figure out what they did
> in the inner passages of the thing to make it unique, but nobody (even Dick
> Paterson) has been able to make a non-motorhome carb work as well.
>
> Rick "wandering through" Denney
>
> --
> '73 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137418 is a reply to message #137367] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 06:11 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I can help. You did not state what motor or year you have. I have a carb (78,403) and KC is not very far. If you can wait,,,I'm from KC and visit several times each year. As for repair. Cliff Quadrajets,,,he only does qjets. Thats all, nothing else. He can repai it.,,,,PL www.cliffshighperformance.com
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137419 is a reply to message #137367] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 06:15 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
Karma: 0
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I'm sorry. I didn't put where I am,,,,60 miles east of Columbia,,,,,PL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Carb solutions [message #137447 is a reply to message #137367] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 09:16 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Tom,
I didn't see where you mentioned which engine you have in your GMC, is it a
455 or 403. The carbs are NOT the same!
Also I did not see where you mentioned where you lived; if you live in
California and your coach is registered there the carb has a different part
number from the one for the rest of the states.
Sending the carb to Dick Patterson is a terrific idea, BUT you will have to
make sure that the top and body are not warped before you send it to him. If
it is warped he can't rebuild it. Dick can be contacted on +1 (705) 325-4554
or dick@paterson-gmc.com to find out how to check it. You can also explain
what's wrong with yours to see if he can fix the leak.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of tom geiger
Ok, I got another phone call from my mechanic. He said he had replaced the
hard fuel line up to the carb and now he believes he has stripped out the
connection on the front of the carb, so now we have a fuel leak on that
connection. He says he can't tap it out...I've been told different by
others if he is able to use a bottom tap. Anyhow he has priced a new Quad
carb, a little pricey. 800-1200 dollars for the carb...say what!!
He says if he could get a used Quad that he could transfer the parts over to
the new (used) carb. My other source of information (80 miles away), is
saying get rid of the Quad and go to a new Edlebrock high temp carb
replacement, to which he has done on many of old Quad carbed motorhomes.
This guy use to work on motorhomes in Colorado and had did upgrades to these
old motorhomes all the time in Colorado. Some guidance for someone who is
getting a little frustrated with this situation, since I have not yet got
to use this coach this year. This mechanic started working on this
motorcoach back in March and I'm still getting these kind of calls from him.
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Carb solutions [message #137516 is a reply to message #137367] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 19:10 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Sorry guys, I should have mentioned it's a 455. It had just been rebuilt when I bought the rig. What my mechanic was doing was replacing the hard line because it had been crimped when the engine was re-installed after the rebuild. So it could very well be that he had missed a washer in the installation of the new line and filter, or a mis=alignment of the connection. I have not been down to where it is since he started on this so I don't know what he has done exactly.
I'm planning on going down this weekend. Would there be a tapping kit and flare filter along with the plastic washer that I can buy before I go down? He is down at lake Pomme de Terre, and I don't think he has immediate access to tools and parts as I do up in KC. I plan on going down and working with him myself to get this fixed. Any ideas of what I need to purchase to get this done?
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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