Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Mondello Cooling Restrictors (in leu of thermostat)
| Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #134310] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 10:37  |
petemosss
Messages: 221
Registered: August 2008
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Karma: 0
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So sorry I never had the opportunity to meet Mr. Mondello. Did any of you who knew him ever recall him mentioning using these restictors in the GMC?
Pete
74 Canyon Lands 26' "Emery"
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| Re: Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #134634 is a reply to message #134310] |
Thu, 14 July 2011 18:15  |
petemosss
Messages: 221
Registered: August 2008
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Thanks Gene and David,
I guess that speaks volumes especially in this day of limited thermostat choices. Living in No. Florida it only gets really cold but 2-3 days a year.
Are there any other (Non-Jims) must have 455 goodies when placing an order with Mondello?
LOL No heads, thinking gaskets, etc.
Pete
Pete
74 Canyon Lands 26' "Emery"
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| Re: Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #134638 is a reply to message #134634] |
Thu, 14 July 2011 18:37 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| petemosss wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 18:15 |
Thanks Gene and David,
I guess that speaks volumes especially in this day of limited thermostat choices. Living in No. Florida it only gets really cold but 2-3 days a year.
Are there any other (Non-Jims) must have 455 goodies when placing an order with Mondello?
LOL No heads, thinking gaskets, etc.
Pete
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Pete,
If you are planning to pull the intake -- consider Mondello VT-581, valley tray, $39. In their online catalog it is under gaskets. One of our GMCers makes one similar -- but not sure of availability.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251806 is a reply to message #134313] |
Mon, 09 June 2014 03:19 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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here is a picture of the washers
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-chemicals-and-tools/p54962-mondello-washers.html
erf
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher
wrote:
> when I got my new engine from Mondello
>
> they would only warranty the engine if we used a restrictor in place of a
> thermostat
>
> they say, thermostats kill more engines than you would know
>
> and
> the engines run at 180 what ever you do
>
> JWID
> gene
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:37 AM, pete wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> So sorry I never had the opportunity to meet Mr. Mondello. Did any of you
>> who knew him ever recall him mentioning using these restictors in the GMC?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pete
>> 74 Canyon Lands 26' "Emery"
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251841 is a reply to message #251825] |
Mon, 09 June 2014 17:57 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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what a terrible ides.
restrictors? Really?
are you driving a drag car?
Use a good thermostat, if you are having cooling problems, it not the thermostat, it's the cooling system.
as far as the old wives tale about water flowing too fast to cool?
The probelem is the thermostat is an engineered restriction, It keeps the water in the engine under pressure reducing steam pockets.
There is no such thing as too much flow through a radiator, well until you start heating the coolant from friction.
If you're running the wrong thermostat in a SBC chev that doesn't have any bypass, you need to drill a hole in it to allow a little coolant flow, I have 2 1/4" holes in my Vettes stat and it's too much, barely gets warm.
I'd recommend 1 1/4" hole
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251852 is a reply to message #251806] |
Mon, 09 June 2014 20:28 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Tell me how a restrictor compensates for varying ambient air temps? Crossing the US, a coach could easily see anywhere from mid 40s all the way into the 100s in deg F. One specific size restrictor certainly isn't going to work best under that wide a range of air temps. A thermostat provides a variable restriction to suit the operating conditions what more could you ask for?
I believe that Mondello's recommendation was directed towards race engines, as that is what his main business was.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Jun 9, 2014, at 4:19 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
here is a picture of the washers
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-chemicals-and-tools/p54962-mondello-washers.html
erf
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher
wrote:
> when I got my new engine from Mondello
>
> they would only warranty the engine if we used a restrictor in place of a
> thermostat
>
> they say, thermostats kill more engines than you would know
>
> and
> the engines run at 180 what ever you do
>
> JWID
> gene
>
>
>
>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:37 AM, pete wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> So sorry I never had the opportunity to meet Mr. Mondello. Did any of you
>> who knew him ever recall him mentioning using these restictors in the GMC?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pete
>> 74 Canyon Lands 26' "Emery"
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251866 is a reply to message #251852] |
Mon, 09 June 2014 22:17 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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do as you want
tell me now many engines are destroyed by stuck thermostats..
me,i just want an engine that
- never fails
- always runs at 180
- is not controlled by a $3 item
you just do as you want
i will go with mr. mondello
]
erf
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Les Burt wrote:
> Tell me how a restrictor compensates for varying ambient air temps?
> Crossing the US, a coach could easily see anywhere from mid 40s all the way
> into the 100s in deg F. One specific size restrictor certainly isn't going
> to work best under that wide a range of air temps. A thermostat provides a
> variable restriction to suit the operating conditions what more could you
> ask for?
>
> I believe that Mondello's recommendation was directed towards race
> engines, as that is what his main business was.
>
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2014, at 4:19 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>
> here is a picture of the washers
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-chemicals-and-tools/p54962-mondello-washers.html
>
> erf
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher
> wrote:
>
>> when I got my new engine from Mondello
>>
>> they would only warranty the engine if we used a restrictor in place of a
>> thermostat
>>
>> they say, thermostats kill more engines than you would know
>>
>> and
>> the engines run at 180 what ever you do
>>
>> JWID
>> gene
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:37 AM, pete wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So sorry I never had the opportunity to meet Mr. Mondello. Did any of
> you
>>> who knew him ever recall him mentioning using these restictors in the
> GMC?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Pete
>>> 74 Canyon Lands 26' "Emery"
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>> -------
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
>> Alternator Protection Cable
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251867 is a reply to message #251866] |
Tue, 10 June 2014 00:36 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Should you live in a cool climate, you will find that the thermostats will warm up the engine sooner.
Also if you will do a one minute warm up and drive it slowly, the engine will warm faster and avoid wear on valve stems and rings that get effected by the rich fuel wash of oil.
The restricters work well as it simulates the opening of a thermostat when it opens fully.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251873 is a reply to message #134310] |
Tue, 10 June 2014 07:44 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Oh Boy, So much to uncover and cover up again....
Let's start with (only for those that don't know) the fact that the engine thermostat only controls how cold the engine will run but not how hot.
Now, in dynoland engines are cooled by water cooled heat exchangers that are very different than automotive radiators. In this world, engines are seldom run without anything in the thermostat location. Sometimes a restrictor like the Mondello plate is used but more often a stock thermostat is damaged to cause it to stay at full open.
Why do this when there is a very expensive cell control system that can control the engine coolant to a very small variation?
Simple answer: If the coolant flow is unrestricted, it does not behave well.
There are two undesirable issues that are common.
One is erosion of the engine cooling jacket. Yes, this can happen in a passcar engine. I have seen cases where the casting wall of a cylinder or combustion chamber has become porous enough to leak coolant through the casting wall. When sectioned to reveal the interior of the cooling jacket, the damage is usually startling.
The other and often more difficult to detect is what people that work in fluids call channeling. This can happen a high Reynolds numbers (a dimensionless number used to describe flow characteristics) flow regimes. Low Reynolds numbers are laminar flow areas - like a slow moving stream. High Reynolds numbers are turbulent flow. While a turbulent flow may be better for cooling because it will strip the laminar boundary of the surface, it can can get so high that the coolant is no longer interested in slowing down enough to mess with the laminar boundary. In this case the engine could behave as if it were over temperature, but the coolant temperatures were lower than expected - until you slowed it down - Then Over Heat.
I suspect that Joe Mondello was fighting these two things in engines that were built up for racing and neither of these apply to motorhome engines (unless one is out to challenge the LSR). But another advantage he could have been counting on even on a coach application was the slower warm up would have made the break-in running a slower process and less likely to damage closely fit components.
Matt - the refugee from Dynoland
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251878 is a reply to message #251866] |
Tue, 10 June 2014 08:35 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Mr ERFisher wrote on Mon, 09 June 2014 22:17do as you want
tell me now many engines are destroyed by stuck thermostats..
....
I have this really trick new fangled instrument. It's pretty cutting edge but thats how I roll.
I call it a 'Temperature Gauge' It measures the engine water temperature and displays it in an analog fashion.
I only have to look at it from time to time to get a good idea of how the engine is doing.
For the really paranoid there is another invention called a 'warning light' it comes on when the temperature exceeds a preset threshold. pretty trick eh?
Use your restrictor, just don't tell me it runs at 180 ALL the time.. you and I know thats not true.
I have mondello parts in my engine, I understand his / their mindset. a restrictor is not better, it's just less likely to cause them warranty work.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251883 is a reply to message #251878] |
Tue, 10 June 2014 09:33 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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So let me add some purely anecdotal, unscientific, real life experience. I go nuts when the coach runs too hot. So we went whole hog, aluminum radiator oil and trans coolers with fans, maybe a 16o degree thermostat.
Even pulling a trailer, it never got above 200, it ran rough at low rpms, and I had no heat.
Put a 190 thermostat in and every single aspect worked. I had heat, it idles and pulled from low rpm better. No question about it.
It would have to be a pretty neat restrictor to achieve those results....
JWID
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mondello Cooling Restrictors [message #251884 is a reply to message #251883] |
Tue, 10 June 2014 09:40 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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Neil wrote on Tue, 10 June 2014 07:33So let me add some purely anecdotal, unscientific, real life experience. I go nuts when the coach runs too hot. So we went whole hog, aluminum radiator oil and trans coolers with fans, maybe a 16o degree thermostat.
Even pulling a trailer, it never got above 200, it ran rough at low rpms, and I had no heat.
Put a 190 thermostat in and every single aspect worked. I had heat, it idles and pulled from low rpm better. No question about it.
It would have to be a pretty neat restrictor to achieve those results....
JWID
Wow. It's almost like the GM engineers knew what they were doing............ ;o)
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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